IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

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Is Iran's nuclear capability a concern?

Hell Yes--it might cause WWIII!!!
11
23%
Somewhat
8
17%
Not at this point--just watch&see!
9
19%
None at all--Ever!
6
13%
The World should just mind its own damn business!!!
13
28%
 
Total votes: 47

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browneyedgirl
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IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:51 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5365286.stm

Is Iran's nuclear ambitions benign, or something to be concerned about?
Are people paranoid, or is Iran simply trying to modernize its energy aims?

IMO,there is nothing to be concerned with at this point, but I do not think it would hurt for the world to "keep a watchful eye" on them!
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratobabius » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:56 pm

I agree with you beg.Not much can be done now...
A way to calm things down would be to appoint some people from the UN to watch over the procedure at Iran, and know what happens with the waste which could be used for weapons...
But I guess, it's nowhere near as simple as I think it is...

EDIT: The way I said though, both sides would be happy, the west would keep an eye on the east and the east would have the nuclear power they want...

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Stratofanius » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:13 pm

It's ridiculous how USA can have as much nuclear weapons as they want but all the other countrys can't... :roll:
I voted for: "None at all--Ever!"

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Shurik » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:50 pm

Iran wants a nuke, it's clear, it's the reason for all their advancements in nuclear technology. It's not a matter of who has the most nukes, it's the matter of who can't have a nuke. A muslim fanatic who believes in apocalyptic prophecies and who wants to do everything to fullfill them (an iranian president) should not have a nuke.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Stealth » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:54 pm

Well, the US has the CIA and a lot of manipulative governmental strategies that they cover up, which in the long run (if you read about all that they did in, for example, Latin America throughout the years) turns out to be much more harmful than this so-called Iranian plan for world destruction.

My vote: "None at all - ever"
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratobabius » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:51 pm

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... TE=DEFAULT

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/ ... TE=DEFAULT

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:33 pm

Iran definately has something in mind, but most of it is just sabre-rattling for political purposes. I seriously doubt they'd do anything too stupid, but the world needs to pay attention to them.

North Korea, now there's a real threat.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:15 am

Stealth wrote:Well, the US has the CIA and a lot of manipulative governmental strategies that they cover up, which in the long run (if you read about all that they did in, for example, Latin America throughout the years) turns out to be much more harmful than this so-called Iranian plan for world destruction.My vote: "None at all - ever"
Iran has repeatedly and publicly called for the destruction of Israel, and distorting the issue by rewording Ahmandinejad's statements from actual threats to Israel to 'alleged threats for world destruction' won't wash with me.

And, as always, all problems it seems point back to the US. I have an old friend that is now a US Attorney for south Florida that put Manuel Noriega away for forty years.

The US Dept of Justice frequently extradites and then prosecutes murderous drug warlords from Mexico and South America, and also actively engages with other governments in that region with drug eradication operations.

Perhaps if you'd ever had your best friend die from a cocaine-related overdose, then you might be more appreciative of those efforts, as opposed to wearing one of those trendy little Che Guevera t-shirts.

I think that liberal viewpoints of Iran's intentions
are ridiculously dismissive of the actual reality on the ground. If Iran's nuclear program was for civilian purposes, much of it would not be buried deep in bombproof bunkers, and scattered across multiple locations.

Moreover, the United States and Israel would not have had to develop contingency plans for taking out those facilities with GBU-28 Penetrator series bunker busting bombs.

North Korea is also a threat, but will do little in the way of actual war at this point, since the calvary (Chinese Army) probably won't be coming to their rescue this time, as they did during the Korean War. Even then, the combined forces of China and DPRK did not achieve victory, as ROK is still a free country today. Moreover, other governments, such as Japan and Australia are also getting tired of Kim and his problems.

My vote was most definitely Iran will help to cause WWIII. I also strongly dislike the fact that Ahmandinejad was even permitted to enter the United States, as he should have been arrested on the spot for terror sponsoring activities.

