Michael Richards has lost it

[Stealth]

Michael Richards ("Kramer" in Seinfeld) went completely nuts! What the hell happened to that guy??

What do you guys think about this video? He lost it after two black guys interrupted him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEUIZsmTOE

[iron_thunder]

woah. that's nuts.

[browneyedgirl]

Seriously, I thought Kramer was the funniest character on Seinfeld, he made that show! However, sometimes I felt sorry for him because it seemed everything Kramer touched turned to shit! But, Kramer always turned it around&created humor from his screw-ups. He was a good sport&classy in a klutzy way.
Mr. Richards is only human, he made a mistake---if he apologizes&means it, that means he is a cool dude after all!

[Stealth]

You don't make a mistake like that and go on about it for more than two minutes, saying that's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't you know? This is not one of those cases where he can claim he actually meant something else and was misunderstood.

Here's his apology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dufHYw-W6j4

Personally, I think it's quite condescending. I doubt that he really means what he told Letterman...

[Stealth]

the 'heckler' being a black man might have incited him to using racial insults because they are the most common or convenient ones

I completely disagree. You can't react like that just because you are "incited" (btw, there's no proof that he was incited). You should keep your cool and react in a different way.
Being so reactionary (a characteristic of those who can't keep their cool and get angry in two seconds) has negative consequences, because it only generates more and more hatred.

[iron_thunder]

the 'heckler' being a black man might have incited him to using racial insults because they are the most common or convenient ones

I completely disagree. You can't react like that just because you are "incited" (btw, there's no proof that he was incited). You should keep your cool and react in a different way.

right.

it's like a somebody getting raped and the judge saying "she asked for it-- she was wearing a short skirt."

a dramatic example, but.

[browneyedgirl]

Yes, I know.
Everyone is supposed to be so perfect&so classy that noone is allowed to get angry or loose their cool over anything, unless of course they are "sex symbols", macho men, or famous musicians. Then, they can be humans, make mistakes&fools of themselves, say what they want&its A-OK. Example? We'd be here all day, but MEL GIBSON comes to mind! A perfect example! He did exactly what Mr. Richards did&after a bit of criticism in the press Mel's racial rampage full of verbal shit-throwing against Jews was swept under the rug. But, yeah, MEL is a "romantic, hero, macho idol" while Richards is just a rough around the edges comedian, so there ya go!
Who can say if Mr. Richards apology was fake or forced? Thats between him, and God, and if Mel's apology ws so quickly accepted by the public, so should Mr. Richards.
BTW, Mel is just a single example, I can think of others but that would take all day!

@iron_thunder, I agree with you about the rape cases. That goes on still--Lawyers still use that BS to defend their clients accused of rape.

Once in a rape trial, the lady was on the stand&the defendants lawyer gave her an empty coke bottle, and told her to move it round&round. The lawyer then tried to stick a pencil in the moving bottle opening&could not get it in. (Still with me?) Wll, the guy was found ot guilty. The premise was, of course, that the woman did not resist&therefore did not get raped. This incident really happened&overnight this lawyer became the talk of the town and most sought after by accused felons.
So, iron_thunder, you are so right about what you said.

[Martine]

In Mel Gibson's case, if I recall correctly, he was completely drunk. Was Michael Richards maybe on something too?

[browneyedgirl]

In Mel Gibson's case, if I recall correctly, he was completely drunk. Was Michael Richards maybe on something too?

Probably not.
But, being drunk is no real excuse for anyone. Just let the "Average Joe" pull something like Mel did&I promise you they'd probably still be sitting in jail now on a variety of charges. Money does talk!
On VH-1 a Famous Musician was bragging about being caught by the police being under the influence of several drugs&having a couple drugs in his possession(crack&cocaine, if I remember correctly). He bragged about just getting probation&rehab(which did not work in the long term, btw). If that had been the "average Joe" they would have gotten 5-10 years in prison! But, thats OK, thats where the riff-raff belong as long as they are not idolized celebs, of course.

