Stratovarius @ Wacken

[Dave]

I think so too, that the new song will be found on YouTube quite surely some days after the show. That´s unfortunetaly the way nowadays...

I would be even less optimistic.
From my experience, most of the "stolen" material from festivals are available on Youtube the same evening, sometimes the next morning.

Internet is growing so fast nowadays that someday, any gig video will be available way before the gig, and musicians will use Youtube to correct their mistakes before doing them. Ah, sounds like someone has been watching Heroes too much.

What's actually wrong with the song appearing on YouTube ? Nobody will make less money just because it's appearing on YouTube.
I have to be in Munich the whole Wacken weekend, so I'd be very happy if that song appears on YouTube, so everybody else who can't go to Wacken can watch/hear it, too.

[TimoTolkki]

I think so too, that the new song will be found on YouTube quite surely some days after the show. That´s unfortunetaly the way nowadays...

I would be even less optimistic.
From my experience, most of the "stolen" material from festivals are available on Youtube the same evening, sometimes the next morning.

Internet is growing so fast nowadays that someday, any gig video will be available way before the gig, and musicians will use Youtube to correct their mistakes before doing them. Ah, sounds like someone has been watching Heroes too much.

What's actually wrong with the song appearing on YouTube ? Nobody will make less money just because it's appearing on YouTube.
I have to be in Munich the whole Wacken weekend, so I'd be very happy if that song appears on YouTube, so everybody else who can't go to Wacken can watch/hear it, too.

It´s a matter of principle mainly and to be have the control over one´s own work. But we´ve been through all these before.

[cliff]

What's actually wrong with the song appearing on YouTube ? Nobody will make less money just because it's appearing on YouTube.
I have to be in Munich the whole Wacken weekend, so I'd be very happy if that song appears on YouTube, so everybody else who can't go to Wacken can watch/hear it, too.

I understand that, I would also ge glad to listen to the new song (I won't be in Wacken either), but when you think of it, this system is not fair for :
a/ the Stratovarius musicians, who decided to "offer" this song to the pp in Wacken.
b/ the pp who came to Wacken.
Of course a video on Youtube with really poor quality will NEVER replace the atmosphere of being in the festival for real, but still, it's not fair for those fans who have paid probably more than 200 euros to be there, when some pp who hadn't paid anything at all - and probably don't care much about the band, about metal or about music in general - can just seat on their couch at home and watch the entire show!
(I could add : c/ record company, but to be honest, I don't care about them now. I don't mean ALL of them, but most of them just suck money from bands & fans, and the day they realize that they can't earn enough money from a band, they just kick it out with huge disrespect)

Of course you and I, we both know that the pp who decides to put those videos online do it with "good" intention, to share the songs with other fans, but I personally think it's immoral.

Now if it's the band who decides to upload the video on Youtube, that would be the best choice, and would make everybody happy.
But things are never THAT easy (read my "c/" part again)

[black death]

this system is not fair for :
a/ the Stratovarius musicians, who decided to "offer" this song to the pp in Wacken.
b/ the pp who came to Wacken.

Well, I'm not sure, if it's not fair for the people at Wacken , respectively for all of them.
A lot of people at such a festival goes there not just because of one band (can be Stratovarius, can be whoever else), but because of the atmosphere there, because of more bands, because they go for a "trip" with their friends...and I don't know why else. It is unfair maybe just for those who paid more than 200 Euros just to see THIS, but for the others??
Moreover, as you wrote, "a video on Youtube with really poor quality will NEVER replace the atmosphere of being in the festival for real". So I'm not sure even about this ...is it really unfair to the fans?

From my point of view (as a fan)...when I see something LIVE (not important if at a festival or separate gig), I don't have a problem with a video of what I saw on youtube.

But, of course, it's not fair to the band (or record company). Not only that it's not fair, but it's copyright infringement, as TT wrote. That's why I'm against this videos on youtube.

Btw. I think that I heard a few months ago that MTV wants to sue youtube for a huge amount of money (I don't remember how much) because of some videos there. Well, I don't remember what finally happened with this lawsuit, but I guess it wasn't last problem that youtube had.

[NeonVomit]

Hm. A bit of a grey area.

I don't think that because of a low-quality video from a hand-held camera in the crowd, anyone would not buy the cd. It would be nice to have an idea of the song (because, really, that's all we can get from someone holding a camera over their head in the middle of the crowd with people bouncing around, complete with fuzzy sound and seeing the guys in the band as specks on the horizon). So in this particular case, live videos on home recording equipment, I don't think it's a problem. If anything, it's good promotion.

However, when you're talking about copyrighted videos (properly recorded) or sections of DVDs, things are different.

[Dave]

I don't think that there is a single person on this planet who thinks "Oh well, they will probably upload the new Stratovarius song on YouTube, so I will save my money and won't go to Wacken."
If I could go to Wacken this year, I'd like to see all the bands that I like, I wouldn't go there just to hear the new Stratovarius song.
You could also say that the people who will buy the Wacken 2007 are unfair, as they will be able to watch almost all the shows in great quality, and pay much less than the Wacken visitors

It's a copyright infringement, but nobody will make less money with that.
And I don't understand why it's unfair to the record company, as long as there isn't a person who thinks "Oh well, they will probably upload a new Stratovarius song in crappy live quality on YouTube, so I'm not going to buy the whole new album".
Of course it's unfair when somebody is uploading whole albums in good quality on YouTube, but I'm talking only about this new song.

