Stratovarius Community

I probably just watched the dumbest Nightline report:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/print?id=1815838

First off, ABC has been getting "very" religious, filing in reports that deal with religion, Christianity, and other related news.

Just to summarize, this scholar has historical evidence that there were two messiahs: Jesus and John the Baptist. Let me just hit up on a few highlights, and add my own commentary in there.

To begin, I'm going to kinda lean you in on this quote. Basically, Tabor found a tomb that contained an ossuary (box of deceased bones) of James, son of Jospeh, brother of Jesus.

And it's with regard to Jesus' family that Tabor levels his most controversial claim.

"I'm ready to let the average reader know what we scholars actually discuss. And if it's shocking, it's shocking. You don't have to accept it. Jesus had a father."

Oh, you don't say...maybe his name is GOD! No, this guy said he has an earthly father:

"They begin to call Jesus, 'bar Pantera,' son of Pantera," Tabor said. "And we even have an early Greek source. He's a philosopher named Kelsus, who seems to know a bit more about it. He says that Jesus was the son of a man named Pantera, who either was or became a Roman soldier."

But what source did Kelsus use, a Gnostic Gospel? One of the things I have learned about the Gospels is that they aren't historical documents; they're more propaganda material. But, does that make the cannonical Gospel's false? No, the cannonical Gospels were reviewed throughly by early church authorities a long time ago. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked, moving on...

If Tabor's book is controversial on the birth of Jesus, it also raises questions about Jesus' early ministry. Tabor suggests there were two messiahs, not one.

What!? You've got to be kidding me...

"I like to surprise with my answers," said Tabor. "Are you ready for this? This is John's area but you know text-wise, we have no record of John baptizing here near Ein Kerem and Suba. He's up along the Jordan River in the Jordanian wilderness. The person we have a record of baptizing here is Jesus, Jesus the Baptist."

What record!? You don't give a damn thing about records...

"It hit me, how this would have electrified the country," Tabor said. "You see, all these predictions of two Messiahs, and we've got two Messiahs on the ground, operating, one in the north -- John the priest -- one in the south -- Jesus the king. And they're baptizing thousands of people."

...huh...you...lost me...

Carson, however, strongly disagrees. "Now the texts do not say they did it [baptism] at the same place at the same time. If they did, it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. In other words I don't think the Suba cave adds anything to the account in that respect ... Merely numbers of people being baptized by itself doesn't say very much about the relationship of the two men or that they were both Messiahs or anything like that."

ok...Carson's making more sense now.

In addition to Tabor's claims that Jesus had an earthly father and a fellow Messiah, his book also argues it was Jesus' intention to build a dynasty on earth. Tabor says that it was Jesus' half-brother James who would inherit the title role of dynastical king after the crucifixion.

Where the hell does this guy get his sources?

While I was watching the report, somewhere Tabor was talking about that "in the book of Hebrews it emphasizes the word 'messengers', as more than one." I did a search for "messengers" in Hebrews, and came up with nothing. Although, I don't think I was paying full attention to that part.

Anyway, my final comment about this guy: DOUCHE!!! Determining Jesus' life and role by digging up earthly things isn't gonna get you very far.

Yeah, but many people won't believe anything other than earthly.

The way I see it, if someone is capable of wilful ignorance to the point that they believe the Earth is 6000 years old, they can believe anything and nothing you can say or do will dissuade them. Religion and academic science or history are seperate things. Trying to prove one by using the other is pointless and futile.

NeonVomit wrote:Yeah, but many people won't believe anything other than earthly.

The way I see it, if someone is capable of wilful ignorance to the point that they believe the Earth is 6000 years old, they can believe anything and nothing you can say or do will dissuade them. Religion and academic science or history are seperate things. Trying to prove one by using the other is pointless and futile.

Indeed, but one of the problems I'm having with this guy's methods is he's using scientific expermients (testing the ground, artifacts, etc.) to prove religious theories. Most of the time, you can't really prove some certain portions of Christianity, like the time between Jesus' adolescents and the beginning of his ministry.

Please, forgiven me for this...


I only believe in Jensus and Alex Staropoli is his prophet

@Neorave, atheism&rejecting God is the "In" thing now. I believe one day alot of people will get a surprise. I think, as a Christian, you know what that will be. I prefer not to argue with people, but let people find out on their own just how powerful a force the Almighty will be. Things are coming together in the world right now&I am not ashamed to say I think there are forces out there that nobody can understand. But, I believe to ridicule, or reject these things is foolhardy, even though I do believe in free will&a person has the right to choose their own belief&path.