Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

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browneyedgirl
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Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:24 pm

Some people will openly wail&rant against races tey hate.
Some people will quietly discuss their biased rancor with family&friends.
Some people will anonymously go on forums&messageboards venting their real feelngs of resentment toward other races.
THEN, we have folks who have websites like THIS:

http://judicial-inc.biz/e.eric.gielbe.htm

You know, people who try to intellectualize&be educated about their Hate while they try to rationalize it. ;)

Why do folks feel tat way about Jews anyway? Maybe I'm just a backward moron, but what in the Hell is so bad about Jews? ??? :?

I am perplexed! :shock:
Granted, I have not known that many Jews bt the ones I have known personally have been VERY kind&interesting people. ???

One of the best professors I had in University was a Jew&was very well-liked by everyone, with his humor&personalty he was very popular with students on both personal and acaemic basis.

My first serious boyfriend was a Jew&his famiy definitely did not fit with the cheapskate nitpicking stereotype! They were good&fun people, too!

My Ex-husbands best friend for many years was a Jew&he was as nice a person as you could meet!

There were also a couple girls I was friends with in University who were Jewish&these gals were as Cool as any of the other girls on campus!!!!

I think you get my drift......
Where is tis this Scapegoating of Jews comig from?
The same place people get their bias of Blacks, Asians and Other groups such as Nerds&Rednecks?

People have to have some group or person to take out their inner frustration about their own life---is it THAT simple? Or something more frightening?
More&more these sites that spread this stupid shit are getting more annoying to me everyday! :roll:

I mean, do these people have these sites for jokes, or what? The sick part is, some people actually believe this garbage&that to me is VERY dangerous........
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Neorave » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:38 pm

I get what you're saying, BEG. This guy's just a whining racist bitch, wanting to prove, once again, the negatives of something without bringing out the positive.
Racist bitch wrote:On the one hand, they believe that they alone are God's chosen people, above all others -- now that is a delusion of grandeur if ever I have seenone; and on the other hand, their whole religious history is one of them being persecuted, which can be seen even in their questionably historically accurate biblical stories.
Well, if this little whining bitch would actually read the so called "questionably historically accurate" Bible, then he could see why they were persecuted.

"Oy vey, Moses is taking so long from that freakin' mountain. HEY, let's make a God of our own. YAY, OPA!"

Why are they being persecuted, Mr. Racist Man? Because 1. In the past, their stupid sinful ways got them there, and 2. BECAUSE OF YOU DUMBASS RACISTS! I even find it funny that this guy says that this "paranoia" makes it out to be some kind of Jewish disease.

But this is what I think tkaes the cake:
Racist Bitch wrote:You might now ask, what is the solution? Well, we cannot do anything about
Jews and their stranglehold on American public life and culture, until we
awaken White Gentiles to the issues at stake. So while it is worthwhile to
have an understanding of why Jews behave the way they do, simply attacking
them or concentrating our efforts into negative propaganda is to no avail.

We need to reach out to the millions of White Americans who are receptive
to the message of White Separatism, who are susceptible to an understanding
of what needs to be done if we are to save Western civilization. It is
those people to who we must address ourselves, and it is to those people to
whom the National Alliance reaches out every day, every week, and every
month.
What can we do about a race we hate? Nothing, but bitch some more. We're trying to make world peace, and we're exploiting an entire race of their sins. Wow, what a great country the USA is.

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:51 pm

America is a great country, because it allows such freedom of expression.

But the message of hate and discrimination is sad, and dangerous.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by cliff » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:23 pm

NeonVomit wrote:America is a great country, because it allows such freedom of expression.

But the message of hate and discrimination is sad, and dangerous.
Well... the guy is just a retarded bastard.
There is nothing you can do for pp like this.
Honestly, I have no idea why Jewish are so much hatred. I have never had any pbm with any of them.

