Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Talk about everything else besides Stratovarius here in English. Please try to put more serious topics here, and silly topics in the Spam section.

How will Obama perform as Prez of USA?

Limp as a dishrag. DOA.
2
6%
As well as can be expected after Bush.
0
No votes
Give him time, he will do a good job!
9
29%
Obama will prove to be one of the greatest presidents in the past century.
5
16%
Err--Lets wait a couple years before we judge the man!
15
48%
 
Total votes: 31

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by stratohawk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:29 pm

Shurik wrote: Lose - live in constant fear or die.
Exactly. That's the great contradiction, which devides us here in the forum, and in the world, in two groups.
There are many people that prefer to live in fear, surrounded by observation means 24/7, told by politicians and media all the time, that the threat is immense, but with more and more effort, the cause (terrorists) can be annihilated.
And there are other, that don't want to accept that every single facette of their individual life can be x-rayed, that their personal rights are impaired until there's nothing left, and live with a higher risk (is it a risk?) of attacks. These are the ones (and fortunately Obama counts to them), that also have the opinion, that not only violence is the answer.

Obama just told Al Arabija, directed to the muslim world "We (the Americans) are not your enemies". God bless you, we have waited too long for such reason and rationality.

We all know that there will be throwbacks. I hope that Obama and his people can stand this, also when public opinion turns against them, when the fast success is missing.

And if regime-devoted Irani students now burn Obama pictures, who cares. They don't represent a majority. The majority of the muslims in the Arab world prefer to live in peace and prosper, which their own corrupt governments often cannot provide.
Let's give the "new partnership" (Obama) a chance.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by NeonVomit » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:19 pm

Shurik wrote:
Carcass wrote:
Shurik wrote:I think this thread is long lost to the Godwin's law ...
Human rights, rule of law, etc. That is what seperates the civilised world from those who seek to destroy it.
So, fighting Al-Quaeda and such by their means and winning is worse than fighting according to all the western laws and losing? Weird tactic, I'd say ...
To begin with, I would like to know what 'losing' and 'winning' mean in this case.

Like the British Foreign Secretary put it some time ago, the label of War on Terrorism is massively misleading.
Quite simple ... Win - you get to live in peace and quiet, you can ride buses, go to clubs and restaurants etc without a danger of being blown up.
Lose - live in constant fear or die, depends on your luck.

BTW, Geneva Convention doesn't forbid attacking civilian target in any case. If an enemy surrounds himself with human shield, it's perfectly OK to blow him up with the shield. Same goes to enemy holed up in any civilian installation, after a warning has been issued and was ignored:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/geneva07.asp
Art. 19. The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded. The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants which have not yet been handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.

So blowing up civilians is essentially okay in your book? Oddly enough, it's what the terrorists do, which is what makes them terrorists...

Plus the underlying issues of whichever situation do need to be addressed, it's no good fighting an endless war. Violence only breeds more violence. As long as there are people on both sides who wish for an end to the madness, there is hope and it has to be given a chance.

What really pisses me off about the whole Israeli-Arab conflict is that both sides believe God is on their side and that gives them the right to do whatever they want. How is the situation supposed to move foreward if both have their minds 2000 years in the past?
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by stratohawk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:33 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
Shurik wrote:
Carcass wrote:
Shurik wrote:I think this thread is long lost to the Godwin's law ...
Human rights, rule of law, etc. That is what seperates the civilised world from those who seek to destroy it.
So, fighting Al-Quaeda and such by their means and winning is worse than fighting according to all the western laws and losing? Weird tactic, I'd say ...
To begin with, I would like to know what 'losing' and 'winning' mean in this case.

Like the British Foreign Secretary put it some time ago, the label of War on Terrorism is massively misleading.
Quite simple ... Win - you get to live in peace and quiet, you can ride buses, go to clubs and restaurants etc without a danger of being blown up.
Lose - live in constant fear or die, depends on your luck.

