VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

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rini
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by rini » Sun May 31, 2009 10:38 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Carcass wrote:Really, do you? You keep bringing gayness up quite a lot.
That's because I want the world to get rid of this plague :)
So you want me to die. Thanks alot.

hiro23
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Sun May 31, 2009 10:54 pm

I fear we are fanning the flames of something very bad here, we are getting off track of the subject and I fear this will lead to a very serious problem.
metal feeds the beast

Ragehead91
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun May 31, 2009 10:56 pm

The thing is that most of the "flame" topic are either Tolkki based or very, very dark humor based jokes. And I think this guy is serious. We should get back to topic or lock the whole thing.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Sun May 31, 2009 10:59 pm

That's what I'm talking about, it's not even your simple flames topic, this is something that could turn out very badly and I'd rather avoid any unneccasary confrontations.

I'm right with you that we should stay on the varg topic.
metal feeds the beast

Ragehead91
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun May 31, 2009 11:03 pm

Okay, so do you think he will do another Burzum CD? I can't remember if he wanted to continue his musical carrere or not.

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Carcass
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Carcass » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:10 am

rini wrote:
Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Carcass wrote:Really, do you? You keep bringing gayness up quite a lot.
That's because I want the world to get rid of this plague :)
So you want me to die. Thanks alot.
Haha I don't know whether to interpret that smiley in a creepy or sarcastic sense.

Nah, I bet he's just trolling.

Ragehead91
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:18 am

Carcass wrote:
rini wrote:
Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Carcass wrote:Really, do you? You keep bringing gayness up quite a lot.
That's because I want the world to get rid of this plague :)
So you want me to die. Thanks alot.
Haha I don't know whether to interpret that smiley in a creepy or sarcastic sense.

Nah, I bet he's just trolling.
Judging by his post about Gaahl not. I mean, I don't think Gaahl will change the music he makes just because he is gay. He will continue to do what he did before. No reason to hate him.

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Carcass
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Carcass » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:34 am

Ok, I thought that thing about Gaahl was some kind of joke. I didn't know he's gay.

Took some balls to come out, knowing how homophobic the scene is.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:45 am

Carcass wrote:Ok, I thought that thing about Gaahl was some kind of joke. I didn't know he's gay.

Took some balls to come out, knowing how homophobic the scene is.
Yeah. And I already heard and read a lot of shit about that. It is really sad.

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:26 am

rini wrote:So you want me to die. Thanks alot.
There's a long list ahead of you, don't worry :)
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:33 am

Ragehead91 wrote:
Carcass wrote:Ok, I thought that thing about Gaahl was some kind of joke. I didn't know he's gay.

Took some balls to come out, knowing how homophobic the scene is.
Yeah. And I already heard and read a lot of shit about that. It is really sad.
Well I'm actually serious. But I can also admit it was a very brave thing to do, to come out and say it publicly. This is, in a way black metal, he knew the shit he would get for it but went ahead with it anyway. I admire him for doing that - I hate him for being gay.

Basically I don't understand why people can't say things like "I don't like gay people" in public. What's wrong with it? Another PC BS thing?
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

Ragehead91
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:38 am

There is just no reason for hating them. They're normal ppl like you and me. They only have partners of the same sex but I don't see what is so bad about this. I myself am not homosexual but I don't have problems with homosexual men. They should just stay away from my anus so to speak :lol:

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:49 am

Ragehead91 wrote:There is just no reason for hating them. They're normal ppl like you and me. They only have partners of the same sex but I don't see what is so bad about this. I myself am not homosexual but I don't have problems with homosexual men. They should just stay away from my anus so to speak :lol:
That's the problem, they are not doing this at all. They are stuffing their sexual orientation as blatantly to your face as possible and even worse they totally control the world of media and entertainment. To the point of blatantly advocating homosexuality not only as a something normal but also as the coolest thing after sliced bread. Plus if you want to get anywhere in showbiz you have to toy around and get by their rules. Sadly.

Now don't get me wrong, 99% of people of same-sex orientation (gosh, I am so using PC bulshit terms) are born that way. You don't become homosexual by choice. It's genetic and you can't blame it on them at all.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

Ragehead91
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:00 am

Ah, yes, okay. You know what? Fuck it. Your post just showed me that there is no way to continue this disscusion with a homophobic arsehole like you. All Gays are evil and trie to take over the world...yeah...of course... :roll:

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icecab21
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:32 am

Hate is unhealthy.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:09 am

As I said this is something that will not end well, this conversation is not productive at all and it's just going to end up in a lot of meaningless hate being thrown around.

