Finally recruiting for my band

[icecab21]

yes, i am but sam i am not but i yam what i yam

[hiro23]

Icecab:and we wouldn't have you any other way

[icecab21]

Did I ever tell you you're my hiro23?
You're everything, everything I wish I could be.
Oh, and I, I could fly higher than an eagle,
'cause you are the wind beneath my wings,
'cause you are the wind beneath my wings.

Oh, the wind beneath my wings.
You, you, you, you are the wind beneath my wings.
Fly, fly, fly away. You let me fly so high.
Oh, you, you, you, the wind beneath my wings.
Oh, you, you, you, the wind beneath my wings.

Fly, fly, fly high against the sky,
so high I almost touch the sky.
Thank you, thank you,
thank God for you, the wind beneath my wings.

[hiro23]

You know I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to use that joke on me.

Good one btw though

[icecab21]

true story

I need a hiro23
I'm holding out for a hiro23 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hiro23
I'm holding out for a hiro23 'til the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And he's gotta be larger than life

[hiro23]

Wow, when presented in that light I actually seem really cool

[icecab21]

Have you thought of a name yet? It could be called "hiro23 and the people that play with him".

[hiro23]

nah, I've got a name in mind, but for copyright purposes I'm going to wait till I get the name registered before I tell everyone.

[icecab21]

I am guessing this name will still be avalible afterwords : " we can't release our name yet since we still need to copywrite it and we don't want anyone to steal our band name since that would really blow... of fire"

[hiro23]

But seriously though I'm going to try and get it registered as soon as possible, unfortunately I lack what many others have and that is funds, what I will say is it definitely gets the point across that we are a Neo-Classical Power Metal band.

I have several things on my agenda to do
1.Buy a decent amp, the one I have now sucks
2.Travel to Europe to assemble the band and establish a base(this one will take several months because of the money).
3.Get band name registered
4.Play our asses off and show off our music to others until we make an album deal.
5.Rule the world

[icecab21]

So it's pinky and the brain, off to rule the world? If preparation A-G fail, there is always preparation H, just saying be prepared. Can you sing like Jeremy irons?

[hiro23]

LOL I'm just saying that I do have a plan.

Jeremy Irons can sing?

[icecab21]

He plays scar in lion king
my god he should be singing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0AiN8vrn9Y

[hiro23]

I didn't know if that was his actual voice, disney has a knack for hiring a person to do the talking parts and someone else to do the singing parts.

Damn Jeremy can sing

[NeonVomit]

I have several things on my agenda to do
1.Buy a decent amp, the one I have now sucks
2.Travel to Europe to assemble the band and establish a base(this one will take several months because of the money).
3.Get band name registered
4.Play our asses off and show off our music to others until we make an album deal.
5.Rule the world

1.I'd buy the amp after you came to Europe.
2.yes, you'll need a fair bit of cash (not to mention visas/residence permits) and find a job
3.get the band together before you register anything!
4.this is the hardest part.

I really, really don't want to discourage you but I'm just sensing a rather naive optimism of how easy you seem to think it is and I really want to tell you a bunch of things I'd wished I'd known when I was just starting out. I'm telling you all this because I think you're cool and a genuinely good person who deserves to be informed of the realities of playing music as a career.

As someone who was until recently pursuing a full-time career in music and has been vastly more successful than most, let me tell you that it is not an easy way to go by ANY means, and I've been involved in music my entire life (I have no recollection of not being able to read music).

By vastly more successful than most, I mean that I've played with a fair few professional orchestras (like the Royal Kingston and Cyprus State orchestra) but only on a substitue or extra basis. I play pretty regular gigs at venues around here and in Cyprus but they only pay a couple of hundred euros/GBP a go, if that much. I'm very much in demand as a teacher in my area. I've been the top two or three in auditions for professional orchestras and I've even been invited to audition for the Athens State Orchestra in Greece (one of the best in Southern Europe) but I didn't get the job (no-one did, they'll be holding another audition next year.)

I'm currently playing in a band that has a record deal which took an unimaginable amount of hard work and sacrifice to get and believe me when I say this, getting a record deal is the easiest part of it all. It's funny, in a sad sort of way, how everyone thinks that once you sign your name on a contract that it's over, you're big and famous and you'll be touring the world. It is NOT like that at all. The real struggle begins once you put your name on that paper.