BTW, Geneva Convention doesn't forbid attacking civilian target in any case. If an enemy surrounds himself with human shield, it's perfectly OK to blow him up with the shield. Same goes to enemy holed up in any civilian installation, after a warning has been issued and was ignored:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/geneva07.asp
Art. 19. The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded. The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants which have not yet been handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.

So blowing up civilians is essentially okay in your book? Oddly enough, it's what the terrorists do, which is what makes them terrorists...
There you go... This summarizes it all up.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by JensJohansson » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:12 pm

miditek wrote:I say send them to live at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., in addition to the Senate and Congressional office buildings - let them sleep under Nancy Pelosi's or Harry Reid's desk!
That would be sort of funny. Or at either the Bush or Cheney family ranches..
After the building was secured, the ranking FSB colonel on the scene removed the C4 detenators from the hands of each of the twenty unconscious female suicide bombers, and then promptly shot each one of them in the head.
As a politician, if you want to allow that sort of stuff you also need to control the press and speech in general, and be very safe that you will be reelected. Neither of those are possible in the US. I tend to think that's a good thing, they were some of the important reasons why the US outlasted the USSR and not the other way around..
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:Anyway...of course Obama is no Hitler. [...] I was hoping more for layoffs but regardless :D. I also like the idea of more transparency and less corporate influence in politics.

I'm just afraid that the voters eventually will elect a Hitler...if not this election, then the next. If not a Democrat, then a Republican. I think America is a great place but we are way too influenced by the media and this mob mentality must stop.
"I knew Hitler... Obama, you're no Hitler!"

Let's see in 4 or 8 years. I'm hoping for the best for Prince Obama, but as they say, the higher you climb, the greater you fall. Maybe he will have some old scandal come up haunting him too.... like everyone else in politics seems to have. And if he doesn't, I'm sure someone will make one up just to distract from the issues that matter.
browneyedgirl wrote:Do some research and send them to the countries whose citizenry or leaders complained the most about Gitmo and let them take care of those criminals. However, Gitmo was draining tax dollars which could be put to better use to help USA citizens themselves.
I think a lot of people in the US were also very vocal about closing it. Maybe you have space in your back yard for a sorta-reformed terrorist tent camp, Palestine style?? :)
Yes, Dems hold the majority in both house&senate, but the right can fight Obama tooth and nail on everything he proposes.....And, greatly delay much needed improvements, and laws. Just for spite? Maybe. The point is, the right is going to make Obama earn his keep as commander-in-chief. And there's not a damn thing he can do about it.
It's a much more precarious thing now than 4 or 8 years ago to be using "obstructionist" tactics, because unemployment and other general hardship in the US middle class are so much more in focus.

The war is far away and everyday economic reality is close.

I have a feeling that someone laid off in the midwest would sacrifice a couple of NYC world trade center towers more if he or she thought it helped...
Carcass wrote:Like the British Foreign Secretary put it some time ago, the label of War on Terrorism is massively misleading.
I agree. Terrorism is not rooted out by military hardware, it's rooted out by police work and good intelligence. 100 Arabic speaking translators can do many magnitudes more damage to Al Qaeda than 100 US Marines.

Also, the western intelligence services (including the FSB) evolved in games against very sophisticated adversaries. In this day and age, for these guys, "spying" on Al Qaeda is probably like stealing candy from a child..
stratohawk wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:
Shurik wrote: BTW, Geneva Convention doesn't forbid attacking civilian target in any case. If an enemy surrounds himself with human shield, it's perfectly OK to blow him up with the shield.
So blowing up civilians is essentially okay in your book? Oddly enough, it's what the terrorists do, which is what makes them terrorists...
There you go... This summarizes it all up.
Actually this story (courtesy of Jörg) to me sums it up.

There was a Borussia Dortmund fan who by mistake ended up in the Schalke section of a soccer game. The Schalke fans outnumbered him, forced him take his shoes off, and to go get them beer whenever they ran out. Every time he came back they had shit in his shoes. He emptied his shoes with a pained look on his face and continued to watch the game, until the Schalke mob made him go get more beer for them and repeated the whole thing.