But I have to agree with NeonVomit.
Of course what the guy wrote is lame, irrespectful and completely stupid.
But even if I don't share his opinion at all, I think everyone should be allowed to think whatever they want about whatever they want... a long as they don't go until harassing, hiting or killing people!
In France, you cannot think anything, because the politically-correct is always around, and if you still date to say your opinion loud which is against the general opinion, you can go to jail (ex if you say that 10 players on 11 in the France football team are black... I mean, you don't even say "black pp suck" or "i hate black pp", you just say "there are black pp"... you go to prison. What the ???). Freedom of speech should always remain, no matter all the stupid and senseless things you might have to say.
Besides, the guy might be a 14 year-old kid who hides behind his computer and thinks he can be safe like this.
Unfortunately, stupidity is like Internet. It's worldwide.

The best in that case is simply to ignore this website and the words of that guy. If you see something offensive on TV, you usually change the channel, you don't continue watching the program, right ?
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Shurik » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:01 pm

A short summary:

Bla bla bla bla Jews are bad bla bla Zionism is bad bla bla Jews want to rule the world bla bla bla Jews are inferior.

Now there's no reason for you to go to that site :)

Being a Jew for 28.5 years, I can assure you that we are not bad nor want to rule the world (though it'll be nice) ...
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:02 pm

cliff wrote:
The best in that case is simply to ignore this website and the words of that guy. If you see something offensive on TV, you usually change the channel, you don't continue watching the program, right ?
That's it. Many people don't think of that and are content to complain about someone who says something they disagree with.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Martine » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:27 pm

You see, here in Canada, the Law concerning public communications (or something like that) allows you to openly say, write or publish any of your opinion unless it contains a message of hate, discrimination, racism, etc., etc. In that case, you would be liable for a sentence under criminal law. Obviously, this guy specifically falls under this category and, if he was Canadian, I would denounce him to the authorities right away.

In fact, I will likely send his message to my bosses here, since they are all Jews, except for one or two. Maybe they will decide what to do with it, whether ignore it or do something more... punchy.

Thank you Browneyedgirl for bringing it to us. If we can do something to stop him, why not? (even if we cannot stop all of this kind of messages that are spreaded out via Internet).

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Carcass » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:36 pm

I agree with Cliff too. People get offended by everything: Harry Potter, gays, religious fanatics, cutting trees down, swearing in public, eating hamburgers etc. Nothing should ever be prohibited only because it's offending. If I'm offended (which doesn't happen very often) by something I simply ignore it.

People do not have the right not to be offended.

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Martine » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:47 pm

Carcass wrote:I agree with Cliff too. People get offended by everything: Harry Potter, gays, religious fanatics, cutting trees down, swearing in public, eating hamburgers etc. Nothing should ever be prohibited only because it's offending. If I'm offended (which doesn't happen very often) by something I simply ignore it.
Well I disagree in part with you guys. One could say that he is offended by the environmental problem of the Earth. In that case, why don't we just sit in our living rooms and wait to see what happens? It is always easier to say "Just ignore it!" than taking action against hatred.

Everyone has his own battle I presume, but I believe that sometimes, we need to act even if takes time to get positive results.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:58 pm

Martine wrote:
Carcass wrote:I agree with Cliff too. People get offended by everything: Harry Potter, gays, religious fanatics, cutting trees down, swearing in public, eating hamburgers etc. Nothing should ever be prohibited only because it's offending. If I'm offended (which doesn't happen very often) by something I simply ignore it.
Well I disagree in part with you guys. One could say that he is offended by the environmental problem of the Earth. In that case, why don't we just sit in our living rooms and wait to see what happens? It is always easier to say "Just ignore it!" than taking action against hatred.

Everyone has his own battle I presume, but I believe that sometimes, we need to act even if takes time to get positive results.
Yes, but certain things (like the environment) are not a matter of being 'offended', its more a matter of actual, real harmful effects.