It's way past time for the UN to get out of the US and go back to Geneva, where Ahmandinejad and his gang, as well as Bin Laden, hide a great deal of their own money.

Why should the US continue to provide 25% of the operating budget capital to an anti-American organization such as the UN?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:23 am

You really want WWIII to break out, don't you? It's like you can't wait...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

I do not think miditek wants WWIII, he is just a realist.

I watched 60 Minutes&the interview with the Prez of Iran, and I did not get good vibes from him at all--he was very caustic&very outspoken about his dislike for USA. Of course, thats not illegal, he can dislike any country he wants, I guess. However, I do not blame Israel at all for being very worried about Iran's intentions because I gathered Iran's leader does not have fond feelings about Israel, either&they are pretty much at Iran's backdoor.

Like I said, let them pursue their nuclear energy thing, but keep a tight watch on them&inspections often.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:34 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:I do not think miditek wants WWIII, he is just a realist.

I watched 60 Minutes&the interview with the Prez of Iran, and I did not get good vibes from him at all--he was very caustic&very outspoken about his dislike for USA. Of course, thats not illegal, he can dislike any country he wants, I guess. However, I do not blame Israel at all for being very worried about Iran's intentions because I gathered Iran's leader does not have fond feelings about Israel, either&they are pretty much at Iran's backdoor.

Like I said, let them pursue their nuclear energy thing, but keep a tight watch on them&inspections often.
Of course Iran have a right to nuclear energy. Every nation does, I believe. But yeah, with an extremist in office, one gets worried.

I miss the days of Khatami. The guy was the best thing to happen to Iran in years. He actually spoke a lot of sense, and was very popular with the younger people of Iran, and seemed to be looking to the future.

But then, how can you decide whether a country 'deserves' nuclear weapons?

I just wish it was possible to rid the entire world of them. I so truly wish that.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:08 pm

NeonVomit wrote:You really want WWIII to break out, don't you? It's like you can't wait...
My advice to Ahmandinejad would be to be careful what he wishes for, as he is likely to get it.

Do you think that Churchill and Roosevelt wanted to see WWII? Of course not, but they knew then that war was coming, and at least for me, I can see WWIII clearly on the horizon.

Why be an apologist for a lunatic like Ahmandinejad? He has clearly stated his intentions, and Hitler did the same thing when he published Mein Kampf. Don't you realize that many of these fanatics actually use Nazi Germany as a role model? Surely you realize that, so why justify their bad behavior?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:03 pm

miditek wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:You really want WWIII to break out, don't you? It's like you can't wait...
My advice to Ahmandinejad would be to be careful what he wishes for, as he is likely to get it.

Do you think that Churchill and Roosevelt wanted to see WWII? Of course not, but they knew then that war was coming, and at least for me, I can see WWIII clearly on the horizon.

Why be an apologist for a lunatic like Ahmandinejad? He has clearly stated his intentions, and Hitler did the same thing when he published Mein Kampf. Don't you realize that many of these fanatics actually use Nazi Germany as a role model? Surely you realize that, so why justify their bad behavior?
Play the apologist card, smart.

I'm not an apologist for anyone. I simply don't think that bombing the hell out of anyone will achieve anything in the long term.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:02 pm

NeonVomit wrote:I'm not an apologist for anyone. I simply don't think that bombing the hell out of anyone will achieve anything in the long term.
What would work? Negotiations have failed with these people, and moreover, the UN once again proves its impotence and incompetence by not doing anything. Kofi Annan and his gang can't even agree on a strongly worded letter, let alone sanctions- Russia and China will see to that. With that being the case, it makes war with Iran inevitable.

I don't think that anyone, including President Bush, is calling for WWII-style city busting raids with 1,000+ bombers, but I would say that surgical strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities will be a reality before Bush leaves office. If the Israelis don't carry out the raids first, then the US most definitely will, but one way or the other, the plants will be taken out.