Anyway, I think the point I was making is, if we forgive one person so readily for doing something stupid or wrong, then we should be tolerant&forgiving for another who does the same thing. Even if they are not so popular, or as famous.
Or, maybe as rich.

[Beast_Pete]

I don't think it was right from that black guy interrupting the show, but the way the showman replied was not nice and not even near to it.

I couldn't see the Letterman show video, because it was removed. :/

[browneyedgirl]

Well, look at the bright side, 2 years from now nobody's going to give a rat's ass. I mean, these stars&celebs are always doing weird&silly stuff. There will be someone who will do lots worse, you can count on that!
And, we will be here to discuss it!

[miditek]

I think that the entire affair has been blown completely out of proportion, thanks in large part to the self-righteous media in Hollywood, who in turn, love to fan the flames. Unlike Europe, we have free speech here in America (with the exception of many university campuses), even if you don't like what the other person has to say.

There are no black political leaders in power (no Prime Ministers, Foreign Ministers, Defense Ministers) or military leaders in Europe, so please spare us with the feigned shock and indignation. Euros are every bit as racist as anyone else anywhere else in the world.

I didn't like it when Jesse Jackson said that New York (home of two million Jewish people) was "Hymietown", and when Louis Farrakhan or Malcolm X called white men "the Devil", but even then, they are free to say what they want here in the US, even when they come across sounding like a jackass.

What Richards said was probably not the smartest thing to say, but is really no different than what other entertainers, such as Dave Chappelle, Ice-T, Quentin Tarantino, and yes even Axl Rose, who have all said the n-word with far less consequences than this.

As far as the hecklers go, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. I see a lot of this everywhere I go, in movie theaters, restaurants, comedy shows, etc., and if someone gets pissed off and calls you out for being rude, obnoxious, and causing a scene in public, then it's just too fucking bad.

The hecklers were trying to get a response from Richards by antagonizing him, and guess what? I suppose that they got what they were looking for- a negative response that they could complain about.

And this whole scenario probably could have been avoided if the club's bouncers had been doing their jobs and ejected them from the show for causing a disturbance.

Both Michael Richards, as well as Mel Gibson, have apologized profusely and have asked for forgiveness.
Has anyone here ever done anything stupid, only to ask to be forgiven later on?

[Stealth]

I couldn't see the Letterman show video, because it was removed. :/

Here's another, slightly longer version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UR4sysYE3A

[NeonVomit]

etc.

I admire the way you manage to take anything and use it as proof of how evil Europe is. Your Europhobia is quite spectacular...

[Stealth]

if Mel's apology was so quickly accepted by the public, so should Mr. Richards.

I disagree. That's like saying "if O.J. Simpson was found to be innocent, then all others accused of the same crime should be considered not guilty". There's really no logic in that.

@miditek: I agree with NeonVomit. You really have a serious problem with Europe, not to mention the fact that you don't seem to acknowledge that there are more than two continents on this planet. For you it's either Europe or the U.S. (oh, Canada and Mexico are also in North America, mind you). And please stop mentioning that crap about free speech. Nobody cares and it sounds foolish. Don't forget that there are no real political options there... It's either the Democrats or the Republicans, and all other options are shut down, so you can say all you want, but you can't produce any real change.

I think you could use some anger management sessions... You should try to contact Mr. Richards, that way you wouldn't be alone.

EDIT: Oh btw, have you seen that sketch where Borat goes to a rodeo dressed with a shirt that has the American flag on it and a sort of cowboy hat? And then there's someone riding a horse waving a huge American flag, and all you can see everywhere you look is white, red and blue. Well, that's the image I have of you, miditek. Quite amusing.

[miditek]

[quote="Stealth]@EDIT: Oh btw, have you seen that sketch where Borat goes to a rodeo dressed with a shirt that has the American flag on it and a sort of cowboy hat? And then there's someone riding a horse waving a huge American flag, and all you can see everywhere you look is white, red and blue. Well, that's the image I have of you, miditek. Quite amusing. [/quote]

I took my girlfriend to see Borat a couple of weeks ago, and I thought that scene, along as well as your analogy actually, was amusing, and it would probably be difficult for me to successfully dispute.