We mean things like people who are offended by homosexuality. At the end of the day, how someone lives their personal life is no-one else's buisiness. They're not harming anyone. But people will get very vocal and angry about it... why? It's just a projection of hate.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Martine » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:20 pm

I hate injustice, that's all, but I guess you're right. :cry:
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by cliff » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:44 pm

Martine wrote: Well I disagree in part with you guys. One could say that he is offended by the environmental problem of the Earth. In that case, why don't we just sit in our living rooms and wait to see what happens? It is always easier to say "Just ignore it!" than taking action against hatred.
This is completely different Martine. In that environ-mental problem, we are all concerned. It's the fault of each one of us. Besides, if pp just keep on ignoring the pbm, we might all suffer from it one day or another, it will lead to the end of mankind.

But some words of hatred from a stupid lunatic on the internet, that's nothing "concrete". Just one frustated person wasting his hate by words on a network. But if the guy starts to mention physical and personal threats to Jewish, like "the cup is over. I promise I will kill the next Jewish that I meet!!", then yes, that's offensive and we absolutely have to report the case to the police. But if someone writes "Jewish are shit" or "American are dumbasses", that's an opinion. Besides, one single opinion has never been a universal truth :-)
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Martine » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:56 pm

Well, you all calmed me down. I was so angry, you can't tell. Once you think about it, you're right of course. Thanks! :D
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by cliff » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:16 pm

Martine wrote:Well, you all calmed me down. I was so angry, you can't tell. Once you think about it, you're right of course. Thanks! :D
No pbm, it happens to everyone :)
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:45 am

Yes, people have a right to express their opinions&thoughts, but its still almost like a slap in the face to hear, or read such expressions of hate, bias or racism. I live in an area where, still there is a resentment toward blacks. I won't even post some of the hateful things I've heard people say. Not only are racist comments hateful&downright mean, but lots are just utterly ridiculous!
For example, there are people who think if a certain religion or race(insert any at random)were wiped off the face of the Earth,then the world, or their lives would automaticly be better! :roll: I mean, thats very egoistical&even, off the wall to think such silliness, but that does happen!

One more thing about the Jewish stuff: who in the Hell are these Bildeburgs, or Rothchilds that these Jewish-haters are always ranting about? ???
Some of these websites actually preach that the Jews are behind everything from whats on TV, to the Columbine shootings, 911, to the Kennedy assassination! I mean, Good God! You would think only really ignorant people would believe such garbage, but I have lurked at some of these hateful messageboards, forums&websites(out of curiosity) and you would be fucking shocked!!!!!!And, its not just USAers who believe this shit, either--its worldwide.

Some of that stuff is scarey, like people saying they'd love to bag their share of Blacks, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hispanics, etc, etc. :nervous:
Yes, one can ignore it but, damn I hope there never comes a time when these nuts get a chance to fulfill their dark :sick: fantasies.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Shurik » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:16 am

Rotschild family is a banking family originally from England (end of 18th century). They are known in European Jewish communities and in Israel for their philanthropic activities.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:09 am

Shurik wrote:Rotschild family is a banking family originally from England (end of 18th century). They are known in European Jewish communities and in Israel for their philanthropic activities.
Oh, so they are for real. I thought maybe they were a family just made up by these conspiracy people. :roll: I kinda feel sorry for them, then--to be used as a scapegoat like that. I mean, its no sin being rich no matter what religion people belong to!
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:15 am

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ ... cution.htm

Read it&weep. And this is just what happened AFTER the earlist daye listed, it does not list the offenses to the Jews BEFORE that. Romans tried to exterminate Christians, Jews&Pagans alike.

"Why do people hate Jews? For the same reason they hate Whites, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims&fat people, ugly people, rednecks&nerds, etc-----because if they did not hate others, they'd have to hate themselves!"

Hating Jews is comparable to hating the Ugly girl in school who is sweet, funny&intelligent, whose only fault is that she is Ugly.

Wgen pressed, predjudiced people will usually give 2 reasons they hate Jews:
1. They are greedy&control the World's wealth. WRONG!!!! The majority of Jews in the world are middle or lower class.
2. The Jews killed Jesus. WRONG! It was the Sanhedrin, a small group of Jewish judges who sent Christ to his death. About a dozen people out of thousands---is that classed as ALL?