Ahmandinejad can have the sympathy of the entire world, and it won't make one bit of a difference. The days of his nuclear weapons program are numbered.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:06 pm

Oh dude, I can't belive it. Of course Iran's ambitions are a concern to the whole world. But on the other hand - bombing a country into the stone age (or whatever - even your so-called surgical strikes kill innocent people) doesn't help a damn thing. It only creates more hatred and violence. You all now, it's a vicious circle.
I miss the days of Khatami. The guy was the best thing to happen to Iran in years. He actually spoke a lot of sense, and was very popular with the younger people of Iran, and seemed to be looking to the future.
I agree with you, NV. The government of Khatami had some moderate influence. He wasn't to please the Mullahs, he listened to the younger and more reasonable generation in his country. Unfortunately, he is past....

I do not think miditek wants WWIII, he is just a realist.
I do not want to accuse anyone here, but miditek has pointed out his opinion clearly. In his opinion only war can solve international crisis. That's far from being realistic.
Why should the US continue to provide 25% of the operating budget capital to an anti-American organization such as the UN?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I seldom read such a cock-eyed and paradoxal comment before. Haha, that's such a bad joke, that it's even good again. Not the UN is anti-US, but the US government is ANTI UN!!!!!! And with this attitude, against almost the rest of the world.

Oh, and didn't Mr.Bush prove great evidences for being absolutely unrealistic, overbearing and short-sighted? Take a look at the situation in Iraq. Every day hundres of innocent people die, because Mr.Bush has underestimated the complicated situation of the muslim groups in Iraq. Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator, but his regime was much more better than what the Iraqi people are experiencing now.
So, what would be a long-term solution for Iran, eh? Oh, I know, I know: Killing every damn Arab in that country. Then there'd be no problems anymore.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:11 am

stratohawk wrote:Oh dude, I can't belive it. Of course Iran's ambitions are a concern to the whole world.
And we've seen some of the world's responses to the problem with Iran. "If you don't behave, we'll send you a strongly worded letter of reprimand!"
stratohawk wrote:But on the other hand - bombing a country into the stone age (or whatever - even your so-called surgical strikes kill innocent people) doesn't help a damn thing. It only creates more hatred and violence. You all now, it's a vicious circle.
Civilians always get killed in wars, particularly when the enemy chooses to hide amongst them! How ironic that a German, who's country has deliberately targeted and killed more civilians than any other country in history, wishes to lecture an American (of German descent) about collateral damage.

Lefties and liberals are of the opinion that nothing is worth fighting over- ever, regardless of the consequences. Okay, let's allow Iran to proceed, let them hand off nuclear weapons to terrorists, and let them use those weapons against the US. In the event of a mushroom cloud over New York or Washington, the retaliatory strikes launched by the United States will indeed kill tens of millions, or possibly hundreds of millions. Then, when that does happen, the surviving liberals should ask themselves, "was it worth it?"
I miss the days of Khatami. The guy was the best thing to happen to Iran in years. He actually spoke a lot of sense, and was very popular with the younger people of Iran, and seemed to be looking to the future.
stratohawk wrote:I agree with you, NV. The government of Khatami had some moderate influence. He wasn't to please the Mullahs, he listened to the younger and more reasonable generation in his country. Unfortunately, he is past....
That's the propoganda that Tehran wants you to believe. He never would have been allowed to assume power without the support of the ruling clerics. I am sure that Iran also stopped supporting terror groups, such as Hezbollah during that time. All of those Katyushas must have been beamed down from a Klingon or Romulan warship, right?
I do not think miditek wants WWIII, he is just a realist.
stratohawk wrote:I do not want to accuse anyone here, but miditek has pointed out his opinion clearly. In his opinion only war can solve international crisis. That's far from being realistic.
War of course is an option. Europe's idea of hiding though is really not much of a solution, either.
Why should the US continue to provide 25% of the operating budget capital to an anti-American organization such as the UN?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
stratohawk wrote:I seldom read such a cock-eyed and paradoxal comment before. Haha, that's such a bad joke, that it's even good again. Not the UN is anti-US, but the US government is ANTI UN!!!!!! And with this attitude, against almost the rest of the world.
When we have leaders such as Chavez and Ahmandinejad spouting off their vile rhetoric at the UN- in New York City, where the 9/11 attacks occurred, yes, it is absolutely way past time to take the rest of the garbage and throw it out.