Touché to you on that one.

[Stealth]

Touché? What? I wasn't hoping you would dispute anything. I honestly didn't care for your reply and wasn't waiting for a specific one. I just expressed the kind of image I have of you, and if anything, I'm glad you agree. There's no touché to be had...

[browneyedgirl]

Yes, Mr. Richard's comments have been blown out of proportion. The responses here, I think, have proven me right after all&I am not going to repeat what I have posted.
Probably a few years from now, if events in the world continue the course they are going, we will find getting upset over some mindless BS a celeb spouts off, very trivial indeed!
And there is NO logic, actually, in comparing Mr. Richard's silliness to what OJ Simpson might, or might not have done, either! Words hurt, but they don't kill!

[Stealth]

And there is NO logic, actually, in comparing Mr. Richard's silliness to what OJ Simpson might, or might not have done, either! Words hurt, but they don't kill!

Regardless of whether words kill or not, the logic remains the same. It doesn't change according to the severity of the example being examined. Simpson's case is as separate from other murder cases as Mel Gibson's case is from Michael Richards' case. They have to be considered individually. I insist, if what Richards said should be forgotten because what Mel said was forgotten, then we should forget all cases of rape because in the example that you mentioned earlier, the rapist got away with it and was forgotten. It doesn't work that way.

[browneyedgirl]

And there is NO logic, actually, in comparing Mr. Richard's silliness to what OJ Simpson might, or might not have done, either! Words hurt, but they don't kill!

Regardless of whether words kill or not, the logic remains the same. It doesn't change according to the severity of the example being examined. Simpson's case is as separate from other murder cases as Mel Gibson's case is from Michael Richards' case. They have to be considered individually. I insist, if what Richards said should be forgotten because what Mel said was forgotten, then we should forget all cases of rape because in the example that you mentioned earlier, the rapist got away with it and was forgotten. It doesn't work that way.

no, the reason Richards words should be forgotten is that he made a stupid mistake like everyone on the face of the world does. I can name instances where people made mistakes&yet, I won't because it is simply stupid. But, you think we are to be selective with our forgiveness---Oh, boy you have lots to learn! And, I won't explain that because I don't think you'd understand. Its something you will find out on your own someday. One day, Stealth, you will make a mistake, slip of the tongue, whatever&you will want forgiveness. What if people think/judge that YOU are unworthy of forgiveness?
But, like I said, probably soon enough everyone will have more to talk and worry about than the antics of celebs. I know I won't lose any sleep over them!

[Carcass]

Unlike Europe, we have free speech here in America (with the exception of many university campuses), even if you don't like what the other person has to say.

Which European countries are you refering to? Please don't insult yourself by making stupid generalizations. It seems to me that you equate EU with all the countries that are on the continent, this proves that you have really no idea what Europe really is like. A protestant Finland is very different from a catholic monarcy in the south. Don't take those talks about USE too seriously. There are very different cultures and societies on this continent.

I guess you are mostly refering to France when you point out that there is no free speeche in Europe. It's true that their governments have criminalized questioning of The Holocaust, The Armenian Genocide and the folly of slavery. While several countries have also banned Holocaust denial, there are more countries in which all of these things are allowed.

While I agree it's ridiculous to outlaw the questioning of these obviously horrible and real things, I don't find anything funny in them. In another topic you suggested that things have been outlawed in Europe cause we can't take jokes. Of course now you will tell that was a joke too, but it's not always so easy to tell when you are joking and when you are being serious.

[browneyedgirl]

Actually, I did not think free speech existed ANYWHERE--otherwise why do people always nit pick what others say&use their words to judge them?
But, talk is cheap--actions always speak louder than words.

Yes, Carcass is right--the Scandinavian countries are much different than their Southern neighbors, and a person DOES NOT have to go to Europe to know that. I won't elaborate. Social statistics speak for themselves.