[TimoTolkki]

However, when you're talking about copyrighted videos (properly recorded) or sections of DVDs, things are different.

No you are wrong. If you put up anywhere in media form of copyrighted material, it´s a copyright infringement. The quality does not matter.
I, of course, am not so strict to this anymore as I was 5 years ago since i know that the whole industry is changing and the prices of cds are ridiculously high. Internet has done lot of good and lot of bad. In some years we know more about the situation.
But from where I stand, as a songwriter, I have certain rights to my work and how it is distributed. And I should be the one who decides that.
Unfortunately there is a whole new generation of kids who have no respect to the copyrights and download/distribute copyrighted material without any guilt.
This is too bad.

[IceBreaker]

Internet has done lot of good and lot of bad.
...
Unfortunately there is a whole new generation of kids who have no respect to the copyrights and download/distribute copyrighted material without any guilt.
This is too bad.

Unfortunately yes. They just think they can do nearly everything with the highly advanced mobiles, and on the net without any respect. Many has already found some cases where the other party has gone the case to the court or at least been thinking of that. Here I remember the video of a teacher singing crappy (or how was it..) which was put quickly on YouTube as an example of this. I´d call those young ppl sth like "a wireless/Internet/Mobile generation".

In my opinion the question is how to teach them (or to convince them to know) the respect of copyrights, or even the rights...

[tkbdadsgshim]

unfortunetly that it's osmething that can be stopped easly that's a fact, but at least for me , if someone records the new song n' uploaded to you tube i'm honest i will check it, because i want to know what it's happening with the band , in my situation it's really difficult to travel to see them in germany, but i don't care if i watch the song online or not i will buy the cd because i like the band no matter what, but that's my personal opinion i know there are too many fans of the band that no matter what will buy the cd, besides i think it's very sdhitty to judge the new matterial just for one song, but you have a point there a re too many ppl violating the copyrights, but at this point anyone can upload whatever they want, n' most of the times is ppl who buy the cds, i think this is somethin' we can't stop the only thing we can do, it's educate ourselfes 'bout this situation n' of course we need the support of the record companies or the ppl who distribute the matterial around the world becauses the prices are really too high n' i believe the only ones who are affected with this are the bands n' of course us the fans

[NeonVomit]

Timo, that is of course true. Having signed a contract myself I really should have thought of that. Technically it is copyright infringement, but unlikely to cause any financial harm.

I never was really into downloading albums and stuff, I guess that's mostly because I enjoyed actually collecting CDs. But now that my own band has a stake to lose from illegal downloading, and especially since downloading will make a big impact on us, it's something that really bothers me now.

Someone else on this forum put it up for download and they have the actual figures, but more people downloaded our entire first demo than physical copies of it ever existed. Which I guess is a good thing, we didn't lose out that much and plus the global promotion was worth it, and I think that played a role in us getting our contract with the label. For unsigned band, the internet can do wonders. How else would an unknown band from an out-of-the-way place like Cyprus get a record deal with a German label? This is a case of something good the internet can do. And plus, I was contacted about the issue and talked about it with the other guys in the band and we agreed to have it uploaded in the first place.

Now the bad... it's not about Metallica losing record sales. It's about smaller bands starting out losing sales. If the band doesn't sell, it gets dropped by the label. Simple as that.

[TimoTolkki]

Now the bad... it's not about Metallica losing record sales. It's about smaller bands starting out losing sales. If the band doesn't sell, it gets dropped by the label. Simple as that.

Again wrong. Metallica is in no different position than other bands when it comes to both legal copyrights and moral copyrights. Every person, no matter how rich or poor, has the same rights to his/her work. Both legally and morally.

[StratoTimo]

Now the bad... it's not about Metallica losing record sales. It's about smaller bands starting out losing sales. If the band doesn't sell, it gets dropped by the label. Simple as that.

Again wrong. Metallica is in no different position than other bands when it comes to both legal copyrights and moral copyrights. Every person, no matter how rich or poor, has the same rights to his/her work. Both legally and morally.

Yes that's totally right. Why bands made any songs if you can get it at for example at YouTube for free...Except me, I bought because I like that band what I just like! Example if in YouTube is newest Stratovarius album at February and release date is at March, I could listen those songs in YouTube but still I'm going to buy that album because I just want all in that album to me...Like Stratovarius album was Rockumentary. And I'm also going to buy every album from my favourite bands because YouTube just isn't there where you need music, example You are at Summer Gottage and there isn't opportunity to use internet and you want to listen a music there, then you need CD-player and that album where is that song you need to listen and if that isn't released... Then you know there that you should not listen that song what is in YouTube...

And Timppa, sorry that I started this recording discussion in Wacken, I just didn't know that that it's illegal to put any clips to youtube, but YouTube is not so important to me.
And one question to you, can any band make charge to youtube that they "get" money away from the band?

