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At least 11 people dead and some injured this noon in Kauhajoki, Finland.
The 22-year old killer, Matti Juhani Saari, shot himself in the head and died few hours ago at Tampere University Hospital.
This holds remarkable similarity to shootout in Jokela school last November:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europ ... index.html
http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtm ... /09/719550

My sister studies in a similar school in the same region, so I was scared shitless when I heard about this.

Finland school toll hits 11, including gunman - MSNBC Articles
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articl ... d=26849077

This is so terrible.
My prayers&condolences to all concerned. I know that does not really help, but at a time like this there is just no words to express that can lessen the pain.

I wrote such a long and heated reply to this thread and then deleted it all, finding it a bit difficult to go back to those buried thoughts I never wrote out after the Jokela incident. It's like complaining about our leaders, we voted for them... It's the same for the media: we read and watch their shit. We allow ourselves indulge into these indicents and let the sick minds here and there absorb the prospect of becoming famous by committing an act like this. The memes are so easily transferred not by one news agency, not by one sensational story, but the whole media circus centering around it, making a messiah of that poor idiot who killed some people and himself... And sure as hell, someone out there is looking up to him as we speak. Where's the responsibility of the journalist?

Some people die in car crashes, some die cracking their skulls at home falling down the stairs...

The difference is, of these things above only ONE is infectious and seems to attract success (more deaths) with more media attention, people tend to be a bit more careful if warned about stairs or traffic and the number of casualties goes DOWN, but when it comes to school shootings, more news can so easily lead to more shootings. And how can this happen? Because nobody is or can be made directly resposible.

Jaakko wrote:Some people die in car crashes, some die cracking their skulls at home falling down the stairs...

Those are accidents. Taking a gun to school and shooting fellow students is not. The fact that media makes this so big is for me only a good thing.

The fact that there are two school-shootouts in 10 months indicates something of the mental state of the youth in this country, not mentioning our huge suicide and alcoholism-rates. It should be discussed and maybe eventually someone might do something about it.
There are too many rednecks here (especially in the Finland's Bible-Belt, Southern Ostrobothnia were Kauhajoki is situated in) who think depression and social alienation are just something you should get over from.

Mormegil wrote:

Jaakko wrote:Some people die in car crashes, some die cracking their skulls at home falling down the stairs...

Those are accidents. Taking a gun to school and shooting fellow students is not. The fact that media makes this so big is for me only a good thing.

Well you got my point. And I got yours too, I think. I just don't agree, I still feel these ideas spread before the sense behind the ideas.

Edit: I mean a simple slogan can make people crazy right now, but to really think about it takes time and life lived. I feel the media should have some responsibility and sense of decency (whatever that means, I'm not known for being "decent") in what they report and show to the minds that can be bent.

the people began to be crazy some years ago but nobody wanted see it, I guess, the people're lossing the faith and the hope on something better for the future, they don't find a razon to live easily and if some one bother to some guy he or she could loss her/his mind, the hatred will be stronger and he or she could think that he or she doesn't have nothing to loss.

I'm thinking that I said something obvious but some times we need to hear that

rule number one of suicide:
kill self first and only
rule number two of suicide:
look at rule number one

With suicide there are no rules and there is no reason.
Maybe there should be more time dedicated to making people happy and more discussion about life and its possibilities.

It's hard to hear stuff like this...

Heard it on the news on the radio when I came home for lunch this afternoon. This is awful =/

It's the other people's fault, leaving them alone and depressed.

Yes, the more "higher" the country gets, the more unhappy the people are.

There is no true correlation between material wealth and happiness. Reaction to circumstances is entirely up to an individual and that individual’s individual brain and the chemical balances and imbalances on the beam of brain.
Or do you mean like in the North Pole Santa and his elves are pissed off mother fuckers and in the South Pole there are happy little penguins bouncing all about?

icecab21 wrote: Or do you mean like in the North Pole Santa and his elves are pissed off mother fuckers and in the South Pole there are happy little penguins bouncing all about?

Nono I meant the other way, though I'm pretty sure that the penquins around the world are really happy, no worries.

Icecab, there are a lot more depressive people in northern areas than in southern areas.

Even in the same country, that happens. Here in Spain the people living in the north (Galicia for example) suffer a lot more depressions that the rest.

And the psychologist and psychiatrist found one of the reasons because of the lack of sun.

People have a lot more depressions in winter than in summer, for example.

RazielSR wrote:
People have a lot more depressions in winter than in summer, for example.

True.

But what happened is far beyond this fact...

It's always shocking to hear such news, I always think it could happen in my country, in my city...

eagledreamr wrote:

RazielSR wrote:
People have a lot more depressions in winter than in summer, for example.

True.

But what happened is far beyond this fact...

It's always shocking to hear such news, I always think it could happen in my country, in my city...

Yes, I agree.