After the game was over he was interviewed by a TV crew as he exited the stadium. They asked him what he thought the age-old enmity between the two soccer teams. He answered, "Tja, as long as they shit in our shoes and we piss in their beer I don't expect things to change much."

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:30 pm

Obama will try to bring peace to the world, but Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton tried really hard, too, and there was no lasting solution.

The majority of Muslims, Christians, Jews etc are peaceful people, but the few who are not peaceful "take up the slack" for those who are. It only takes a few troublemakers to create chaos(9/11)in the world.

We must try to support Obama in his peace efforts, but always we must keep in mind he is not a Messiah with a Midas touch. The outcome of his proposals also depend on whether the other side will accept the olive branch, and hold to any agreements that are made.
Well, at least Obama has appeared to make the first steps.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by miditek » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:40 pm

Americans and Europeans can be very stupid and gullible when it comes to deciphering enemy propaganda. If Hamas are using human shields, which I am cerain that they are, then that is all the more reason to go in and take them out.

Hiding behind buqua-clad women does not make one heroic, and human shields instantly transform a civilan target to a military one, and Hamas knows this and then uses a sympathetic mass media to manipulate public opinion.

Anyone covering their face and brandishing an AK-47 in Gaza should immediately be targeted for a Predator or Apache airstrike.

Over 10,000 French civilians were killed during the bombings in preparation for the invasion at Normandy, but I assume there were no complaints since it was their asses that had to be liberated from the Hun.
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:50 pm


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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by icecab21 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:44 pm

People in Palestine get to live in fear of extremists on both sides. Not having power has put so many in unfortunate circumstances. Just like the Russians made their men fight or die, there are rather coercive tactics in play with Palestine. then we have myth and fact pages saying that all Palestinians are guilty terrorists since they won't fight armed militants to the death or because a minority of them voted in a party that would still be doing what it's doing whether or not it was elected,

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by miditek » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 pm

icecab21 wrote:People in Palestine get to live in fear of extremists on both sides. Not having power has put so many in unfortunate circumstances. Just like the Russians made their men fight or die, there are rather coercive tactics in play with Palestine. then we have myth and fact pages saying that all Palestinians are guilty terrorists since they won't fight armed militants to the death or because a minority of them voted in a party that would still be doing what it's doing whether or not it was elected,
@icecab- when you say extremists on both sides, does that indicate Hamas on one hand and Fatah (or Hezbollah) on the other? The IDF wouldn't be broadcasting warnings via cell and leaflets if they were bloodthirsty fanatics. Does Hamas provide similar warnings.to Israeli civilians prior to launching rockets or sending out suicide bombers?

Moreover, you can't have it both ways regarding the 'election' of Hamas- by saying that they are the legitimate government elected by the majority of Palestinians and then claiming that only a small minority of people support them.

Hamas is already causing trouble again by attacking Israeli patrols- and I hope that that Israel finishes the job the next time IDF goes into Gaza. Netanyahu will probably be PM soon, and I seriously doubt that he will tolerate any foolishness from a group that never wanted peace to begin with.

Regarding the Russians, comparingg them to the Palestinians isn't exactly comparing apples with apples- Stalin forced them to stand fast in order to prevent the collapse of the entire country, and Hitler's broadcasts, promising a war of annihilation, were rebroadcast to the Soviet public.

If Israel wished to destroy every living person in Gaza (as Hitler wished upon Russia and, I might add, a lifelong dream of Hamas regarding Israel), then it is certainly within their military capability to do just that, although that is quite obviously not the goal of the Jewish people.
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by icecab21 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:54 pm

I don’t call the USA election one where the majority elected Obama. He got 10 million more than McCain and McCain only got 50 million out of 350 million Americans. Sort of my feelings that no government is voted in by the majority of its citizens. In the least the people that are not able to vote should not be guilty for the votes of those that can.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 11769.html

It’s not like the people of Israel are all leading peaceful lives in together with the Palestinians and only the Palestinians’ are causing trouble. There are groups of ex solders that talk about their experiences of what they witnessed during their time in the army. aside from the rockets and bombs, there are other ishues of how the people get treated that i consider acts of terror.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by NeonVomit » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:29 pm

miditek wrote: Anyone covering their face and brandishing an AK-47 in Gaza should immediately be targeted for a Predator or Apache airstrike.
I like how you think this will solve the problem.