In a way, Chavez's remarks are a good thing. If we see people like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi actually defending the president, it's safe to assume that even the opposition is now pissed off.

stratohawk wrote:Oh, and didn't Mr.Bush prove great evidences for being absolutely unrealistic, overbearing and short-sighted? Take a look at the situation in Iraq. Every day hundres of innocent people die, because Mr.Bush has underestimated the complicated situation of the muslim groups in Iraq. Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator, but his regime was much more better than what the Iraqi people are experiencing now..
So the insurgency is actually better than mustard gas being launched at Kurds or Iranians? Mi-24 Hind gunships and Mig fighters targeting Shias? Saddam's death squads squashing any that opposed him? Mass graves are still being found there.

Perhaps you forget that we had to establish no-fly zones over the northern, as well as southern, parts of the country.
stratohawk wrote:So, what would be a long-term solution for Iran, eh? Oh, I know, I know: Killing every damn Arab in that country. Then there'd be no problems anymore.
As always, Europe criticizes, and yet fails to do anything else. European style diplomacy has caused two world wars already, and apparently, it's appetite for appeasement will certainly go a long way towards contributing to the third. By the way, Iran is populated by Persians, not Arabs.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratobabius » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:01 am

miditek wrote: How ironic that a German, who's country has deliberately targeted and killed more civilians than any other country in history, wishes to lecture an American (of German descent) about collateral damage.
Perhaps they actually learned something after 2 wars...
miditek wrote:War of course is an option. Europe's idea of hiding though is really not much of a solution, either.
If I was a pessimist, I'd say that whatever we do it'll lead to war. And it should be the last option not the first...
miditek wrote:European style diplomacy has caused two world wars already...
US caused 2 wars in 3 years as far as I know,and they had their toll too...

And, lastly, why must we stick to the past so badly? This is what causes everything... "Oh, my great-great-great-great-great grandfather was killed by your great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I must kill you to avenge him..."

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:35 am

stratobabius wrote:
miditek wrote: How ironic that a German, who's country has deliberately targeted and killed more civilians than any other country in history, wishes to lecture an American (of German descent) about collateral damage.
stratobabius wrote:Perhaps they actually learned something after 2 wars...
Germany, being a pale comparison of its former self has learned very little during the interim years. Of all countries in Europe, Germany itself should realize that appeasement is not a viable solution.
Munich in 1938 is not very different from the EU and UN of 2006.
miditek wrote:War of course is an option. Europe's idea of hiding though is really not much of a solution, either.
stratobabius wrote:If I was a pessimist, I'd say that whatever we do it'll lead to war. And it should be the last option not the first...
What you said is 100% true and accurate. War should always be the last option. Unfortunately, Europe fails miserably in its inability to realize and acknowledge the implications of the threat that radical Islam has over the west.
miditek wrote:European style diplomacy has caused two world wars already...
stratobabius wrote:US caused 2 wars in 3 years as far as I know,and they had their toll too...
Radical Islam declared war upon America a long time ago, and its atrocities most definitely predate 9/11.

Before pointing fingers at the US for being the cause of two wars, perhaps you should consider the crimes of the Taliban/ai-Qaida and other terror sponsoring states.
stratobabius wrote:And, lastly, why must we stick to the past so badly? This is what causes everything... "Oh, my great-great-great-great-great grandfather was killed by your great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I must kill you to avenge him..."
Sorry, but the time that has passed does not include five generations of grandfathers. My grandfather held his own cousins prisoner of war during WWII, while my uncle actually fought against cousins and other relatives at Bastonge.

