At last..IDF finally responds

[miditek]

IDF to escalate aerial attacks on Hamas.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473145,00.html

After a long series of provocations via rocket and mortar attacks into Israel, the IDF responds with a vengeance.

In a related story, Foreign Minister Tvipi Livni has vowed to topple Hamas once and for all if she secures the upcoming election for Prime Minister.

Her opponent, former Israeli PM Bibi Netanyahu who needs no introduction, also does not need to make any campaign promises to get rid of the menace that is Hamas- with his election, their destruction is all but assured.

Truth to be known, Netanyahu was recently on an American news show, and during the interview he mentioned that it is very likely that the next war that Israel fights will be on multiple fronts, and indicated that the IDF is ready for such a scenario.

[browneyedgirl]

Well, Israel has had rockets fired upon them, so what else can they do? Ignore? Hamas IS a real threat.

However, I think Israel should let food&medicine in to the people because there are innocent women and children that need supplies.

@Miditek,do you think Israel will strike Iran soon, or is that a dead issue at this time?

[miditek]

Well, Israel has had rockets fired upon them, so what else can they do? Ignore? Hamas IS a real threat.

They are indeed- essentially a terror/gangster organization that proves once again how easily those in the gutter can seize power, and in this case, they are not even a state!

However, I think Israel should let food&medicine in to the people because there are innocent women and children that need supplies.

Although I certainly understand your humanitarian inclinations, Israel is under no obligations whatsoever to allow anything in, and unfortunately by doing so, inadvertently allows Hamas to remain in power- although it certainly does show that the Israelis are certainly more humane than the opponents that have sworn to destroy them.

Think about that for a momemt. Hamas' aim is not simply to harrass Israel, but to provoke IDF into hitting them hard with the hope that it will set off a chain reaction and drag the surrounding Arab nations into the conflict. Hamas realizes that they lack the military capability and other means to destroy Israel, but they have no problem with being the catalyst of something much larger. Make no mistake about it, their goal, along with Iran, is a second Holocaust. It's their very reason for living, and that is a scary thought.

@Miditek,do you think Israel will strike Iran soon, or is that a dead issue at this time?

It is most definitely not a dead issue, and I remain quite certain that it is only a matter of time before Israel will hit them. The $750+ million missile defense system that Russia has so 'helpfully' provided to Iran (and where does everyone think that these missiles will be deployed to? If you answered the Bushrer plant, then move to the front of the class!) is not yet on-line, but Israel cannot wait forever to act- while there is still time. To delay for too long- or to wait until the new missile system is on line, would turn a logistically difficult problem into a suicide mission.

Moreover, the incoming administration is no certainly no friend of Israel. Take a look at how much money all of the Arab governments and Saudi princes have donated to the Clinton Presidential library (and not to mention the president-elect's campaign, via back channels, of course)- we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars here- and you don't think that they're not trying to get something out of it from the new Mdme. Secretary Hillary?

Israel will have to act on it's own this time around, and thank God that they are strong enough to do so! While Obama fiddles with dismantling the Patriot Act, shutting down Gitmo, and kissing Arab and Russian asses at every opportunity, it's very likely Washington could end up being ablaze with nuclear fire- from a tactical nuke being smuggled in by the very people that he's trying to 'negotiate' with.

[hiro23]

Just my two cents again.

You'll very rarely hear from me on these subjects as I hate politics and anything like them.

in the end it's the people who have to take a stand and fight for what they believe in.
It's like that old Sabbath song where ozzy sings "politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war".

Trusting politicians to protect you and your rights is like trusting a pool of great white sharks not to eat you.

So like I said it will have to be the people themselves who decide which course of action is best for them.

[NeverendingAbyss]

Anyone who would stop this violence will do!

[miditek]

Anyone who would stop this violence will do!

A simple solution- stop firing rockets and mortars across the border at Israel. No country would tolerate this, and the first responsibility of any government is to protect it's citizens.

Hamas wants war with Israel and they preach it on a daily basis- so they should not complain when they get what they ask for.

[Shurik]

This shit was going on for 8 fucking years, since Hamas and such understood that it's easier to fire rockets than to try and smuggle a suicide bomber from Gaza. Thanks to inaction from various Israeli governments, the disengagement plan in 2005 and Egyptians not caring about what's going on their border with Gaza they've built a terror state beside the Israel's southern border. Hamas got so sure they won't be attacked and that they can do just about anything, that they were caught off-guard and had their asses kicked so hard by Israeli air force that there's almost no Hamas buildings left standing in Gaza.

The question now is how it will develop - we all hope that the mistakes of the second Lebanon war will not be repeated and this time Hamas will be crushed or at least brought to his knees and will beg Israel to stop.