Sigh.
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:27 am

I think a lot of people in the US were also very vocal about closing it. Maybe you have space in your back yard for a sorta-reformed terrorist tent camp, Palestine style?? :)
Well, Jens, if the captives bring their own drinks and toilet paper, why not? :D I have an electric fence around the perimeter of my yard(plus other security measures)so, the guys would feel right at home! Also, every morning I would serve them bacon, eggs and homemade biscuits. (oops, I forgot---torture is illegal) :D

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by JensJohansson » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:17 am

browneyedgirl wrote:Also, every morning I would serve them bacon, eggs and homemade biscuits. (oops, I forgot---torture is illegal) :D
In the interest of small government, skip the biscuits and eggs and make it an all-bacon buffet :)

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:13 am

JensJohansson wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:Also, every morning I would serve them bacon, eggs and homemade biscuits. (oops, I forgot---torture is illegal) :D
In the interest of small government, skip the biscuits and eggs and make it an all-bacon buffet :)
Yeah, all that fat! :yuk:
The other option could be to force them to watch SAW movies 12 hours a day! :lol: Thats torture! Literally. :err:
Let Costas Manglelor do the interrorgating! :lol:
One way to keep detainees in line would be to use one of those shotgun shell collars on them. It would not even have to be real---just the idea would be enough. Man, whoever creates the ideas for those SAW movies is kinda sick/warped. :err: Has anyone offered Dick&Bush that job yet? ???

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:26 am

The worst torture of all would be to subject them to Paula "Hiya Yall" Dean's cooking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv8yEMRDe_w

The worst thing about it is that part of me wants to eat it :D

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:07 pm

Back on topic:
Israeli warplanes hit smuggling tunnels in Gaza
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articl ... d=28887926

Palestinians started their shit again. They just love those rockets!

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by miditek » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:15 pm

JensJohansson wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:Also, every morning I would serve them bacon, eggs and homemade biscuits. (oops, I forgot---torture is illegal) :D
In the interest of small government, skip the biscuits and eggs and make it an all-bacon buffet :)
An all pork diet for the jihadists- now we're talking! Never mind all the people they've decapitated, all that bacon would be a one-way ticket to the deepest caverns of Hell for sure! :lol:

Swine to the rescue-! Obongo are you listening? :)
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:37 pm

What irks me is that, before the election, everyone treated Obama as if he was a god who was going to come and "change" everything with one flick of the wand. Now that he's been elected, the general sentiment seems to be that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations; there's only so much he can do. That would make a great campaign slogan by the way.

Obama 2008
"There's only so much he can do".

...

Obama said that things will get worse before they get better...he never emphasized this point before the election. He manipulated the voter base by making promises he can't keep, and promises he doesn't have to keep because that's not the reason he was elected. People liked him for arbitrary reasons, then justified it through nonsense like change and hope as an afterthought, notions he has largely dismissed upon election, probably because he realizes how meaningless they are. What did he think, McCain was advocating "despair"?

And now he has "faced the arab world" and said "we're not your enemy". I suspected this! The 9/11 attacks were actually targeted towards Canada, they probably hit us by mistake. :roll: Now with this outstanding security measure we can dismantle the Department of Defense.