I seriously fear that a can of worms has been opened up already.
metal feeds the beast

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icecab21
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:54 am

lets look at some prison tests

The Personal Development Test (Cassel & Chow, 2002) seeks to adapt the global assessment of functioning more specifically to the personal development and maturity of individuals. It is based largely on John Dewey's definition of a democracy the interdependence of independent individuals.

1. Self-esteem--An individual's perception of self-worth as well as peers' depicted worth or feelings of importance of self.
2. Coping Skills--Individual's ability to develop and use effective skills needed to complete tasks successfully.
3. Positive Assertiveness--Positive actions that are directed to offensive and defensive strategies for goal attainment.
4. Locus of Control--Full acceptance and belief that personal success is not a matter of 'luck,' but rather personal decision making.
5. Team Membership--An individual's continuous acceptance and actions are always in full agreement with values and practices of own group membership.
6. Sympathy--An individual's continued ability and practice to empathize and feel the pains of all people and animals.
7. Self-efficacy--The full exercise of control through personal expectations with the necessary expansion of actions to complete task successfully.
8. Caring--Whatever happens to one person or animal anywhere in the world is important to all people everywhere.

The Cognitive Dissonance Test (Cassel & Chow, 2002, Chow, 2001) was developed according to Festinger's theory to serve as a means for helping individuals discover and identify such areas of "cognitive dissonance;" so that on a conscious level they might plan for ways to eliminate them. DISS is designed with the view that the psychologist and even the guidance counselor are capable of employing the same theory being used by the psychiatrist in psychoanalysis, but in a much more simplified manner. Four of the eight part scores are included within the Internal and Personal areas of one's life space; while the other four part scores are from the External and Impersonal areas.
1. Home--The period involving the early rearing of the child and the support system that is involved in that period of life.
2. Emotional--The feeling and emotional development in relation to interacting with others.
3. Moral--Acceptance and following of the rules and laws of the land and becoming a role model for others.
4. Health--Physical and mental health of individual as displayed in the personal development process.
5. School--The educational and learning processes.
6. Social--The interrelations between the individual and the rest of society.
7. Survival--The continued growth of an individual and his/her ability to affect the environment and others.
8. Race--The general acceptance of all others and the ability to interact with them in a meaningful way.



I don't think Varg would measure up here very well.

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Carcass
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Carcass » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:17 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:Basically I don't understand why people can't say things like "I don't like gay people" in public. What's wrong with it? Another PC BS thing?
Actually I hear quite a lot of that. Couple of weeks ago gays were compared to dogs in the Finnish parliament.

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sanichi
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by sanichi » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:52 am

This conversation seems kind of destructive indeed. I really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women. I mean, what's wrong with finding the own sex more attractive than the other? I'm not a lesbian or anything, but two very good friends of mine are gay and really one of the most loveliest people I know. And they're not trying to force their sexual orientation on other man or anything. I think we should just respect each other, it's not like we were still living in the middle ages.

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:06 pm

sanichi wrote:I really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women.
I also really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate people who tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women. And also call them arschlöcher :)
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:00 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
sanichi wrote:I really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women.
I also really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate people who tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women. And also call them arschlöcher :)
Although this guy, whose real name is Kristian Larsson Vikernes btw, has some of the most ridiculous ideas regarding music for example (he cathegorizes music to 4 different groups), I don't think he is "fit to live in the society".
Now I myself don't believe in the concept of society and how it is formed and how much people are controlled but that doesn't make me go and physically hurt other people or their properties.
He says he is ready to return to society, but:

"In October 2003, Vikernes failed to return to his low-security prison in Tønsberg, Norway after having been granted a short leave. He was found riding in a stolen Volvo car, which, according to the media, contained an unloaded AG3 automatic rifle, a handgun, numerous large knives, a gas mask, camouflage clothing, a laptop, a compass, a Global Positioning System, various maps and a fake passport (it is thought that Vikernes came to be in possession of this equipment by means of a military barracks). For this thirteen months were added to his sentence, and he was then moved to a maximum-security prison in Trondheim. He has since been moved again, this time to Tromsø Prison".