The most dangerous fallacy&misconception is that Jew-haters are illiterate&ignorant. Not in the techical sense. For example, take the late Dr. William Pierce who had a Ph.d in Physics, authored many books(including the infamous TURNER DIARIES), and taught on the College level before he "saw the light", :roll: became a White Separatist and founded the National Alliance. A couple years before his death, Pierce thought up a way to reach more gullible, misguided young people-- Pierce created a new genre of Music: Hate Metal. Laugh if you must, but thats true! He had a studio built&rock bands would come&record their music of hate and violence. I hate to say it, but this venture was very profitable. :sick:
On 60 Minutes, Pierce defended this disgusting music by saying he was only giving people what they wanted with the feelings that they already felt!
The point is, a person does not have to be a Pig to wallow in the mud!

One day alot of people are going to have alot to answer for.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Shurik » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ ... cution.htm

Read it&weep. And this is just what happened AFTER the earlist daye listed, it does not list the offenses to the Jews BEFORE that. Romans tried to exterminate Christians, Jews&Pagans alike.

"Why do people hate Jews? For the same reason they hate Whites, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims&fat people, ugly people, rednecks&nerds, etc-----because if they did not hate others, they'd have to hate themselves!"

Hating Jews is comparable to hating the Ugly girl in school who is sweet, funny&intelligent, whose only fault is that she is Ugly.

Wgen pressed, predjudiced people will usually give 2 reasons they hate Jews:
1. They are greedy&control the World's wealth. WRONG!!!! The majority of Jews in the world are middle or lower class.
2. The Jews killed Jesus. WRONG! It was the Sanhedrin, a small group of Jewish judges who sent Christ to his death. About a dozen people out of thousands---is that classed as ALL?

The most dangerous fallacy&misconception is that Jew-haters are illiterate&ignorant. Not in the techical sense. For example, take the late Dr. William Pierce who had a Ph.d in Physics, authored many books(including the infamous TURNER DIARIES), and taught on the College level before he "saw the light", :roll: became a White Separatist and founded the National Alliance. A couple years before his death, Pierce thought up a way to reach more gullible, misguided young people-- Pierce created a new genre of Music: Hate Metal. Laugh if you must, but thats true! He had a studio built&rock bands would come&record their music of hate and violence. I hate to say it, but this venture was very profitable. :sick:
On 60 Minutes, Pierce defended this disgusting music by saying he was only giving people what they wanted with the feelings that they already felt!
The point is, a person does not have to be a Pig to wallow in the mud!

One day alot of people are going to have alot to answer for.
Allow me to correct you on some things. First of all, Romans, when they were Pagans, were quite tolerant to the Jews, it was the Christians they didn't particularly like until the start of 4th century AD, when religious tolerance was declared by emperor Constantine, Roman emperors started from him became Christians and the persecution of Pagans and Jews began. There was one emperor in the middle of 4th century who converted back to some sort of paganism (Julian Apostate) and even intended to rebuild the Temple of Jerusalem but his rule wasn't long enough to achieve anything. Romans did destroy the Second Temple of Jerusalem and did expel the Jews from what was then known as Palestina but it was after 2 Jewish revolts against their rule, first was in 60s-70s AD, resulted in destruction of the Temple, second was in 130s AD, resulted in expultion of Jews from Palestina. They did stuff like that to basically everyone who revolted against them (like Gauls in 1st century BC).

Second - early Christians were mostly Jews (like Christ and his disciples) and poor layers of Roman society and Christianity was some messianic variation of Judaism. There was no calls for religious intolerance towards any confession in early Christianity. Later, when Christianity became Roman Empire's state religion, Christians paid Pagans back for 300 years of persecution and added everyone else to "convert or lose your rights" list. All today's hatred towards Jews is a result of 1700 years of persecution, religious nonsense like "Jews killed Christ" and so on, it's basis is purely religious.