I've been trained by some of the finest teachers on the planet at some of the best institutions in Europe (University of Surrey and Kingston University - working on my MA in Music currently), have studied under David Hadley (one of the best session bass players in Europe) and have worked very hard to get to the point at which I have arrived.

Still, I am currently writing this while doing druge work at a law firm, making 9.50 euro an hour. I have yet to win an audition for an orchestra that pays enough to live on without another job. I have yet to get enough work as a gigging musician to be able to support myself without another job, and Winter's Verge are a long way away from being a source of enough money for me to live off by any stretch of the imagination.

Am I telling you not to pursue a career in music? Not at all.

Am I telling you that you'll have to work harder than EVERYONE ELSE in order to make it?

YES.

Know this: there are people in this world who have been playing since they were four years old; people who have been reading music for longer than that; people who have been practicing 6+ hours a day for longer than you've been alive; people who live, eat, sleep, breathe music. These are your competition. These are the people who you will have to be better than in order to make a living as a musician, ESPECIALLY as a session musician.

Am I telling you this to scare you? You betcha. Do I want to scare you away from a career as a musician? No. I want to scare you to the point that you truly contemplate the costs of what you are considering. I want to scare you to the point that you quit spending time on the internet and go practice.

One way or another, you can always be a singer or guitarist or drummer, always be a musician, always love making music. You can become an engineer or pilot or doctor and have better gear than the rest of us (which is the route I am currently taking now.)

One thing is for certain, choosing a career in music is not for the faint-hearted. I've wanted to totally quit it so many times. Why I haven't, I don't know, honestly. But, I haven't. I'm exploring other paths, but making music is still the main thing in my life. Maybe that's why I'll make it when so many others won't, because despite all the setbacks I'm sticking with it. But ultimately, you decide who you'll be.

Please take this into consideration. If you were/are interested in performing other types of music like classical, jazz, country, pop and funk, then there is work out there. I've chosen my path because I had no desire to play music other than metal and classical. If you focus only on metal however, do not expect to make much money at the beginning. By 'not much money' I mean nowhere near enough to pay rent, feed yourself, or indeed even support any of your musical activities.

We have sold albums in 50 countries, you can go into the big HMV on Tottenham Court Road in London (the largest and probably most iconic record store in the world) and find our CD on the rack, we have fans emailing us from Japan asking us to play there and I've yet to see a single cent from the band's intake for my own use because it's all ploughed right back into the band's own costs. If I weigh the amount of money that I've personally invested into the band over the years against the amount I've actually made... the total is about -3000 euro. Yes, minus, to get to where we have. Studios, transport, air fares, equipment, graphic designers, agents, you name it. And the money that was made, as I said, I didn't take it. None of us did. It all goes back into the band.

Think about that for a bit.

One does not play metal to make a living. One plays metal because they love it, it will not support you unless you get lucky and make it big (and yes, making it big isn't necessarily dependant on how good you are, lord knows how many astonishingly talented bands I've seen who still play to 20 people at gigs.)

Just take a moment and really think about this.

[hiro23]

I have several things on my agenda to do
1.Buy a decent amp, the one I have now sucks
2.Travel to Europe to assemble the band and establish a base(this one will take several months because of the money).
3.Get band name registered
4.Play our asses off and show off our music to others until we make an album deal.
5.Rule the world

1.I'd buy the amp after you came to Europe.
2.yes, you'll need a fair bit of cash (not to mention visas/residence permits) and find a job
3.get the band together before you register anything!
4.this is the hardest part.

I really, really don't want to discourage you but I'm just sensing a rather naive optimism of how easy you seem to think it is and I really want to tell you a bunch of things I'd wished I'd known when I was just starting out.

As someone who was until recently pursuing a full-time career in music and has been vastly more successful than most, let me tell you that it is not an easy way to go by ANY means, and I've been involved in music my entire life (I have no recollection of not being able to read music).

By vastly more successful than most, I mean that I've played with a fair few professional orchestras (like the Royal Kingston and Cyprus State orchestra) but only on a substitue or extra basis. I play pretty regular gigs at venues around here and in Cyprus but they only pay a couple of hundred euros/GBP a go, if that much. I'm very much in demand as a teacher in my area. I've been the top two or three in auditions for professional orchestras and I've even been invited to audition for the Athens State Orchestra in Greece (one of the best in Southern Europe) but I didn't get the job (no-one did, they'll be holding another audition next year.)