There is no valid reason for excusing Germany of its crimes, and should serve as a lesson to others about the dangers of fascism. If you really are Greek, then you should be well aware of what the Germans did to your own country.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:43 am

I don't say that military strikes are not an option. And I'd say that Iran is a much greater threat than Iraq to the rest of the world. But I despite all the people that take war as the first option, that ignore the fact that every civilian killed in war will inforce the vicious circle of violence, and that only belive in the bad side of mankind.
You don't understand it. Most of us Europeans have learned their lecture. What lead to two World Wars were the old structures and the greed for power of almost every single European, colonialist state. The reservation today and the attempt of making politics without weapons is one of the greatest achievements in history. YOU think it's a sign of weakness. I tell you, it is a fact of rationality and reason. The only problem is, that the rest of the world still thinks in other, more medieval types. Now that is the tension in what Europe tries to make politics today. The fact that Europe is still far away from speaking with one tongue is another problem, I'm aware of that.

Oh, and yes: Though I despited Saddam Hussein and his cruel leadership, at least the region was stable. I think what you want to ignore is that Iraq has become a nest for terrorists AFTER the US invaded the country. You ignore that the only constancy in Iraq is anarchy now. The country has gained NOTHING! New figures say that in two months about 6000 people are killed in Iraq these days. And many of these people are so violently tortured as it couldn't be worse under Saddam.
I'm sorry to ask, but do you speak German? You said you have German ancestors. I found this article on the website of the legitimate and reliable German newscast "tagesschau":
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldun ... 94,00.html

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:54 am

miditek wrote: There is no valid reason for excusing Germany of its crimes, and should serve as a lesson to others about the dangers of fascism. If you really are Greek, then you should be well aware of what the Germans did to your own country.
You narrow-minded bullheaded fool! Germany is far away from forgetting or ignoring it's past, it is faced with it every day. You don't live here, so you have NO FUCKING CLUE about it. And it seems like Germany is the only (or one of the VERY FEW) country in this world that deals with its violent past, that tries to go a path between compensation and building up trust and good relations with the old enemies.
Does the USA deal with all the cruelties they did to Native Americans? What about the British ages of Colonialism? I could tell you much more examples like that. But you would find excuses for all of them, I know.
You are one of the people that doesn't want to forgive. Forgivness doesn't mean to forget. We cannot undo the past, but we don't have to dig out the old conflicts again every day. We have to continue, and central Europe in itself lives in peace now for more than half a century.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:34 am

What everybody seems to have forgotten is that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon yet, The International Institute for Strategic Studies assess they will not have one in years. So keep your cool and give diplomacy a chance before risking the lives of civilians.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratobabius » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:36 am

miditek wrote:
stratobabius wrote:And, lastly, why must we stick to the past so badly? This is what causes everything... "Oh, my great-great-great-great-great grandfather was killed by your great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I must kill you to avenge him..."
Sorry, but the time that has passed does not include five generations of grandfathers. My grandfather held his own cousins prisoner of war during WWII, while my uncle actually fought against cousins and other relatives at Bastonge.
That was a figure of speech only... :wink:
miditek wrote:There is no valid reason for excusing Germany of its crimes, and should serve as a lesson to others about the dangers of fascism. If you really are Greek, then you should be well aware of what the Germans did to your own country.
Since my roots cover most of Eastern Europe you can be sure I know much about that. But again,what should I do about that? Stop speaking to every German I know?

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:43 pm

stratohawk wrote:I don't say that military strikes are not an option. And I'd say that Iran is a much greater threat than Iraq to the rest of the world. But I despite all the people that take war as the first option, that ignore the fact that every civilian killed in war will inforce the vicious circle of violence, and that only belive in the bad side of mankind.
Vicious cycles are nothing more than a liberal soundbite, in my opinion. Wars are going to continue until the end of days. People have the opportunity to do the right thing- which is to stand up to and fight against evil, or do nothing.
stratohawk wrote:You don't understand it. Most of us Europeans have learned their lecture. What lead to two World Wars were the old structures and the greed for power of almost every single European, colonialist state.
No, I don't believe that Europe has learned the lessons of history. How long did genocide go on in Bosnia and Kosovo until the west decided to intervene? It was the worst violence in Europe since WWII, and there are many other examples of butchery and thuggery that have gone unchecked since in other locations.

