Helloween Guitarrists

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Who's the best Helloween Guitarrist of all times

Kai Hansen
33
53%
Michael Weikath
11
18%
Roland Grapow
8
13%
Sascha Gerstner
10
16%
 
Total votes: 62

Ragehead91
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:57 am

Well, if you listen to the song very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very closely you can hear the similarity, but only if you listen very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very cloesly.

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:46 am

Similar, sure, I think that can be said for many metal riffs. There is only so much one can do with a riff.

I’m looking at the tabs and the songs and it definitely fails to be a matching pattern even if the note lengths are matched up and we take the dotted 8th notes helloween uses and make them 4th or 8th notes that judas uses. They both use the same 5 notes in and a common root structure but that’s about it as the execution and note patterns are very different. The little aafgcb root notes are really something I don’t think people get to own since it’s a basic chord structure.

The rant might be mute since the person said that a long time ago and is gone but it seems to be a common thing where people like to call a song stolen when it's simply a shared chord progression, rhythm, scale, or music style

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:39 am

Yeah. It is the same thing with the whole Satriani Vs Coldplay thing. Do the songs sound similar? Yes. Do they have the same chord progression? Yes. Can you really say it is stolen? Well, no. Shit like that just happens sometimes. There was so much music written and for a normal human it is simply impossible to know everything. So it can happen that you come up with something, think it is original but was already done to some point in the past. That is a thing that also sometimes happens unconsciously. Like for example you walk through the mall and you hear that song playing. You like it but you forget it where fast. But the melody somehow gets saved in your subconsciousness. Then you somehow end up in a band and you write a song. You thing about riffs and melodys. Your subconsciousness makes you remember the melody of that song you heard ages ago. You think it is the greatest thing ever and you record the song. You release it and someone tells you that it sounds very similar to a song that he heard before. You look that song up and realize that it really is similar. Shit like this happens. Are there cases of plagiarism in music? Yes! Does someone remember Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" Vs. Queen's "Under Pressure"?

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:06 am

True but there is a difference between a song sounding similar and ripping off a song, like say with sonata arctica and Stratovarius they both have songs that sound similiar however they have never ripped each other off.

However in Vanilla ice's case he clearly ripped off the under pressure beat and tried to claim it as his own.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:32 am

Yeah. I saw a clip of that interview in which he tried to explain that they were different because he added a additional note and shit like that :lol:

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:13 am

I know, almost as if he was hoping we were stupid enough to believe it.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:15 am

I think nowdays he says that it was a joke all along and that he was just fooling around in that interview...Yeah...

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:19 am

You see I don't mind if a band admits they got a beat or a riff from another band however it's completely another thing to blatantly steal something like that and claim that it's your own.

Helloween has songs that sound similiar to other songs people do however I've never seen then steal the beat from another song as vanilla ice clearly did.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:22 am

I have a qestion about that: In his more recent Gamma Ray Albums Kai Hansen often, well, "borrows" riffs from Judas Priest. Has he ever made any kind of statement about that? I can't imagine him stealing from Priest but then again, I don't know him personaly.

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:39 pm

well at least with the guitar pro files there is a extra 8th note in the ice ice baby pattern. it's such a simple rythem and bassline that i can hardly call that a feat of writing that should be anything more than public domain.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:56 pm

Doesn't change the fact that he simply stole it and said he came up with it which is simply wrong.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Mormegil » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:04 pm

icecab21 wrote:wtf was the person thinking who said victom of fate was the riff from breaking the law? The guitar playing in those two riffs is definitly not the same.
Well, that was a LONG time ago when I said it and I've sort of gotten over it.
..But you can't just go like "what was he thinking," when it's very obvious they are similar, like it or not.