I'm currently playing in a band that has a record deal which took an unimaginable amount of hard work and sacrifice to get and believe me when I say this, getting a record deal is the easiest part of it all. It's funny, in a sad sort of way, how everyone thinks that once you sign your name on a contract that it's over, you're big and famous and you'll be touring the world. It is NOT like that at all. The real struggle begins once you put your name on that paper.

I've been trained by some of the finest teachers on the planet at some of the best institutions in Europe (University of Surrey and Kingston University - working on my MA in Music currently), have studied under David Hadley (one of the best session bass players in Europe) and have worked very hard to get to the point at which I have arrived.

Still, I am currently writing this while doing druge work at a law firm, making 9.50 euro an hour. I have yet to win an audition for an orchestra that pays enough to live on without another job. I have yet to get enough work as a gigging musician to be able to support myself without another job, and Winter's Verge are a long way away from being a source of enough money for me to live off by any stretch of the imagination.

Am I telling you not to pursue a career in music? Not at all.

Am I telling you that you'll have to work harder than EVERYONE ELSE in order to make it?

YES.

Know this: there are people in this world who have been playing since they were four years old; people who have been reading music for longer than that; people who have been practicing 6+ hours a day for longer than you've been alive; people who live, eat, sleep, breathe music. These are your competition. These are the people who you will have to be better than in order to make a living as a musician, ESPECIALLY as a session musician.

Am I telling you this to scare you? You betcha. Do I want to scare you away from a career as a musician? No. I want to scare you to the point that you truly contemplate the costs of what you are considering. I want to scare you to the point that you quit spending time on the internet and go practice.

One way or another, you can always be a singer or guitarist or drummer, always be a musician, always love making music. You can become an engineer or pilot or doctor and have better gear than the rest of us (which is the route I am currently taking now.)

One thing is for certain, choosing a career in music is not for the faint-hearted. I've wanted to totally quit it so many times. Why I haven't, I don't know, honestly. But, I haven't. I'm exploring other paths, but making music is still the main thing in my life. Maybe that's why I'll make it when so many others won't, because despite all the setbacks I'm sticking with it. But ultimately, you decide who you'll be.

Please take this into consideration. If you were/are interested in performing other types of music like classical, jazz, country, pop and funk, then there is work out there. I've chosen my path because I had no desire to play music other than metal and classical. If you focus only on metal however, do not expect to make much money. By 'not much money' I mean nowhere near enough to pay rent, feed yourself, or indeed even support any of your musical activities.

One does not play metal to make a living. One plays metal because they love it, it will not support you unless you get lucky and make it big (and yes, making it big isn't necessarily dependant on how good you are, lord knows how many astonishingly talented bands I've seen who still play to 20 people at gigs.)

Just take a moment and really think about this.

I did not take your words as discouragement at all, I am aware of the risks and I am aware that I may never make it at all, but I have to try cause if I don't the guilt I will live with for not trying will be even worse then the pain of having tried and failed. I know this is what I wanna do with my life and I know that if I bust my ass to do it that I will eventually see my music come out.

As far as my check list goes here's my response
1.good idea I'll wait to get the amp
2.Depending on when I book the flight it can be anywhere from 800 to 1200 dollars american, this will take me several months to save up as I'm pretty poor and yes I will have to find a day job when I get there and get the appropriate visa's
3.Oh don't worry I'm planning on assembling the band first, though I do want to register the name as soon as possible that way no one else steals it.
4.I know that this will be hard, however I'm hoping that our songs will be strong enough that we'll be able to get them online and pitch them to the right companies.

All in all I know this isn't going to be some cake walk and that many times I do find myself questioning whether it will all be worth it, but as I said I have to try.

[icecab21]

Here is one theory. If one out of 1000 songs makes it, write 1000 songs. If one in 1000 bands makes it, play in 1000 bands. Connections are everything. Connect your heart to your music, your heart to others hearts, and your music to others hearts. Have some cleaver gimmicks for buzz. Find a way to win the numbers game, for a lot of people to hate your music, a lot of people will love your music.

[Mormegil]

I have several things on my agenda to do
1.Buy a decent amp, the one I have now sucks
2.Travel to Europe to assemble the band and establish a base(this one will take several months because of the money).
3.Get band name registered
4.Play our asses off and show off our music to others until we make an album deal.
5.Rule the world

1.I'd buy the amp after you came to Europe.
2.yes, you'll need a fair bit of cash (not to mention visas/residence permits) and find a job
3.get the band together before you register anything!
4.this is the hardest part.
.
.
.
Just take a moment and really think about this.