As far as I know the Christian mythology, Sanhedrin was worried that some guy started to preach against them and developed a following, so they arrested him and delivered him to Romans, who, after some persuasion, crucified him ...
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:34 pm

Masada was a very sad event in Jewish history, too. It took place about 79AD, I think ???. The Romans beseiged the city for 3 years&if accounts are accurate the Jews committed suicide after food&water ran out rather than surrender to the Romans.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Shurik » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:18 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:Masada was a very sad event in Jewish history, too. It took place about 79AD, I think ???. The Romans beseiged the city for 3 years&if accounts are accurate the Jews committed suicide after food&water ran out rather than surrender to the Romans.
It was during the first revolt, in 73AD. What happened there is that Romans built a ramp that allowed them to enter the fortress, because the fortress itself was unreachable for them (or for anyone else who didn't know the right passages) because it was built on the top of the high hill in the middle of the desert. The fortress had enough food and water to withstand years of siege ... When the ramp was finished and Romans were about to breach the fortress, the inhabitants of the fortress chose to commit suicide and not be slaughtered or sold to slavery by the Romans ...

I visited the ruins of Masada, it's a very beautiful place ...
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by TimoTolkki » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:48 pm

First of all, Romans, when they were Pagans, were quite tolerant to the Jews, it was the Christians they didn't particularly like until the start of 4th century AD, when religious tolerance was declared by emperor Constantine, Roman emperors started from him became Christians and the persecution of Pagans and Jews began
.

Actually Constantine was a lifelong pagan, but he saw his kingdom being divided and violent so he arranged what is known as "The council of Nicea", in which was decided that to unify the roman empire, Christianity will be declared as the official religion of the empire. In the same meeting was decided that Jesus was divine, although most considered him by then to be just a man. It was also decided which gospels fit into the doctrine and many were left out, most importantly the gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene.
All today's hatred towards Jews is a result of 1700 years of persecution, religious nonsense like "Jews killed Christ" and so on, it's basis is purely religious.
But isn´t it true that "the Jews killed Christ"? The council and the citizens?

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by Shurik » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:53 pm

Actually Constantine was a lifelong pagan, but he saw his kingdom being divided and violent so he arranged what is known as "The council of Nicea", in which was decided that to unify the roman empire, Christianity will be declared as the official religion of the empire. In the same meeting was decided that Jesus was divine, although most considered him by then to be just a man. It was also decided which gospels fit into the doctrine and many were left out, most importantly the gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene.
Thanks for corrections, my knowledge of early Christian history is quite shaky :) AFAIK, Constantine was tolerant to other religions, unlike most of Roman emperors who came before and was the first emperor to convert to Christianity, on his deathbed.
But isn´t it true that "the Jews killed Christ"? The council and the citizens?
All the Jews participated in the killing of Christ? :roll:
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by TimoTolkki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:03 am

Shurik wrote:
Actually Constantine was a lifelong pagan, but he saw his kingdom being divided and violent so he arranged what is known as "The council of Nicea", in which was decided that to unify the roman empire, Christianity will be declared as the official religion of the empire. In the same meeting was decided that Jesus was divine, although most considered him by then to be just a man. It was also decided which gospels fit into the doctrine and many were left out, most importantly the gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene.
Thanks for corrections, my knowledge of early Christian history is quite shaky :) AFAIK, Constantine was tolerant to other religions, unlike most of Roman emperors who came before and was the first emperor to convert to Christianity, on his deathbed.
But isn´t it true that "the Jews killed Christ"? The council and the citizens?
All the Jews participated in the killing of Christ? :roll:
Of course not. Do all Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map?
Do all Israelians want to wipe Palestine off the map?