Victim Of Fate goes from E minor, if I remember correctly, but I changed it to A minor, to make comparing it to Breaking The Law easier:

Image

I rest my case. :)

EDIT: I checked it and I was wrong, Victim Of Fate goes from Am too. :P

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:32 pm

simular yes, but its a very different thing to say he just straight up played breaking the law like that one post up there said. those tabs don't match up at all. it is the same chords and some notes hit the same on certain places but the not lenths are very different, there are many places where they do not go to the same note, and in breaking the law they don't return to notes. i cant read tabs but i think 023023 is a lot different than 000200300200 in terms of what the guitarist plays.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Mormegil » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:28 pm

They have differences, yes, but it still bugs me when I listen to Victim Of Fate. I always get the feeling that someone was just jamming along to Breaking The Law, changed a riff a bit and decided to call it his own. Oh well, luckily the Kiske-version of Victim Of Fate has that eargasmic "you will burn in HEEEEEELL!" -part that makes up for it. :)

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:33 pm

Kiske saved those 2 re-recorded songs from pure suckage. Kai Hansen can't sing to save his life. PERIOD.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Mormegil » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:41 pm

Check out also Kiske's version of How Many Tears from Live In The UK -album. Hansen's version is nothing compared to that.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:49 pm

I personally have no problem with Kai's voice, but then again everyone is different.
I don't know about the Judas priest riffs however I did see an interview in which Kai talks about the Majestic album and how the first track has a sort of Sabbath bloody Sabbath feel to it.
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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:40 am

I think that with metal the riffs are so simple that a variation of one really has to be considered a new one. I’m sure millions of songs have the same rhythms and scales and chord progressions, it just seems silly to have to find the first time a chord progression or scale or rhythm was used in music and give credit to whoever did that. I think most metal rhythms and riffs are what one would find on the first page of a rhythm book and are very introductory patterns.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by stratoplayer » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:37 am

Ragehead91 wrote:Kiske saved those 2 re-recorded songs from pure suckage. Kai Hansen can't sing to save his life. PERIOD.
Have you ever seen Gamma Ray live?¡?¡?¡?
Close your eyes and try to remember, destroyed lullabies of days gone by
Close your eyes on the edge of forever, a chance to dream fast asleep your nightmare ends

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:41 am

ragehead says the same thing about a lot of other singers that can cleanly hit the notes they sing for as well.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Chris P. Bacon » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:05 am

icecab21 wrote:ragehead says the same thing about a lot of other singers that can cleanly hit the notes they sing for as well.
dat der boy ice tracktor, whats'is name i reckon I plumb forgot, but me and him we learnded da spellin' together in da ol' one room schoolhouse when we's a growin' up, i reckon he dropped out a year before i did but we boths come a long way, even those he's one o' dem sissy city boys nah!

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:05 am

Well everyone has different tastes, personally I have found nothing wrong with Kai's voice and actually prefer the gruff edge he has to it and would take over all the Michael kiske's on this planet.

This is just an opinion however
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AAAAAAAAAA
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:07 am

hiro23 wrote:This is just an opinion however
:!:


...




too easy :lol:

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:07 pm

stratoplayer wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:Kiske saved those 2 re-recorded songs from pure suckage. Kai Hansen can't sing to save his life. PERIOD.
Have you ever seen Gamma Ray live?¡?¡?¡?
I've listend to all the live albums, all the Gamma Ray Albums with him on vocals and I even have their recent DVD. He can't sing. There is no other band that needs a new singer more than Gamma Ray.

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:03 pm

What do you mean by can't sing? He hits his notes, what more is there to singing than hiting notes?

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:11 pm

I don't care if you can hit the notes if your voice sounds like shit. Listen to "Walls of Jericho" and you know what I mean. it is just horrible. Or the original version of Victem of Fate.

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icecab21
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:14 pm

It’s ridiculous to say people can't sing just because you don't like the tone of their voice.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Ragehead:the thing is there are a lot of people who like Kai as a singer, it's cool if you don't like him, as I said I personally have no problem with his voice.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:56 pm

Okay, I can argue about his singing in Gamma Ray since he did become better but:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynm1uKBNiPE
How can ANYBODY call this good singing? This ist just Horrible and ruins the whole album for me!

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:08 am

Hey I like that song
metal feeds the beast

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