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

[NeonVomit]

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

So if someone acts stupidly and says idiotic things about one's country, one must respond in kind rather than rise above it?

[Carcass]

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

Yes, unfortunately a lot of Europeans see a patriotic-coservative-arrogant-fat-fundamentalist label on the forehead of each and every USAer.

[NeonVomit]

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

Yes, unfortunately a lot of Europeans see a patriotic-coservative-arrogant-fat-fundamentalist label on the forehead of each and every USAer.

Very true. It's important to realise that most people in Europe just dislike the current US administration and actually have nothing against the people of America.

Some people, unfortunately, do not see this.

[browneyedgirl]

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

Yes, unfortunately a lot of Europeans see a patriotic-coservative-arrogant-fat-fundamentalist label on the forehead of each and every USAer.

Only if they are female, over-40, and not skinny, blonde bombshells!
Seriously, You got it-- even if the person(Moi, for example)is totally opposite from that entire ignorant judgment. Like they say, there is a name for people who judge someone they have never seen, or do not even know.
I mean, I know that all Europeans do not participate in loose sexual behavior, drink like a fish, marry 3 or more times, or look down on people they THINK are lower class.
BTW, you forgot to mention the unforgivable adjectives inbred&trailer trash applied to us who are NOT inbred&have NEVER lived in a GD trailer our entire lives. A certain person in the past in this forum slung verbal shit like that to a few people in this forum all the time&I guess the powers that be were in love with her or something &ALLOWED her to abuse people like that. People were told to ignore her --the thing is, when the shoe was on the other foot people were given warnings, etc. I think that showed what side the mods were on back then. What does that have to do with this topic? Well, labeling on a forum&off is stupid across the board, just as heckling&interrupting someone when they are doing a show or interview(like Richards)is impolite&uncalled for. If you are a musician just think how you'd feel if some people in the audience heckled you, threw bottles, shouted obscenities&stuff of that nature. And do not insult my intelligence&say you'd be a masochistic goody-two shoes, and ignore it.
As for arrogance, you should know damn well that is a trait that people in ALL countries possess. You see people writing intolerant things like: "I despise stupidity in every form, etc." Nobody can get much more arrogant than that.(What will people like this do if they have a mentally challanged child? Throw them in an institution somewhere?) Being judgmental like that is wrong no matter what country you are from.
And probably people who write&believe stuff like that think they are loving, and tolerant. But, it does not matter, most people wind up eating their arrogant words&actions anyway.

Oh, one more thing. I have een on other Finnish band forums, and peole there are ALLOWED to bash the USA like crazy, too. The thing is, when people criticize Finland or other European countries for their POLICIES, its not taken lightly. Hypocrisy in the 1st degree.
If the Scandinavian countries are so perfect or a utopia of happiness, why do they have some of the highest illegetimacy rates, divorce rates, suicide rates, mental illness&alcoholism rates in the world? Oh, I guess in THIS case the statistics lie, huh? Or its one of those "its nobody's business" philosophies. Cool. Denial works every time. However, this area of the world has the most picturesque scenery in the world, and some of the best Metal Music, I'll give you that! :headbang:

[miditek]

But, I guess if USAers are going to be judged harshly by what a few Americans believe&do, we feel we have the right to judge generally, too, I guess.

Yes, unfortunately a lot of Europeans see a patriotic-coservative-arrogant-fat-fundamentalist label on the forehead of each and every USAer.

Only if they are female, over-40, and not skinny, blonde bombshells!

It would be very amusing to see a certain blonde, over 40 female (Ann Coulter) jump into this discussion- her bombshell factor would be in the eye of the beholder, put personally, I think she's pretty hot.

She would probably declare that the hecklers were infidels, and must be given a choice of conversion (to Christianity) or the guillotine. France would be subject to cruise missile (w/ garlic warheads, no less) strikes if it publicly disagreed with her.

[miditek]

Unlike Europe, we have free speech here in America (with the exception of many university campuses), even if you don't like what the other person has to say.

Which European countries are you refering to? Please don't insult yourself by making stupid generalizations.