[NeonVomit]

Now the bad... it's not about Metallica losing record sales. It's about smaller bands starting out losing sales. If the band doesn't sell, it gets dropped by the label. Simple as that.

Again wrong. Metallica is in no different position than other bands when it comes to both legal copyrights and moral copyrights. Every person, no matter how rich or poor, has the same rights to his/her work. Both legally and morally.

Of course, I didn't say that Metallica have any less right to have their work protected as anyone else. I don't think anyone really believes that, certainly not someone who writes and records music in a professional or semi-professional manner.

What I was meaning to say is that the losses of record sales hurt the small bands which are starting out (like mine) far more, which is why illicitly downloading stuff by smaller bands ultimately causes them more harm. Let's say 1000 people download our album, and of projected sales of 3000, we're left with 2000. That's a pretty massive proportion, 1/3. If say 350,000 people download Metallica's new album, and they still sell another 2.5 million, they're hardly going to be affected by it as much as we are even though the numbers are much higher. I'm the last person to say that it's right to do, but the simple matter is that we are going to be hurt by it a lot more than Metallica are. I am certainly not saying that Metallica's intellectual rights are any less valid.

In principle, it should never be done to anyone regardless of how successful and rich they are. In practise however, it hurts the little guys far more. And of course, record labels suffer too.

What I'm trying to say is that people should really think carefully about the consequences of taking music in that way. If they really want to support up-and-coming artists, then downloading the albums is one of the worst ways to do it. If you really like a new band then buy their CDs, people. That's the best way to support them. Or download their music in a legal way, from iTunes or the record label's website. I believe good music is always worth paying for.

I used to think 'yeah whatever, big deal' but now that I'm getting a good idea of how it really affects the bands, I've realized what a harmful thing it is.

But what is the solution?

[rakettitulppa]

Timo, can you tell to us, when we get some news from the new album.for example the new album name, or new album songlist, or a new single, or when the new album or new single it's out?

[exe knight]

Timo, can you tell to us, when we get some news from the new album.for example the new album name, or new album songlist, or a new single, or when the new album or new single it's out?

Yeeah this time I might even buy the single, I love Stratovarius more than any band, I'm really looking forvard to this album and if there's much time inbetween, I will buy the single too, In the mean time I'll just try to find that Twilight time...

[Beast_Pete]

I!m signing in from Wacken. I met stratovana and her daughter an hour ago and now I!m trying to find the stratoguys (Jens is drinking somewhere around ). The show was great, and I really liked the new song, it!s promising. I managed to get into the first row accompanied by my Hungarian flag. My friends filmed the whole show, but of course we won!t upload it (Timo, if you want a copy of it, then let me know).

The whole Wacken festival is brilliant and I have enjoyed it much. We!ve been partying with my friends and watched some really nice shows. Of course the Stratovarius one was the best and it was worth standing 5 hours in the first row to see them directly in the end.

[black death]

I!m signing in from Wacken. I met stratovana and her daughter an hour ago and now I!m trying to find the stratoguys (Jens is drinking somewhere around ). The show was great, and I really liked the new song, it!s promising. I managed to get into the first row accompanied by my Hungarian flag. My friends filmed the whole show, but of course we won!t upload it (Timo, if you want a copy of it, then let me know).

The whole Wacken festival is brilliant and I have enjoyed it much. We!ve been partying with my friends and watched some really nice shows. Of course the Stratovarius one was the best and it was worth standing 5 hours in the first row to see them directly in the end.

Nice to hear so fast information from Wacken
I'm sure it was more than worth it

[browneyedgirl]

Thanks for the report, Beast_Pete! Have fun! :headbang:

[Salieri]

The people from here (argentina) and all the people that couldnt went to the wacken want to listen this song. Please, cant the band upload the video of the new song in wacken? we are very ansious.

Thank for the report, and for saying that the new song is good.

[Kmasters]

Setlist please

[rakettitulppa]

Setlist please

yes, and last night on earth-videoclip, and pictures.

[Kmasters]

I just find this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J09uapSd15E

[stratobabius]

I just find this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J09uapSd15E

Is it only me, or is Beast_Pete there, seen on the first row?

[stratohawk]

I just find this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J09uapSd15E

Fucking awesome!!! This must be some official video!?

Anyways, fuck it, I WANT TO SEE THEM LIVE AGAIN!!

[Stratoviking]

I like it very much little strange that Strato play this song I think but its good!!
I want to hear the new song!!!
thanks for the clip

[finnlandia]

I saw this video already in Youtube.
This is so great! And thanks for the report Beast_Pete.

[IceBreaker]

Really no idea are the 2 videos found there official or not but the shootings on stage would start ppl guessing so. Well, won´t put any links as we don´t know more yet...

[StratoTimo]

How many of you have seebn/heard This!!!!!!!!

Fuck that Rocks! But where is these videos going? are they bonuses in upcoming Runttaa Reino Album?

[black death]

Yeah, I've seen it .
Audio is a little delayed, but the sound is good.
As Beast_Pete said, it's promising...I'd say very promising

[rakettitulppa]

that is stratovariuse's best song!