Things like this are different, but I see finland as a very calm and peaceful country, so I just can't understand things like that.

If you want to light a candle for the victims of Kauhajoki, you will find the link here :
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... =435607780

That's really nice.

Those .22 calibre pistols should be banned right away, two shooting incidents within a year should convince the decision-makers. They are nothing but dangerous toys and serve no real purpose.

Carcass wrote:Those .22 calibre pistols should be banned right away, two shooting incidents within a year should convince the decision-makers. They are nothing but dangerous toys and serve no real purpose.

But in spite of the fact that pistols were banned people would find other means to kill, harm or whatever. I think it's like all those advances in technology, science, biology...They shouldn't be forbidden because they can be used to improve things and for our sake. If some things happen is not because all these advances exist. The problem is what WE use all these things for. Human's mind is sometimes really really evil and twisted. If all those efforts we make to do evil were invested in doing good deeds this world would be a very different place. But we'll never change.

Lurdi wrote:

Carcass wrote:Those .22 calibre pistols should be banned right away, two shooting incidents within a year should convince the decision-makers. They are nothing but dangerous toys and serve no real purpose.

But in spite of the fact that pistols were banned people would find other means to kill, harm or whatever. I think it's like all those advances in technology, science, biology...They shouldn't be forbidden because they can be used to improve things and for our sake. If some things happen is not because all these advances exist. The problem is what WE use all these things for. Human's mind is sometimes really really evil and twisted. If all those efforts we make to do evil were invested in doing good deeds this world would be a very different place. But we'll never change.

Banning these toys is not a definitive solution, but it's a good place to start. .22 calibre (=small bullets) handguns that were used in both school-shooting incidents in Finland are not useful for anything, except shooting pigeons and... well, people. They are not accurate enough to be used for target shooting. Handguns that are designed for that come with longer barrels.

One could argue that these handguns should be available for self-protection, but in Finland very few people buy a gun for protection. Despite these two incidents, streets in Finland are safe and gun-related crimes rare.

This was a terrible thing, and my prayers and thoughts go out to all Finns. Very sad.

By the way, it was nothing that small such as mind illness or depression or something.

He had planned it since 2002.

I've read on some internet pages that he didn't die at the scene, they say that he shot himself but survived and that he's being treated in Tampere, is this true?

AGAG wrote:I've read on some internet pages that he didn't die at the scene, they say that he shot himself but survived and that he's being treated in Tampere, is this true?

He died some hours after he shot himself in the head.

exe knight wrote:By the way, it was nothing that small such as mind illness or depression or something.

He had planned it since 2002.

Thats a long time to hold a grudge. IMO, I think something was terribly wrong with him. Didn't any of his family or friends notice his thinking? I mean, obviously. People this ill send out signals long before they do something this horrid.

An interesting article:
Could this be possible, or just speculation?

Finnish massacres 'may be linked'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/7634937.stm

Very sad My thoughts go to the families of the victims and those recovering in hospital.

Our politicians are incredibly short-sighted, all they keep talking about is restrictions on gun ownership. I agree that they should be in place, but this is not the root cause. More welfare officers and nurses in schools, and more money allocated to mental health treatment. Should not be a problem, the government will cut taxes by 800 million euros in the budget for next year. It took two shooting-incidents before the government started to seriously discuss tightening gun laws, and still no talk about serious measures.

Also, the Finnish education system is very efficient. Too efficient, I would say. Compared to other Nordic Countries schoolchildren in Finland are not feeling well at all. Other European countries that intend to reform their education systems in the wake of the Pisa study should think twice. I know that at least Spain is very keen on looking at Finland as an example on educational issues.

Carcass wrote:Also, the Finnish education system is very efficient. Too efficient, I would say. Compared to other Nordic Countries schoolchildren in Finland are not feeling well at all. Other European countries that intend to reform their education systems in the wake of the Pisa study should think twice. I know that at least Spain is very keen on looking at Finland as an example on educational issues.

More about this here.

It's in Swedish, though. According to Stakes (National Research and Development Centre for Welfare and Health) 150 million euros would be sufficient for a comprehensive mental and physical school health care.

I was reading the pisa study some days ago, and I was surprised to see finland on the first place, but you said that the finnish educational system is Too efficient, how come? shouldn't this level of education be a model for the other countries to follow?? or would this somehow cause problems in the future for the students?

exe knight wrote:It's the other people's fault, leaving them alone and depressed.

Yes, the more "higher" the country gets, the more unhappy the people are.

not only in the geographical sense, but also in the social and economic sense. In some studies, we the people in developing countries are happier than the people in developed countries. I think it's because of that living here is not so easy, so our mind is centered in enough things to feel unhappy. I'm not saying that we don't have depression and mental illnesses, but it don't reveal and affect the population as deep as it happens in more developed (and northern) countries.

My good wishes to the victims of this tragedy, and for the poor cop that is in the hospital.