Keys in E or E flat on downtuned songs???

[88speedkeys]

Oké, this may sound like a really ignorant question, but I am curious about your (forum readers) responses nonetheless...
Say you are playing a song which is in E flat. I'll take Malmsteen's 'Rising Force' as an example. We play this song with our band. But the first time we rehearsed this our guitarplayer played it in E. He hates downtuning guitars. (his 'problem' ) This brought me to watching the Yngwie DVD and saw Jens play stuff in E which was actually E flat. Meaning he transposed his keys one step.
But the question goes for a LOT of songs where the guitars are downtuned in general. What do you keyboard players out there do. You stick with E flat (because that's what you hear) or do you transpose your keys? I actually dislike the use of the transpose-button but I have to admit that (for me) some parts are easier to play in E than in E flat...
I'm curious about your views...

[NeonVomit]

We play a whole-step downtuned. Our keyboardist just transposes down.

The 'transpose' button is there for a reason. It simply makes life easier. The guitarist and bassist don't have any difficulties when it comes to such matters. Why give yourself trouble when there's an easy solution at hand?

[88speedkeys]

Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.

[NeonVomit]

Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.

Just do what other transposing instruments do - have it written normally and transpose down with the keyboard. Essentially, the keys you're pressing correspond with the notes on the paper, they just sound a half step down.

There isn't any rule to live by.

[Miguel_Ricardo]

hahahahahahaha I even transpose in normal chords just to play it easier!!!!

Not too proud about that hehehehe but what can I do? But the disadvanbtage is that your licks may sound all the same, soi you shouldn't abuse of the transpose

[Jack]

Pray you never play a real piano

[Jaakko]

Okay, so I shouldn't make life too difficult...?
I guess you're have a point, but I have always detested using the transpose button. I wonder if there's some rule to live by, but I guess no one in the band could care less what buttons I need to press as long as it sounds right... Right :lol:

Yet how would you transcribe on music paper? I have feeling that if I go looking for transcriptions they might actually in E in this case... Oh well, maybe I should program the keychange in my patches to save me from confusion.

Just do what other transposing instruments do - have it written normally and transpose down with the keyboard. Essentially, the keys you're pressing correspond with the notes on the paper, they just sound a half step down.

There isn't any rule to live by.

Actually what you just said is the rule: if it's written on the staff to tune half steps down, then do accordingly. That's how sheet music based on Eb tuned guitars usually is.

[Llageran]

For some reason I learned to play all strato-songs with the keys tuned 1 step up (F I think that would be).
When I try to play them a halfstep down it just feels weird......but I guess it's a matter of practising.

[Miguel_Ricardo]

Pray you never play a real piano

hehe I do, all in c minor.. ^^; hahah but just when fooling around, not allways!

[88speedkeys]

Actually what you just said is the rule: if it's written on the staff to tune half steps down, then do accordingly. That's how sheet music based on Eb tuned guitars usually is.

Thanks! Although I'm not too sure what it will say on the keyboard sheet music in this case. Haven't seen enough of that I guess.

So would you say a tune is in E or in E flat when you play it on a downtuned guitar?

I'm not too sure about this, but I heard (some?) churchorgans are also 'downtuned' half a step so to speak. But then again, I'm not bringing a real piano or churchorgan to a gig.
Carrying my leslie speaker alone is bad enough by itsself. But that's a whole other discussion.

Anyway, it looks like most (keyboard-) players here don't bother using the transpose-button as long as it serves this purpose. Maybe that should be my answer!

[metalman]

I usually try to play the song both untransposed and transposed. Then I decide which was easier and then play it like that.
In notebooks however the notes are sometimes written in E although they are supposed to be palyed in E flat. In that case I just stick to the notebook and play it transposed.

[88speedkeys]

I usually try to play the song both untransposed and transposed. Then I decide which was easier and then play it like that.
In notebooks however the notes are sometimes written in E although they are supposed to be palyed in E flat. In that case I just stick to the notebook and play it transposed.

Yeah, I understand, although I guess that in my case E would be the best choice in most cases.
Maybe most of the pieces are actually in E, but the guitarplayers just decided to downtune their guitars for a 'heavier' sound. Oh well... now let's just hope I don't forget to transpose to the right key while gigging!

[88speedkeys]

Oké, I stumbled on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4
version of Van Halens Jump....
For some reason they play Jump in C# instead of C this tour. Maybe DLR expanded his vocal cords?
You can hear Eddie struggle to get it right on his (wrongly tuned???) guitar.
Anyway, tuning up seems to happen as well and I have to admit.. that's really new for me!

[NeonVomit]

Oké, I stumbled on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4
version of Van Halens Jump....
For some reason they play Jump in C# instead of C this tour. Maybe DLR expanded his vocal cords?
You can hear Eddie struggle to get it right on his (wrongly tuned???) guitar.
Anyway, tuning up seems to happen as well and I have to admit.. that's really new for me!

Yeah, it's unusual. Most people tune down to sound lower and heavier, plus be a little easier on the singer.