So then this "fit for society" must have happened in 6 years and I don't think it's possible. Maybe it is. As much as I detest some stuff he writes, at the same time I think he is right in many things. I hope that he could live in his farm and make his music and maybe write. I think everybody can see from the picture that he has had it quite hard and looks much older than his age. So perhaps it's good to leave him be. Either he is a psychopath and is gonna do something really over the top or he understands that he can do other things as well. I don't think he is an idiot at all, I think he is quite intelligent actually. But the violence I cannot tolerate, he should keep away from that.

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sanichi
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by sanichi » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Bathory Killkraft wrote:I also really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate people who tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women. And also call them arschlöcher :)
Wow, what an original and creative way to express an insult, congratulations!

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:33 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
sanichi wrote:I really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women.
I also really don't see why so many people tend to dislike or even hate people who tend to dislike or even hate gay men and women. And also call them arschlöcher :)
Because everything you've said so far to justify your hate is complete and utter homophobic bullshit and completly wrong! Do yourself a favour and read what you wrote yesterday! I've never before encountered shit like this. Gays "totally control the world of media and entertainment and being gay is the cooles thing since sliced bread and you have to drop your pants and bend over to make it somewhere in the biz...Please tell me, what world are you living in to belive such horseshit? I dunno where you come from but here in germany faggot is (sadly) still an insult for a lot of people and not a compliment. I know things have become a lot better for homosexuals compared to the past but overall I won't say that they're completly "integrated" if you will. But what you say is just rubbish.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Mehida » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:35 pm

I would be disappointed if Varg releases a new album with Burzum.
I know he, since 1999, stopped releasing albums from the jail, because he had to decide between a keyboard or a computer, and he choosed the second one.
So, he wasn't able to record new music (although as far as I know there exist some softwares which can emulate keyboards).

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icecab21
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:49 pm

Do these people that hate gays have dialogue with gays or do they just get in an isolated groups and circle jerk over dehumanizing others and being close minded towards cohabitation? I think apthathy towards gays is at least one step in the right direction although it is still not healthy. I think both sides have normal and extremes, and that when the extremes turn into “ live and let live” that will help a lot

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:23 pm

Let me get something straight.

I can love, hate, like, dislike, anything and anyone I want and I won't even think twice or ask for permission. Democracy gives me this right as I understand it. Not that I need it.

I am under no obligation to like gay people nor I will ask you. It's all bulshit and guess what, gay people suck !!!

Just deal with it and get over it poseurs.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:56 pm

Poseurs?

First off you are right in the assessment that you can have your own opinion, however your views are hanging on the extreme here.
Hating someone just because they are gay is not a valid reason for hating someone, I don't know why you feel this way but obviously your not going to change your mind.

You seem to have the attitude that your opinion is the only valid opinion here, this may not be intentional but it was very much implied in many of the posts you have made. You also seem to have the attitude that anything old should be disregarded and thrown out, I'm sure you have your reason's for these views however it doesn't change the fact that they are indeed extreme views.

but then again I'm pretty sure this is not going to register as I've seen your pretty quick to disregard any view that conflicts with yours.


As far as the Varg issue goes I don't think he should have been released, however he is out and I guess only time will tell whether he just lives in seclusion as he says he wants or he gets himself into serious trouble again, although if he does I hope no one gets hurt or killed this time.
metal feeds the beast

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:08 am

hiro23 wrote:I'm sure you have your reason's for these views however it doesn't change the fact that they are indeed extreme views.
Why are my views "extreme" actually?
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:38 am

I'd say hating someone just because they are old or gay is pretty extreme
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icecab21
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:04 am

As long as you are non violent about it go ahead and hate, I don't see any logic behind hate being benefit for you to have though. How about talking more about the issues you have with the actions, since it seems you have more of an issue with some perceived violation of your privacy than actual hate for people just genetically being gay. If you are open to at least some dialogue, that will help you develop further understanding and a more respectful relationship. Otherwise, hate is death, so it is natural to want people to not hate each other because of the bad energy that hate creates, as that is detrimental to everyone. Ill just put “good” as this way, when people have near death experiences they can feel at peace with all and interconnected with everything, therefore peace, interconnectedness, and compassion are what our brains push us toward to as being healthy. I think that if peace is the last emotion we feel as we die, surely that is something to try and achive when we are alive.

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