Maybe the real reason the fanatic Muslims hate America is because of all the pork-barrel spending. We should switch to halal-beef barrel spending :D

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:54 pm

Remember this song and all of you guys win!

http://pi.ytmnd.com/

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by miditek » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:09 am

And in other news..... Obongo and a select group of Clintonite retreads (rumored to include the butcher of Waco and Ruby Ridge herself, former attorney general, Janet Reno) scheduling a flight to Mogadishu to "listen" to Somali pirates, and to reassure them, "we are not your enemy." :lol:
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by STINKY_PREGNANT_MAN » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:50 am

Hello friends! I apologize for jerking you around with my own views but I would like to ejaculate my thoughts into this thread. I rarely impregnate my mind with petty political arguments, but this conversation has aroused my interest and erected a thought into my head.

Obama is a wonderful president!! But I am weary of his economic proposals.

Lets just say that the last time someone rolled out their "giant stimulus package", it wasn't a very pleasant experience.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:40 pm

miditek wrote:And in other news..... Obongo and a select group of Clintonite retreads (rumored to include the butcher of Waco and Ruby Ridge herself, former attorney general, Janet Reno) scheduling a flight to Mogadishu to "listen" to Somali pirates, and to reassure them, "we are not your enemy." :lol:
Ruby Ridge took place in August 1992 under George H.W.Bush's watch a few months BEFORE Clinton was elected.
Reno did not come in until early 1993 because Clinton had some problems finalizing the other 2 AG nominees. Actualy, Reno did not butcher the people in Waco---an investigation consisting of both Repubs&Dems concluded the cult leader, David Koresh was to blame for the fire, after all, it was HIS voice(not Reno's)on the audiotapes which ordered his followers to spread kerosene and light it.

Well, that was 1993. If Waco happened today I'm sure it would have a different ending because Obama's AG is Holder--an African American. Approximately 1/3 of the people who died at Waco were Black.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:07 pm

Why is everyone saying Obama is African American by the way? His mother is white isn't she; that makes him 50% white 50% black or is it that his father's genes (or the darker genes) are more important in an unfounded sort of way in biological terms.

Mixed race or mulatto is more appropriate I think.
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by miditek » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:49 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:Why is everyone saying Obama is African American by the way? His mother is white isn't she; that makes him 50% white 50% black or is it that his father's genes (or the darker genes) are more important in an unfounded sort of way in biological terms.

Mixed race or mulatto is more appropriate I think.
Well said. Obongo's late mother was white, so in the genaelogical sense, it is scientifically accurate to assert that he is America's first mulatto president.

My brother-in-law, a Caucasian that is a native of Cape Town South Africa, veteran of their army, and more recently, a naturalized U.S. citizen, could probably lay claim to the title 'African American' more so than most black people. ;)
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:35 am

I think African American should be a term for the ancestors of the slaves brought here against their will. I’m not sure that if Obama was full blood ex slave that he would have gotten the support. Obama, with a father from Africa and a white mother, has not had the same cultural experiences that a southern descendant of slaves would have. I would consider the opportunities that Obama has had gives him a perspective on race relations that can really help this country become more of a community.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by Neorave » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:52 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:Why is everyone saying Obama is African American by the way? His mother is white isn't she; that makes him 50% white 50% black or is it that his father's genes (or the darker genes) are more important in an unfounded sort of way in biological terms.

Mixed race or mulatto is more appropriate I think.
My dad and I were talking about that. They all say that he is the first "African American President", but he's not fully 100% African American.
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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:21 am

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by Carcass » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:13 am

Neorave wrote:
Bathory Killcraft wrote:Why is everyone saying Obama is African American by the way? His mother is white isn't she; that makes him 50% white 50% black or is it that his father's genes (or the darker genes) are more important in an unfounded sort of way in biological terms.

Mixed race or mulatto is more appropriate I think.
My dad and I were talking about that. They all say that he is the first "African American President", but he's not fully 100% African American.
1)His mother is American
2)His father is African
3)?
4)He's not African American

I'm not following you.

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by stratohawk » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:56 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol:

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Re: Great Expectations: the Obama Era is about to begin!

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:14 pm

Who is that cat?
Karl Rove?
:lol:
Why not throw a shoe instead.
:lol:

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