Good luck to Israeli pilots and soldiers in eliminating this scum from the face of the Earth. Indeed, no country would allow more than 200,000 of its citizens to live under a constant threat of rockets and mortar fire.

[NeverendingAbyss]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... ws&sub=new

[miditek]

There really ought to be a law that requires an 'editorial propaganda' disclaimer each and every time the Marxist copywriters at the associated press use (read: parrot) the same, tired old words 'disproportionate' and 'response' in the same sentence as Israel- any time these terms appear anywhere but the editorial page.



A similar rule could be applied along the same lines for these oft-repeated and somewhat interchangable, although no less overused terms- 'in wake of Israeli retaliation', 'humanitarian', 'disaster', and 'Gaza'.

[browneyedgirl]

The Anti-American/Anti-Israel conspiracy theory sites are having a field day with this event. I used to think these webpages were just satire&comedic, now I see them as totally disgusting. If they are serious about their content, I have to wonder about their philosophy, and how they really feel, the hatred they have seemingly have for USA&Israel. If it is real it is scary, to say the least!

http://www.uruknet.info
This one is really something else!

[miditek]

http://www.uruknet.info
This one is really something else!

I checked the page out, and it looked like something from the days of the old Italian 'Red Brigades' terror group propaganda - which must consider the ever-trendy 'Al-aqsa Martyrs' Brigade' to somehow be their comrades in arms.

People like that annoy the hell out of me- dhimmis like that supremely idiotic American girl who jumped in front of an Israeli army bulldozer and was crushed. Good propaganda for Hamas perhaps, but guess how she's being 'immortalized' by her own countrymen now?

Some people are using post-mortem pictures of her crushed into a pancake face as an avatar (of all things) at some of the rowdier forums, such as fuckfrance.com, which incidentally featured some interesting stories on recent pro-Paleosimian protests in London and Paris.

And then we have the obligatory chorus of Western nations calling on Israel to practice 'restraint' while the Arab League and Iran call for revenge. Tel Aviv played rope-a-dope with Hamas (although there were plenty of verbal warnings to stop the rocket attacks) , luring them into thinking they could do anything they want, and now the gang in Gaza is getting the living shit kicked out of it by the IDF.

Serves them right, and I hope that Israel does anything but show restraint in order to teach these animals that terror in any form does not pay.

I must say that Israel's enemies are consistent, if nothing else. They have been attacking Israel, getting beaten down in retaliatory strikes, and then crying and complaining for the UN to pull their stupid asses out of a fire of their own making ever since modern Israel declared statehood in May of 1948.

Some people never learn, and brute force is the only thing that will get their attention. Don't like it? Then for the thousandth time, leave Israel alone!

[Shurik]

What's so disproportionate about the current operation? Hamas was warned a million times by Israel - if they were stupid enough not to believe we can kick their ass, it's their problem. Also , no one forced the Gaza Strip population to vote for a gang of murderous freaks.

I stopped reading or watching Western media a long time ago. Their idea of how Israel should behave (dying quietly, god forbid we respond) is totally unacceptable. And to all those conspiracy theorists who whine about poor Palestinians getting massacred by evil Zionists - come and live in Sderot for a month. I was in Haifa for an entire war 2.5 years ago and even I can't imagine people living like that for 8 fucking years.

[browneyedgirl]

I am puzzled by Egypt's reaction to this. I thought Egypt more or less "sided" with the Palestinians, but when about a hundred Palestinians crossed the border into Egypt they were forced at gunpoint to get out and stay out of Egypt. Now Egypt is closing its border completely to the Palestinians. Is it simply that they don't want this "problem" at their doorstep, and within the country?

[Shurik]

I am puzzled by Egypt's reaction to this. I thought Egypt more or less "sided" with the Palestinians, but when about a hundred Palestinians crossed the border into Egypt they were forced at gunpoint to get out and stay out of Egypt. Now Egypt is closing its border completely to the Palestinians. Is it simply that they don't want this "problem" at their doorstep, and within the country?

Hamas is a part of Muslim Brothers organization, which is a big problem for Egyptian authorities. Egyptian officials hate Hamas probably more than Israel does, because Muslim Brothers are causing trouble in Egypt and trying to overthrow the Mubarak regime and turn Egypt into another fanatic religious state a-la Iran. Egyptians also don't like Palestinians much because of all the trouble with the border between Gaza and Egypt. Actually, Egyptians were offered Gaza as a part of Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty but they refused to take it, they said something like "We have enough problems of our own, you deal with them". So the Egypt's reaction is as expected. They can't say it out loud, but they'll thank Israel if Israel will crush Hamas.

[miditek]

What's so disproportionate about the current operation? Hamas was warned a million times by Israel - if they were stupid enough not to believe we can kick their ass, it's their problem. Also , no one forced the Gaza Strip population to vote for a gang of murderous freaks.