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by miditek » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:24 am

First of all, Romans, when they were Pagans, were quite tolerant to the Jews, it was the Christians they didn't particularly like until the start of 4th century AD, when religious tolerance was declared by emperor Constantine, Roman emperors started from him became Christians and the persecution of Pagans and Jews began
.
TimoTolkki wrote:Actually Constantine was a lifelong pagan, but he saw his kingdom being divided and violent so he arranged what is known as "The council of Nicea", in which was decided that to unify the roman empire, Christianity will be declared as the official religion of the empire. In the same meeting was decided that Jesus was divine, although most considered him by then to be just a man. It was also decided which gospels fit into the doctrine and many were left out, most importantly the gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene.

All today's hatred towards Jews is a result of 1700 years of persecution, religious nonsense like "Jews killed Christ" and so on, it's basis is purely religious.
TimoTolkki wrote:But isn´t it true that "the Jews killed Christ"? The council and the citizens?
The Jews that the New Testament mentions (as Shurik pointed out earlier, unless I'm mistaken), were the Sanhedrin Council, which I've always interpreted as a sort of Rabbinical Supreme Court, along with the mob that they incited, put pressure on the Roman Governor Pilate to execute Christ. Multitudes of others followed Him throughout His ministry. A Roman execution battalion, led by a Centurion, actually carried out the execution itself.

There are very few, if any, respected modern Judeo-Christian theologians that would try to place any "collective guilt" on the Jews, who are an ethnic group as opposed to a race, for the death of Christ.

Also, regarding the gospel of Judas, the traditional (or canonical) gospels clearly point out that it was Judas that betrayed Christ to the Sanhedrin for the price of 30 silver shekels. Judas, in his guilt, tried to return the money to the Council, as he knew that the Man he betrayed was innocent. The high rabbi said, "You see to it.", and then, of course, Judas hanged himself. The Sanhedrin knew that it was "unlawful" for them to keep "blood money" and buried it in a field.

In other words the story of the betrayal is harmonious across the four canonical gospels as is Judas's fate; in fact it points out that the one that betrays the Son of Man would be better off to have never been born. The gospel of Judas points out that Judas was simply obeying an order (from Christ) to betray Him, but this conflicts with the accounts in the canonical gospels, and it should be pretty clear in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John exactly whom Judas was being influenced by at the time.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by TimoTolkki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:09 am

In other words the story of the betrayal is harmonious across the four canonical gospels as is Judas's fate; in fact it points out that the one that betrays the Son of Man would be better off to have never been born. The gospel of Judas points out that Judas was simply obeying an order (from Christ) to betray Him, but this conflicts with the accounts in the canonical gospels, and it should be pretty clear in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John exactly whom Judas was being influenced by at the time
So let me see if I get this straight..God makes a plan that Jesus must die on the cross and thus save all mankind that believes in him (by commanding to believe) and Judas is part of the plan and is just obeying God´s will, while at the same time Satan influences him to betray Jesus that God already has decided. And yet Judas should have never been born. So all his life was merely to betray Jesus.
I think it´s time to tell the true story about the greatest lie of mankind.
That Jesus was just a human, albeit a great teacher with healing capacities, but a mortal human. He was married to Mary Magdalene and they had children together.

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by browneyedgirl » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:59 am

We will all find out one day that, indeed, Jesus Christ IS the Son of God!

God has NEVER commanded anyone to believe in Him. He allows ALL of us, small or great, rich or poor, to make our own decisions-- from our lifestyle to what religion(or none)that we choose to follow. God does not sit upon a cloud ready to hurl lightning bolts at us if we do something wrong. He gave us free will instead of making us all jellyfish.

There is absolutely NO proof that Jesus was married or had children. All that theory is is just New Age&Paganist wishful thinking, but I can understand why so many people want it to be so, though. ;)
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by miditek » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:44 am

In other words the story of the betrayal is harmonious across the four canonical gospels as is Judas's fate; in fact it points out that the one that betrays the Son of Man would be better off to have never been born. The gospel of Judas points out that Judas was simply obeying an order (from Christ) to betray Him, but this conflicts with the accounts in the canonical gospels, and it should be pretty clear in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John exactly whom Judas was being influenced by at the time
TimoTolkki wrote:So let me see if I get this straight. God makes a plan that Jesus must die on the cross and thus save all mankind that believes in him (by commanding to believe) and Judas is part of the plan and is just obeying God´s will, while at the same time Satan influences him to betray Jesus that God already has decided. And yet Judas should have never been born. So all his life was merely to betray Jesus.