Appeasing thugs like Ahmandinejad accomplishes nothing, and makes the world a far more dangerous place. Did diplomacy contain Hitler? Of course not.
The simple reason why is that peace was not part of his plan, and the same can be said for Ahmandinejad.
stratohawk wrote:The reservation today and the attempt of making politics without weapons is one of the greatest achievements in history. YOU think it's a sign of weakness. I tell you, it is a fact of rationality and reason.
I'm certainly not the only one that would consider it a sign of weakness. Iran also considers it to be weakness as well, and the implications of what they think are far more significant than what I think.
stratohawk wrote:The only problem is, that the rest of the world still thinks in other, more medieval types. Now that is the tension in what Europe tries to make politics today. The fact that Europe is still far away from speaking with one tongue is another problem, I'm aware of that.
Europe has its share of problems, just as any other region would. It will never be truly unified- there are simply too many different nationalities, languages, and ethnic groups. It's not like the US, in the way that we have 50 states where everyone speaks the same common language.
stratohawk wrote:Oh, and yes: Though I despited Saddam Hussein and his cruel leadership, at least the region was stable. I think what you want to ignore is that Iraq has become a nest for terrorists AFTER the US invaded the country. You ignore that the only constancy in Iraq is anarchy now. The country has gained NOTHING! New figures say that in two months about 6000 people are killed in Iraq these days. And many of these people are so violently tortured as it couldn't be worse under Saddam.
How in the world do you think that the region was stable? Iraq has launched aggressive wars against Israel, Kuwait, and Iran, attacked Saudi Arabia, gassed its own people, committed mass murder on a rather large scale, and clearly was a terror sponsoring state. Don't you remember when Saddam was offering $25,000 to the surviving members of each PLO suicide bomber? No fly zones over the northern and southern parts of the country? Kicking weapons inspectors out? The list of the problems that Saddam caused is rather long.

The US obviously needs more troops on the ground, and it is also apparent that Iran and Syria are also sending more insurgents in to the fight. At least 500,000 combat troops are needed to truly pacify this area, according to the Powell Doctrine, which I will admit was ignored by Bush and Rumsfeld.

As always, Europe sits back and criticizes, but does really nothing. It has offered no solutions, and basically has been about as much a thorn in the side of America (a role that it obviously relishes) as Iraq and Iran.
stratohawk wrote:I'm sorry to ask, but do you speak German? You said you have German ancestors. I found this article on the website of the legitimate and reliable German newscast "tagesschau":
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldun ... 94,00.html
I can speak a bit, and can read German a bit better, but am far from what one would consider to be fluent.
Thanks for the link, and I'll check it out.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:06 pm

stratohawk wrote:
miditek wrote: There is no valid reason for excusing Germany of its crimes, and should serve as a lesson to others about the dangers of fascism. If you really are Greek, then you should be well aware of what the Germans did to your own country.
stratohawk wrote:You narrow-minded bullheaded fool! Germany is far away from forgetting or ignoring it's past, it is faced with it every day.
Obviously, as there are still US troops stationed in your country. That alone should be a good reminder, although I do feel that a sufficient amount of time has passed, and that there really is no need for them to remain. I think that they should be redeployed elsewhere.
stratohawk wrote: You don't live here, so you have NO FUCKING CLUE about it. And it seems like Germany is the only (or one of the VERY FEW) country in this world that deals with its violent past, that tries to go a path between compensation and building up trust and good relations with the old enemies.
Yes, Schroder did wonders for transatlantic relations, didn't he? After the US kicked the shit out of Germany twice, paid foreign aid and loans to rebuild it twice, and then protected it from its Warsaw Pact enemies for 50 years, Schroder essentially spit in the face of America, so there are obviously going to be some hard feelings. America also played a role in the reunification of your country.