Thanks for that post, surely made me think for a minute. However, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the importance of song writing process though. By that I mean, of all the time you've been practising, how much do you put effort on writing and arranging songs oppose to practising to play them perfectly? I'd also like to know if you consider writing good basic songs more important than trying to come up with new, unexplored ideas.
What has always bothered me is that when musicians, professional or not, give advice to beginners, they always seem to neglect writing into just piecing some ideas together once you enter the studio and have the producer arrange them for you. Not accusing anyone of course, just a feeling I've had from reading so many interviews and articles.

I have bought about 500 CDs in my life and each and everyone of them only because of the songs. I'm pretty sure that it's the only reason vast majority of people in this world buy albums too.

[warrencurrymetal]

Just dedicate yourself to making music you love whenever you have free time. Neonvomit put the entire industry in a nutshell pretty well! Just remember, the best music comes from those who just love the music.

Personally, I think neoclassical power metal is at a saturation point. There are soooo many good bands out there, so expect to put out a few albums before anybody notices. Maybe start when the genre dies, work your but off regardless of the change, and then you can be the one to revive it!

actually, just play whatver you like to play!

[hiro23]

That's why I want to get into the music business, it's cause I love the music, not because I'm hoping to be famous.

Don't get me wrong if someone offers me some kind of deal you can be sure I'll take it but that is not why I'm doing it.

[icecab21]

Act today, doesn’t delay. I can give 5 dollar contract but this offer stands for a limited time only. But wait there's more, call now and receive a free penny just for calling. Satisfaction guaranteed, no rolling stone deal where you can't get no satisfaction. Don’t stand there like a deer in the headlights when you can get the big bucks. Don’t say doh, say whoa yea.

[hiro23]

[icecab21]

Do you have any themes in mind? If thinking of a yes or no answer, care to elaborate?

[hiro23]

Well if there is one central theme it would be standing up in the face of adversity, cause as far as subject matter goes I'll be hitting on many subjects like fantasy,Science fiction,philosophy,Religion, a little of everything pretty much, I just write what comes to mind.

[icecab21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0NnpkJlZk

here is sort of a question for fun
what is your favorite part of this solo and would you consider music like it?

For me it's
1 .59-1.33 section wise. hell yes

[NeonVomit]

I have several things on my agenda to do
1.Buy a decent amp, the one I have now sucks
2.Travel to Europe to assemble the band and establish a base(this one will take several months because of the money).
3.Get band name registered
4.Play our asses off and show off our music to others until we make an album deal.
5.Rule the world

1.I'd buy the amp after you came to Europe.
2.yes, you'll need a fair bit of cash (not to mention visas/residence permits) and find a job
3.get the band together before you register anything!
4.this is the hardest part.
.
.
.
Just take a moment and really think about this.

Thanks for that post, surely made me think for a minute. However, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the importance of song writing process though. By that I mean, of all the time you've been practising, how much do you put effort on writing and arranging songs oppose to practising to play them perfectly? I'd also like to know if you consider writing good basic songs more important than trying to come up with new, unexplored ideas.
What has always bothered me is that when musicians, professional or not, give advice to beginners, they always seem to neglect writing into just piecing some ideas together once you enter the studio and have the producer arrange them for you. Not accusing anyone of course, just a feeling I've had from reading so many interviews and articles.

I have bought about 500 CDs in my life and each and everyone of them only because of the songs. I'm pretty sure that it's the only reason vast majority of people in this world buy albums too.

Songwriting goes without saying. By far the biggest reason any record company would be interested in a potential signing is the songs they write. If you don't write good songs, you don't get anywhere.

Take everything I've written in my previous post as an addition to good songwriting.

[icecab21]

I think baselines bring up a question and well as drumming. Bands can get by by being rather straightforward with them it seems. Its’ like at least sometimes that bands will have these songs with complex baselines and then their songs that get most popular will be ones where the bass player just plays the root of the chord. What are your thoughts of the complexity of baselines and from a record deal perspective what difference does it make?

[hiro23]

Icecab:I love stuff like that, I actually wanted to set up a stage show where in between sets one of the guitar players and the drummer do a sort of solo battle.

[icecab21]

Sort of? So with a twist?

[hiro23]

basically, also so that the other members can take a short break