In some ways, you have it almost right. God's plan was to sacrifice Jesus to save anyone that believes in Him, but that belief is strictly voluntary, not compulsory (the whole free will thing again). Also, sin is totally against God's nature, so it's not in His will to wish that anyone would sin, and that certainly included Judas. The temple police had plenty of opportunities to arrest Jesus at any time, had they wished to do so, even at times when Jesus was condemning the Sanhedrin inside the temple for their dishonesty and hypocrisy.

In other words, Judas's betrayal was not really necessary for Jesus to be arrested. (I mean, how could you miss Him when the masses followed Him almost everywhere He went?) Judas made a choice (the free will thing, again) of whom to be influenced by, and emulate, with that being Lucifer, rather than whom God would have much preferred him to emulate, with that being Jesus.
TimoTolkki wrote:I think it´s time to tell the true story about the greatest lie of mankind. That Jesus was just a human, albeit a great teacher with healing capacities, but a mortal human. He was married to Mary Magdalene and they had children together.
Actually, the Gnostic gospels may not, of course, contain the biggest lies, but they certainly rank right on up there. If Christ were merely a "great teacher", then why would he lie in a pathologically persistent and cynical manner throughout his ministry to the masses and say that He was the Son of God? Only a complete, raving, lunatic would equate himself with the Almighty, indeed, and then proclaim Himself as God Incarnate and the long awaited Messiah as well, right? What would be so great about such a delusional liar like that?

He healed people, of course, as an act of mercy and as an acknowledgment to their faith in Him, but he was no Rasputin type of faith healer. Christians of course believe the Biblical accounts of the Resurrection and of the Ascension. Let's look at it another way; Lenin is still in his tomb in Red Square, as is Stalin- (wherever they moved him to), and the location of the tombs of many biblical figures are also well known, with the exception of one- we do believe that the tomb of Christ remains empty to this day.
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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by TimoTolkki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:20 am

miditek wrote:
In other words the story of the betrayal is harmonious across the four canonical gospels as is Judas's fate; in fact it
points out that the one that betrays the Son of Man would be better off to have never been born. The gospel of Judas points out that Judas was simply obeying an order (from Christ) to betray Him, but this conflicts with the accounts in the canonical gospels, and it should be pretty clear in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John exactly whom Judas was being influenced by at the time
TimoTolkki wrote:So let me see if I get this straight. God makes a plan that Jesus must die on the cross and thus save all mankind that believes in him (by commanding to believe) and Judas is part of the plan and is just obeying God´s will, while at the same time Satan influences him to betray Jesus that God already has decided. And yet Judas should have never been born. So all his life was merely to betray Jesus.


In some ways, you have it almost right. God's plan was to sacrifice Jesus to save anyone that believes in Him, but that belief is strictly voluntary, not compulsory (the whole free will thing again). Also, sin is totally against God's nature, so it's not in His will to wish that anyone would sin, and that certainly included Judas. The temple police had plenty of opportunities to arrest Jesus at any time, had they wished to do so, even at times when Jesus was condemning the Sanhedrin inside the temple for their dishonesty and hypocrisy.