Do you not recall President Reagan challenging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall!", and there was a great deal of behind the scenes diplomacy to help make reunification a reality. Do you have any idea how much effort it took to persuade the Russians to permit that?

For all of the talk of Blair being Bush's poodle, Schroder was certainly cozy with Chirac and his gang.

I recently read an interview with former Stuttgart Mayor Manfred Rommel, and as respected as he is, even he admitted that there is a lot of damage between the US and Germany that needs to be repaired.
stratohawk wrote: Does the USA deal with all the cruelties they did to Native Americans? What about the British ages of Colonialism? I could tell you much more examples like that. But you would find excuses for all of them, I know.
What happened to the Indians positively pales in comparison to what Germany did. Six million dead Jews not withstanding, what about over twenty million dead Russians? It's not even on the same level or scale.

The US has built reservations for the Indians, and also has set up many tribes with casinos (tax-free)in order to provide them with some additional compensation and incomes derived from the operation thereof. As a former colony of the UK, which we fought two wars with, America has no need to answer for British colonialism.
stratohawk wrote:You are one of the people that doesn't want to forgive. Forgivness doesn't mean to forget. We cannot undo the past, but we don't have to dig out the old conflicts again every day. We have to continue, and central Europe in itself lives in peace now for more than half a century.
Well said, but if Germany wishes to be an ally or friend of America, it should act like it, and not pay lip service to idiots like Chirac and DeVillepin, at the expense of the US. America has been a friend to Germany over the past sixty years, and I hope that good Germans like yourself will remember that.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:27 pm

Well I won't continue to argue with you, I exactly know why I didn't join discussions with you so far. You have your extreme, if not radical opinion, and nothing will change that. That's sad, but well, I respect that. I hope that one day there will be much more moderate and reasonable thinking people in this world, enough to make it a more peaceful place.
I'm sad that there are so much ignorant politicians that abuse their people for their intentions, that are willing to kill, no matter what kind of way (direct by weapons, indirect by dominating the world and suck everything out of poor countries, leaving the people in their tragic existences). I'm sad that there are so many people that are not able to forgive and that cannot see the signs - if mankind continues this way, our days are numbered...

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:32 am

no, you haven't followed other discussions before. There's no reason in discussing more. At least I don't see any. I read all those other discussions between miditek and NeonVomit, it leads to nothing.

I'm someone that usually is more reserved, so I don't participate in these political discussions. Today it was simply too much.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:10 am

stratohawk wrote:no, you haven't followed other discussions before. There's no reason in discussing more. At least I don't see any. I read all those other discussions between miditek and NeonVomit, it leads to nothing.


Ach! Mamma, Mamma, Das Arschloch ist dieses Miditek!

(Mommy, mommy, that Miditek is an asshole!)
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratohawk » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:01 am

miditek wrote:
stratohawk wrote:no, you haven't followed other discussions before. There's no reason in discussing more. At least I don't see any. I read all those other discussions between miditek and NeonVomit, it leads to nothing.


Ach! Mamma, Mamma, Das Arschloch ist dieses Miditek!

(Mommy, mommy, that Miditek is an asshole!)
I don't know what you want to say with that. I don't blame you for anything, but I saw in those discussions that they lead to nothing. So personally I don't see any reason to continue with them. :wink:

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:29 am

Miditek does have some pretty over-the-top views on some subjects (and what's with the irrational hatred of the whole of Europe, never could get that...) but at least he knows what he's talking about. Unlike some others.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:40 pm

LOL!The shoe always hurts when its on the other foot doesn't it? :lol:

miditek does not hate Europe---just like when some people bash the USA to high heaven&insult it in all matters, that does not mean people hate USA, either, does it? miditek is just following the crowd, except he is simply criticizing a different continent.
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