Stratovarius Community

Check out this one, I'm sure you all heard about that:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7103566.stm

Oh, and I've heard that people in GB don't have ID's. Is that true?

Yes, true. People use passports or drivers licenses for idenification. They don't want ID cards because they feel it will erode personal freedom or privacy or something like that.

Whatever, everywhere else people have them and there aren't any problems.

Nope, we don't have ID cards, I always thought that they were something from movies!

There are no ID cards in Finland either. There's the social security card, the passport and the drivers license. Simply, there's no need for one!

Dirge, what the hell is the difference between an ID card and a passport? They contain the same info, right? My Spanish friends all have an ID card and I can tell you there's nothing 1984-ish about it.

This is quite ironic considering that GB is the country with most security cameras per capita. It's a lovely place though...

Carcass wrote: Dirge, what the hell is the difference between an ID card and a passport? They contain the same info, right? My Spanish friends all have an ID card and I can tell you there's nothing 1984-ish about it.

You can freely travel between EU countries with an ID (apart other stuff). The passport is needed if you want to go to other places.

I know my name's not Dirge, but I knew the question.

In Peru we have ID cards because it's a way to identify people for legal purposes, for example, in banks to cash a check, they have to veify that you are the person to whom the check is issued (name in the check = name in the ID card and picture in the ID card = your face).

It's true that it could be done with passports too, but not everybody has a passport 'cause it's issued if you want to travel abroad, and all poor people won't do so (it costs around US$25). The same with the driver's licence, not everybody has one, only if needed to drive a car.

And the social security number it's only issued to people who works in formal enterprises, and sadly in this society, around 30% of the population are self-employed (home small businesses) and are not registered.

That's why we need the ID card.

stratobabius wrote:

Carcass wrote: Dirge, what the hell is the difference between an ID card and a passport? They contain the same info, right? My Spanish friends all have an ID card and I can tell you there's nothing 1984-ish about it.

You can freely travel between EU countries with an ID (apart other stuff). The passport is needed if you want to go to other places.

I know my name's not Dirge, but I knew the question.

No what I meant is that how does an ID card erode your personal freedom more than a passport? Both have your photo, your name, your birthday etc...

Dawn_is_Here wrote:In Peru we have ID cards because it's a way to identify people for legal purposes, for example, in banks to cash a check, they have to veify that you are the person to whom the check is issued (name in the check = name in the ID card and picture in the ID card = your face).

...this is what I mean. In Finland you just use the social security card (if it has a picture, it costs to get one), passport or the driver's license. There's not really a big difference between these cards and an ID card.

So where does the objection stem from?

Carcass wrote:So where does the objection stem from?

I guess it's a tradition. At certain time in the past, when ID cards were being introduced in many countries, for some reason (??) they were not introduced in UK...and now it's not too much about being afraid of personal data breach, I think it's more like "why there should be ID cards when we haven't needed them until now?"

Nowadays, when everybody has number of various cards and other documents - ID card, driving licence, passport, insurance card or social security card, ISIC, library card, travel card or I don't know what else (whatever name these documents have in all the countries), I think nobody is afraid of personal data breach only because of a new card with practically the same data as you have on some other card yet!

(My ID card contains name, photo, date of birth, personal number (I think it's a Czech speciality, foreigners usually don't have it...anyway it's just another number ), sex, nationality, address, status, date of issue and validity...and the number of the ID card).
I think I can find all the PERSONAL data also somewhere else .)

The only thing to be afraid of is that you have one unnecessary card more

stratobabius wrote:You can freely travel between EU countries with an ID (apart other stuff).

Doesn't this apply only on Schengen countries? I think UK never signed the Schengen treaty...

The Nordic countries have been forerunners in opening borders in this manner. Nordic Passport Union was created in the '50s, I think.

Carcass wrote:

stratobabius wrote:You can freely travel between EU countries with an ID (apart other stuff).

Doesn't this apply only on Schengen countries? I think UK never signed the Schengen treaty...

Nah, I've travelled many times between UK and Cyprus with only my ID. Same when I went to Germany recently.

It's a lot more convenient than carrying a passport around with you in case you get asked for proof of age when purchasing alcohol or medication, or when going into a club or something and quite frankly I do not understand why people in the UK seem so against the idea...

We have ID's in Bosnia, and we also have all other documents like DL's and passports. But it's like we need it all, cuz, when PO stops you walking down the street, he asks you for ID, but when he stops you driving, he asks you for DL.

SrJo wrote:We have ID's in Bosnia, and we also have all other documents like DL's and passports. But it's like we need it all, cuz, when PO stops you walking down the street, he asks you for ID, but when he stops you driving, he asks you for DL.

Well same here, but if you don't have your driving license on you, you can give them your ID and they check the number, if you have a valid driving license your details show up.

I don't see it as an extra unecessary thing to carry around, but something that allows you to leave all your other documents at home safe and just carry one thing around

Here we don't have a social security card, and have a driver's license and an ID card to vote (literally the election ID) which is sort of the official one, as they don't allow the driver's license for clubs since those are very easy to get and you only have to be 16 (in my city) to get it.

I'm sure the government has our DNA all stored somewhere anyway

NeonVomit wrote:

SrJo wrote:We have ID's in Bosnia, and we also have all other documents like DL's and passports. But it's like we need it all, cuz, when PO stops you walking down the street, he asks you for ID, but when he stops you driving, he asks you for DL.

Well same here, but if you don't have your driving license on you, you can give them your ID and they check the number, if you have a valid driving license your details show up.

I don't see it as an extra unecessary thing to carry around, but something that allows you to leave all your other documents at home safe and just carry one thing around

That sounds resonable, but it's a crime here. You must pay if you don't have your DL when you're driving. I know that from my personal xp.