France is not the only country that has restricted certain types of speech. Germany and Austria have adopted similar policies as well.

It seems to me that you equate EU with all the countries that are on the continent, this proves that you have really no idea what Europe really is like.

I'm not sure if some Europeans are even 100% certain of their own identities. A Flemish friend of mine certainly comes to mind here. He claims to have no real nationality. (Belgian passport, Flemish ethnicity, based out of Milan, works in the USA, etc.) I've also seen lots of commentary to where it seems that some Europeans dislike the fact that they are French/German/Finnish/etc. and feel that patriotism in passe'.

A protestant Finland is very different from a catholic monarcy in the south. Don't take those talks about USE too seriously. There are very different cultures and societies on this continent.

I am sure that you are on to something there, and 100 years ago, I would probably say that you are absolutely correct. However, it seems to me that Christianity has just about ran its course in Western Europe, although I don't think that notion applies to Eastern Europe- just yet.

I guess you are mostly refering to France when you point out that there is no free speeche in Europe. It's true that their governments have criminalized questioning of The Holocaust, The Armenian Genocide and the folly of slavery. While several countries have also banned Holocaust denial, there are more countries in which all of these things are allowed.

And there are some countries, such as Belarus and Russia, where having the wrong opinion can be somewhat hazardous to a person's health. However, we don't hear a lot of complaints about that, do we?

That is one thing that frustrates me. If Michael Richards (or Dave Chappelle) want to use the n-word ad infinitum , then that is their business. If Richards' career goes into the tank (as if it were not already there!) due to this, then it is no one's fault other than his own, and I would not be sympathetic to him. I feel that far too much emphasis (on both sides of the Atlantic) is placed on the trivial issues of the day, and not enough on the really important ones.

While I agree it's ridiculous to outlaw the questioning of these obviously horrible and real things, I don't find anything funny in them. In another topic you suggested that things have been outlawed in Europe cause we can't take jokes. Of course now you will tell that was a joke too, but it's not always so easy to tell when you are joking and when you are being serious.

Sometimes there can be a fine line between political satire, comedy, and black (absurdist) comedy. Borat really made a lot of "red-blooded Americans" so to speak, look really backwards and stupid, but I laughed heartily at it, nevertheless.

A little self-deprecating humor never hurt anyone, and maybe you might want to try it sometime. Ronald Reagan made an entire career out of it.

[Carcass]

A little self-deprecating humor never hurt anyone, and maybe you might want to try it sometime.

OK, I might've sounded a bit hypocritical there. My sense of humour is very dark, even racist sometimes, although in a very ironic way; or at least I'd like to think so. I think there is a racist and a hypocrit in all of us. It's something we are born with.

BUT, I try to limit my jokes to a certain audience that knows that I'm merely joking. If I know that somebody might get hurt, I prefer to shut up.

I'm a fan of Chapelle-kinda humour, but I don't think I would be able to crack jokes in public the way he does. Guess I'm a pussy then.

I'll try to answer your whole post later.

[browneyedgirl]

I think there is a racist and a hypocrit in all of us. It's something we are born with.[/quote]

Born with hypocrisy? Man, you are a comedian. That is like saying Males are born with a "destined to cheat on their wives" gene. We learn th behaviors, thought patterns&even opinions that we have. Association with others(even on the 'net, I've seen that happen, in bad ways)also affects how we feel about things&our behavior/thoughts.
If we say something is naturally within us-our genes&DNA, it gives people the excuse to have these often negative behaviors&thought patterns. (I cannot help being racist&hypocritical--its within me&I cannot change)Thinking this way makes it easier to do these thougts&behaviors without regret, or hurting our conscience. Like lying, for example, too.

@Miditek, Ann Coulter is one high-spirited woman, I sure would not want to tangle/spar with her-- on the verbal, or any level. What do you want to bet she has studied some form of martial art?

Back on topic:
This is what the guy(Who Kramer, the character, was based on)thought about all this goings-on.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/24/D8LJJQ701.html

Pretty interesting.