Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Here musicians can talk to each other about making music etc. Of course if you are not a musician you are still welcomed to this board, but the topics should somehow be about making music.
Locked
User avatar
88speedkeys
Jr. Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Netherlands

Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by 88speedkeys » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:31 pm

Oké, this may sound like a really ignorant question, but I am curious about your (forum readers) responses nonetheless...
Say you are playing a song which is in E flat. I'll take Malmsteen's 'Rising Force' as an example. We play this song with our band. But the first time we rehearsed this our guitarplayer played it in E. He hates downtuning guitars. (his 'problem' :? ) This brought me to watching the Yngwie DVD and saw Jens play stuff in E which was actually E flat. Meaning he transposed his keys one step.
But the question goes for a LOT of songs where the guitars are downtuned in general. What do you keyboard players out there do. You stick with E flat (because that's what you hear) or do you transpose your keys? I actually dislike the use of the transpose-button but I have to admit that (for me) some parts are easier to play in E than in E flat...
I'm curious about your views...
I am who I am...

User avatar
NeonVomit
Sr. Member
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:36 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:49 pm

We play a whole-step downtuned. Our keyboardist just transposes down.

The 'transpose' button is there for a reason. It simply makes life easier. The guitarist and bassist don't have any difficulties when it comes to such matters. Why give yourself trouble when there's an easy solution at hand?
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."

http://www.wintersverge.com


I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!

User avatar
88speedkeys
Jr. Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by 88speedkeys » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:25 pm

Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right :lol:

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.
I am who I am...

User avatar
NeonVomit
Sr. Member
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:36 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by NeonVomit » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:04 am

88speedkeys wrote:Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right :lol:

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.
Just do what other transposing instruments do - have it written normally and transpose down with the keyboard. Essentially, the keys you're pressing correspond with the notes on the paper, they just sound a half step down.

There isn't any rule to live by.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."

http://www.wintersverge.com


I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!

User avatar
Miguel_Ricardo
Sr. Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Buenos Aires
Contact:

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by Miguel_Ricardo » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:44 am

hahahahahahaha I even transpose in normal chords just to play it easier!!!! :mrgreen:

Not too proud about that hehehehe but what can I do? But the disadvanbtage is that your licks may sound all the same, soi you shouldn't abuse of the transpose

User avatar
Jack
Member
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:14 pm
Location: Broken Chair

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by Jack » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:44 am

Pray you never play a real piano :wink:

User avatar
Jaakko
Sr. Member
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 9:54 am

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by Jaakko » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:35 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
88speedkeys wrote:Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right :lol:

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.
Just do what other transposing instruments do - have it written normally and transpose down with the keyboard. Essentially, the keys you're pressing correspond with the notes on the paper, they just sound a half step down.

There isn't any rule to live by.
Actually what you just said is the rule: if it's written on the staff to tune half steps down, then do accordingly. That's how sheet music based on Eb tuned guitars usually is.

Llageran
Sr. Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by Llageran » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:26 pm

For some reason I learned to play all strato-songs with the keys tuned 1 step up (F I think that would be).
When I try to play them a halfstep down it just feels weird......but I guess it's a matter of practising.

User avatar
Miguel_Ricardo
Sr. Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Buenos Aires
Contact:

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by Miguel_Ricardo » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:26 am

Jack wrote:Pray you never play a real piano :wink:
hehe I do, all in c minor.. ^^; hahah but just when fooling around, not allways!

User avatar
88speedkeys
Jr. Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by 88speedkeys » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:28 pm

Actually what you just said is the rule: if it's written on the staff to tune half steps down, then do accordingly. That's how sheet music based on Eb tuned guitars usually is.
Thanks! Although I'm not too sure what it will say on the keyboard sheet music in this case. Haven't seen enough of that I guess.

So would you say a tune is in E or in E flat when you play it on a downtuned guitar? :?

I'm not too sure about this, but I heard (some?) churchorgans are also 'downtuned' half a step so to speak. But then again, I'm not bringing a real piano or churchorgan to a gig. :lol:
Carrying my leslie speaker alone is bad enough by itsself. But that's a whole other discussion.

Anyway, it looks like most (keyboard-) players here don't bother using the transpose-button as long as it serves this purpose. Maybe that should be my answer!
I am who I am...

metalman
Member
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by metalman » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:29 pm

I usually try to play the song both untransposed and transposed. Then I decide which was easier and then play it like that.
In notebooks however the notes are sometimes written in E although they are supposed to be palyed in E flat. In that case I just stick to the notebook and play it transposed.

User avatar
88speedkeys
Jr. Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

Post by 88speedkeys » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:52 pm

I usually try to play the song both untransposed and transposed. Then I decide which was easier and then play it like that.
In notebooks however the notes are sometimes written in E although they are supposed to be palyed in E flat. In that case I just stick to the notebook and play it transposed.
Yeah, I understand, although I guess that in my case E would be the best choice in most cases.
Maybe most of the pieces are actually in E, but the guitarplayers just decided to downtune their guitars for a 'heavier' sound. Oh well... now let's just hope I don't forget to transpose to the right key while gigging! 8)
I am who I am...

User avatar
88speedkeys
Jr. Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Netherlands

tuning up???

Post by 88speedkeys » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:33 am

Oké, I stumbled on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4
version of Van Halens Jump.... :oops:
For some reason they play Jump in C# instead of C this tour. Maybe DLR expanded his vocal cords? :D
You can hear Eddie struggle to get it right on his (wrongly tuned???) guitar.
Anyway, tuning up seems to happen as well and I have to admit.. that's really new for me!
I am who I am...

User avatar
NeonVomit
Sr. Member
Posts: 4628
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:36 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: tuning up???

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:16 pm

88speedkeys wrote:Oké, I stumbled on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4
version of Van Halens Jump.... :oops:
For some reason they play Jump in C# instead of C this tour. Maybe DLR expanded his vocal cords? :D
You can hear Eddie struggle to get it right on his (wrongly tuned???) guitar.
Anyway, tuning up seems to happen as well and I have to admit.. that's really new for me!
Yeah, it's unusual. Most people tune down to sound lower and heavier, plus be a little easier on the singer.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."

http://www.wintersverge.com


I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!

Locked