In other words, Judas's betrayal was not really necessary for Jesus to be arrested. (I mean, how could you miss Him when the masses followed Him almost everywhere He went?) Judas made a choice (the free will thing, again) of whom to be influenced by, and emulate, with that being Lucifer, rather than whom God would have much preferred him to emulate, with that being Jesus.
TimoTolkki wrote:I think it´s time to tell the true story about the greatest lie of mankind. That Jesus was just a human, albeit a great teacher with healing capacities, but a mortal human. He was married to Mary Magdalene and they had children together.
Actually, the Gnostic gospels may not, of course, contain the biggest lies, but they certainly rank right on up there. If Christ were merely a "great teacher", then why would he lie in a pathologically persistent and cynical manner throughout his ministry to the masses and say that He was the Son of God? Only a complete, raving, lunatic would equate himself with the Almighty, indeed, and then proclaim Himself as God Incarnate and the long awaited Messiah as well, right? What would be so great about such a delusional liar like that?


Not a delusional liar, but perhaps a man who had a grandiosity syndrome.
Some suggest that he was schitzophrenic. I don´t think so, I think he was cool, but just a man nevertheless. A little confused fella.
He healed people, of course, as an act of mercy and as an acknowledgment to their faith in Him, but he was no Rasputin type of faith healer. Christians of course believe the Biblical accounts of the Resurrection and of the Ascension. Let's look at it another way; Lenin is still in his tomb in Red Square, as is Stalin- (wherever they moved him to), and the location of the tombs of many biblical figures are also well known, with the exception of one- we do believe that the tomb of Christ remains empty to this day.
"Father, thy will be done" or "Father, if it is your will, take this cup from me; yet not my will but yours be done."
I think the central doctrine of Christianity is that he had to die and it was "God´s" plan. This can be found in many parts of the gospels. The gethsemane sequence being the most important where he clearly "asks for mercy, but "is told by God that there is no other way".
Whatever, the Bible is the only source for this anyway and really, the only source.

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Re: Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

Post by TimoTolkki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:08 am

browneyedgirl wrote:We will all find out one day that, indeed, Jesus Christ IS the Son of God!

God has NEVER commanded anyone to believe in Him. He allows ALL of us, small or great, rich or poor, to make our own decisions-- from our lifestyle to what religion(or none)that we choose to follow. God does not sit upon a cloud ready to hurl lightning bolts at us if we do something wrong. He gave us free will instead of making us all jellyfish.

There is absolutely NO proof that Jesus was married or had children. All that theory is is just New Age&Paganist wishful thinking, but I can understand why so many people want it to be so, though. ;)
Well that is certainly not a Christian God you are describing there.
Christianity is a religion where you must believe in Christ or you go to hell.
For example Buddhism have no hell. I think any religion that uses words: if you dont....then.... are controlling people with fear. It never ceases to amaze me how people believe all that is written or that they dont use their common sense. Religion in generally is a reason for much misery and fear.
All religions think they are the one true God´s religion. They can´t all be.
New age is indeed coming, people are waking up from a dream, from the brainwashing of thousands of years of lies and bigotry to a new kind of awarness: A loving and understanding universe that does not want to be "worshipped", has no dogmas, has no religion, has only love and logic.
It is time to raise up to that awarness and I will certainly do all I can to use whatever power I have to spread my views and beliefs in my art and interviews. It remains to be seen which "God" is more true: The Christian "if" God, or the One I described.
And you BEG sound like a spokesman for Vatican. An institution that is actually criminal and has protected its dogmas with killings and has a large financial interests all over the world.
In the end it comes down to a very simple matter: is it love or not? And although Christianity has many great things in it, its a very clever religion controlling people with fear and punishment. Attributes that dont belong to a loving father.
And lastly, there are documents that prove that Jesus was married and had children. The Gospel of Mary was discovered in 1896 in a fifth-century papyrus codex. The codex, Papyrus Berolinensis 8502 aka the Akhmim Codex, was purchased in Cairo by German scholar Carl Reinhardt.
Irenaeus mentions a Gospel of Judas in his anti-Gnostic work Adversus Haereses (Against Heresies), written in about 180.
And remember that Jesus was declared divine by Constantine that did actually create the whole Christian doctrine and left out everything that could prove Jesus was just a man. Paradoxical that the Christianity was founded by a pagan emperor that used Jesus to unite his kingdom.

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