Stratovarius Community

Jens Johansson's fomrer bandmate in Yngwie Malmsteens's rising force is dead!

Makes me very sad!

It was a suicide. I cannot believe it!

rest in peace

What?!? Oh no I really liked his playing.

RIP man...

Wherever he is now, I hope he finds peace there. R.I.P.

I'll listen to Marchig Out to his memory.

RIP.

Mormegil wrote:I'll listen to Marchig Out to his memory.

RIP.

Already put that on... I didn't see this coming

Mormegil wrote:I'll listen to Marchig Out to his memory.

RIP.

For me it will be Talisman-genesis

I just looked at the marching out booklet....he was the bassist huh? Sucks, does anybody know why he committed suicide?

Nevermind.

Ragehead91 wrote:I hate to be the dickhead in this thread (well, I guess I am the dickhead ever since I registrated here) but commiting suicide is just coward and rude. Instead of facing your problems you simply run away from them and you also hurt your loved once and your friends. As sad as his suicide is, if it was because he had depressions or because of any other problem he is a coward. If the health problems mean that he was diagnosed with some incurable and deadly disease that chains you to your bed where you just vegetate with tubes that help you breathing while you can't even wipe of your ass or take a piss without help, well, then I can't take offence at it. I also would rather blow my brains out than to end this way.

You're swimming in deep water now.. calling him coward. We never know about his situation. I think it is just tragic I wouldn't criticise a person that is committing suicide.

Nevermind.

Of course a person who is severely depressed or have any other mental disorder CHOOSES to be sick - and commit suicide
I wonder when or if mental disorders ever will get the same "respect" and understanding as f.ex cancer and other somatic diseases.
Someone who commits suicide doesn't do it "for fun", he or she is seriously sick and can't see any other options. In many cases they are so sick they believe they are doing their family and loved ones a favor by dying.
That someone can say the things you say Ragehead, makes ME sick!

RIP Marcel Jacob
My best wishes goes out to his friends and family.

Nevermind.

So then it's cowardly and selfish to be sick? To have a disease, a disorder or whatever?
That IS after all what you are saying.
Suicide can be a result of mental disorders, as death can be a result of cancer.

Irinia wrote:Of course a person who is severely depressed or have any other mental disorder CHOOSES to be sick - and commit suicide
I wonder when or if mental disorders ever will get the same "respect" and understanding as f.ex cancer and other somatic diseases.
Someone who commits suicide doesn't do it "for fun", he or she is seriously sick and can't see any other options. In many cases they are so sick they believe they are doing their family and loved ones a favor by dying.
That someone can say the things you say Ragehead, makes ME sick!

This. Suicide is an act of despair, not cowardice.

Nevermind.

Ragehead91 wrote:I never said that! Sorry if it sounded that way. You can't chose your sickness. But commiting suicide is cowardly and selfish. What about the ppl who loved you? Who cared about you? Who were worried about you? Who tried to help you through the shit that happened? The ones who discover your dead body? The onse who carry you to your grave? The ones who have regrets every day and blame it on themselves because they think they didn't care about you enough and that they weren't there when you needed them? The people who try to figure out why every day? The who have regrets every day becacuse they couldn't prevent it from happening? The ppl who try every fucking day to figure out what drove you to your desicion and end up hating themselves because they thing they're responsible? What about them? You have escaped all your problems and all your sorrow but what about them? The ones you left behind? You decide to end your life because you can't take all your problems anymore and because you think it is the easy way out but you don't care about how the ones you left behind feel. If that isn't cowardly and selfish, what is?

You can be sick of mental health... that is why I never call anyone that takes their own life selfish. You never know their situation.

you can all sign your thoughts here

http://www.melodicrock.com/reviews/marceljacob.p3

Nevermind.

Ragehead91 wrote:Doesn't change the fact that is is cowardly and selfish.

You talk stupid without knowing facts.Marcel was ill for years he had so much in his life the last 10 years.For his i was the only way out.Marcel was great person and musician.

stratowerner wrote:

Ragehead91 wrote:Doesn't change the fact that is is cowardly and selfish.

You talk stupid without knowing facts.Marcel was ill for years he had so much in his life the last 10 years.For his i was the only way out.Marcel was great person and musician.

This. Marcel was in constant pain from numerous physical disorders and treated himself with alcohol. I am sure that didnt help with his depression. I am deeply saddened over this, he was a great man and I was really looking forward to another Talisman album

It's very difficult to draw the line in this subject, about mental illness and suicide. I'd say that there are both cases:
1) When the person has a real mental issue and is out of his mind, not even realizing what he's doing and being unable of rational thinking such as "I will hurt my family if I kill myself" and also not being able to look for professional help.
2) When the person is simply weak and escapes from reality, as a choice, not caring about anyone else or trying to believe that being dead would be better anyway. It could be the case of drug addicts that know they are wasted but can't/don't want to recover. In these kind of cases, I could agree with Ragehead.

It can't be told that ALL people commiting suicide fits on the 1) case argumenting that people of the 2) case can be considered as having mental illness as "it's not normal to think that way". If that were the case, the same could apply to murderers, as I consider that every murder has to be crazy in a certain degree, 'cause it's not normal to want to kill other people... should all murderers should be "forgiven" then and not sent to prison, but mental institutions instead?

In the other hand...

Ragehead91 wrote:... If the health problems mean that he was diagnosed with some incurable and deadly disease that chains you to your bed where you just vegetate with tubes that help you breathing while you can't even wipe of your ass or take a piss without help, well, then I can't take offence at it...

That's why I admire this man so much:



Touching videostory here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sectio ... &status=ok

Words by Jeff Scott Soto


http://www.talismanworld.com/

DawnIsHere wrote:It's very difficult to draw the line in this subject, about mental illness and suicide. I'd say that there are both cases:
1) When the person has a real mental issue and is out of his mind, not even realizing what he's doing and being unable of rational thinking such as "I will hurt my family if I kill myself" and also not being able to look for professional help.
2) When the person is simply weak and escapes from reality, as a choice, not caring about anyone else or trying to believe that being dead would be better anyway. It could be the case of drug addicts that know they are wasted but can't/don't want to recover. In these kind of cases, I could agree with Ragehead.

It can't be told that ALL people commiting suicide fits on the 1) case argumenting that people of the 2) case can be considered as having mental illness as "it's not normal to think that way". If that were the case, the same could apply to murderers, as I consider that every murder has to be crazy in a certain degree, 'cause it's not normal to want to kill other people... should all murderers should be "forgiven" then and not sent to prison, but mental institutions instead?

Fair point, but I wouldn't compare homicíde and suicide that way.
Wanting to kill others is after all something very natural. Animals kill both their own and other species all the time. Animals killing themselves is not quite as common.

The way I see it, losing the absolutely most vital instinct any organism needs, the self preservation instinct, is always a clear sign that something is wrong with you and you need help.

Ragehead91 wrote:

Rage1979 wrote:

Ragehead91 wrote:I never said that! Sorry if it sounded that way. You can't chose your sickness. But commiting suicide is cowardly and selfish. What about the ppl who loved you? Who cared about you? Who were worried about you? Who tried to help you through the shit that happened? The ones who discover your dead body? The onse who carry you to your grave? The ones who have regrets every day and blame it on themselves because they think they didn't care about you enough and that they weren't there when you needed them? The people who try to figure out why every day? The who have regrets every day becacuse they couldn't prevent it from happening? The ppl who try every fucking day to figure out what drove you to your desicion and end up hating themselves because they thing they're responsible? What about them? You have escaped all your problems and all your sorrow but what about them? The ones you left behind? You decide to end your life because you can't take all your problems anymore and because you think it is the easy way out but you don't care about how the ones you left behind feel. If that isn't cowardly and selfish, what is?

You can be sick of mental health... that is why I never call anyone that takes their own life selfish. You never know their situation.

But I do. Sorry if I sound coldhearted, but suicide is just cowardly and selfish to me. This is the way I think about it and I won't change my opinion. I don't care about the situation, suicide is never the right answer to anything.

You are not mentally ill and have clearly spent no time around anyone who is. You have absolutely no grasp of the issue. I have worked with mentally ill people, have had people close to me struggle with such difficulties and I have seen what they and their families have to fight through on a daily basis. It really is no joke and definately not something to be looked down on.

Suicide really is not the right answer to anything, but it's very easy for you to make that call, isn't it? Try living with a nice serious case of paranoid schizophrenia for a few days. It will make dental surgery without anesthesia seem like a day at Disneyland. I know this because I've seen first-hand what people are driven to.

So, until you know more about a person's situation, do not make such statements. They are ignorant and insensitive.

If Marcel Jacob killed himself because he lost his iPod or something, then fair enough to ridicule and accuse him of cowardice. Somehow, however, I don't think that as being the cause.

Edit: Just to expand on my previous point, here's something a doctor I know wrote:

A rotation I did in the psych unit provided enough crazy to last me a lifetime. One dead ringer for Ewan MacGregor was a good, honest schizophrenic, and would tell me about the latest visions that would make suicide look positively snuggly. A voice barked at him constantly that the room was actually getting smaller and he has claustrophobia; then visual hallucinations that he must - must - open up his arms with a razor and tie his veins to the shower curtain rod while filleting open his scrotum looking for the insects. When it was bad, the voices would just go into an endless loop of FUCK YOU FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING WHORE. This is when I began to understand that suicide is normal, occasionally healthy, and sometimes absolutely called for. No matter what meds he was on, this was his life.

Mental illness is for pussies!

Nevermind.

Ragehead91 wrote:

stratowerner wrote:

Ragehead91 wrote:Doesn't change the fact that is is cowardly and selfish.

You talk stupid without knowing facts.Marcel was ill for years he had so much in his life the last 10 years.For his i was the only way out.Marcel was great person and musician.

Don't care about the situation. Stills stand by my opinion.

This again shows your stunning, willful ignorance of the issue.

That is like accusing Eduardo of being a terrible player because he didn't score any goals this season, but at the same time refusing to take into consideration the fact that he had his ankle snapped in two and subsequently spent the past year recovering and in physiotherapy; therefore he hardly played at all this season.

Using your logic, you'd say something like:

'I don't care about the situation, Eduardo is a terrible player because he didn't score any goals, I stand by my opinion.'

Save your energy,Neon! He is from Hessen and we can be grateful this is not a soundforum!

I didnt know Marcel Jacobs, but anyway: RIP!

I have seen the touching video and he seems very sympathetic and beside his disease still with fun... I am sure, in such a difficult situation for him, there is a very very strong connection between him and his friends, which makes his suicide even more hard, not only for them...

I think it always depends on the reasons of a suicide. Often it's running away from problems, but in this case I more see the salvation through death according to a very hard and difficult of life.

Who can know what someone who takes his life really feels. It is a desperate act and neither cowardly or selfish. It is a choice from that persons special situation and noone kan be a judge of that. We can only be sorry and miss the person with respect.

Nevermind.