I don't think that the current operation is disproportionate at all, in fact, I feel that Israel has been more than patient enough, and has provided ample warnings to Hamas to stop. My observation was that 'disproportionate' seems to be the only word in the liberal western media lexicon that they use to describe any time Israel responds to Hamas with military force.

I stopped reading or watching Western media a long time ago. Their idea of how Israel should behave (dying quietly, god forbid we respond) is totally unacceptable. And to all those conspiracy theorists who whine about poor Palestinians getting massacred by evil Zionists - come and live in Sderot for a month. I was in Haifa for an entire war 2.5 years ago and even I can't imagine people living like that for 8 fucking years.

Living in the west, of course, I watch the TV and news reports, but like to help friends and family decode or filter the editorial/propaganda aspects that riddle most of these news reports.

I'm a bit older than you, and can remember the then-PLO causing all kinds of problems (from the news reports) when I was a kid- the massacre at Munich, attempted assassination of King Hussein in Jordan, who subsequently expelled them, Arafat being told to leave Tunisia, and the IDF also throwing them out of Lebanon. These people cause problems everywhere they go, and I also suspect that your suspicions about Mubarak wanting to see Hamas go is probably right on the mark.

There is also a cloud of suspicion that many attacks a la' Bombay (Mumbai) will be happening here in the states, which is one reason why I and many of my fellow citizens are armed everywhere we go- whenever possible. My state issues concealed weapons permits, with certain rules. I keep a Beretta Cougar 8000F 9mm strapped on nearly all the time, except at work, of course, but it and spare mags are kept within easy reach in the car, and I also keep a 12 gauge riot gun, and an assault rifle at the ready at home- just in case of such an occasion. I would very much like to add a Finnish Valmet/Sako AK-47 (very high quality arms) to my collection. If jihadists get out of line here in the U.S., there are multitudes of armed citizens that will smoke them without hesitation.

I agree with your assessment that Israel should not sit idly by and wait for her enemies to destroy her. I strongly believe that self-defense is the most fundamental of all human rights. I have a belief that things may calm down a bit if Hamas is dealt with swiftly, severely, and most of all, persistently. They have no one to blame but themselves for the current civilian casualties- I even read where the IDF had an automated system attendant that was calling hundreds or thousands of cell phones in Gaza with instructions for civilians to evacuate. I know of no other country that does things such as this- giving the enemy an advanced warning that an attack is coming.

[NeonVomit]

I think I'll go ahead and just leave this little thing I found right here.



Enjoy.

[browneyedgirl]

How quickly some people forget......
NEW YORKERS RAISE CHILDISH HELL AGAINST ISRAEL (IN PHOTOS) « http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/1 ... in-photos/

These ignorants have forgotten 9/11. Do they want a reminder, or another 9/11?
And the baby dressed as a PLO person is just sick.

There are protests all over the world. I say, let them ram their nose up Palestine's ass as far as they can&see what good it does. Don't these ignorant protesters realize they are the enemy to the Palistinians?

@miditek, there will probably be some insane&Stupid assholes who will fight WITH the jihadists if they attack USA! People are really something.

[miditek]

How quickly some people forget......
NEW YORKERS RAISE CHILDISH HELL AGAINST ISRAEL (IN PHOTOS) « http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/1 ... in-photos/

What a crock of shit. The "Free 'Palestine' from the river to the sea" is quite simply a euphemism for a second Holocaust. Fortunately, people who's opinions count, such as Bibi Netanyahu realize what these themes actually represent. He was recently on an American news show, and remarked, "There will be no second Holocaust."

These ignorants have forgotten 9/11. Do they want a reminder, or another 9/11?
And the baby dressed as a PLO person is just sick.

Make no mistake about it, the people in these photos aren't exactly what I'd call mainstream Americans. The baby in Arafat garb is truly disgusting- rather than Hitler Youth, it's now "Intifada Infants".

I haven't forgotten what happened on 9/11, and I haven't forgotten the day that these idiots were dancing in the streets to celebrate-

There are protests all over the world. I say, let them ram their nose up Palestine's ass as far as they can&see what good it does. Don't these ignorant protesters realize they are the enemy to the Palestinians?

Palestinians are (almost) everyone's cause celibre', and the Jews are, as they have been for five thousand years, the classic scapegoat. It is important to realize that this type of hatred is not natural- as it has supernatural influences and origins.

@miditek, there will probably be some insane&Stupid assholes who will fight WITH the jihadists if they attack USA! People are really something.

Which is all the more reason why an armed civilian population is absolutely essential to the security of our country. I don't think it's a stretch to say that these punks will get blasted when they try that shit over here with us. And try they will...

[miditek]

I think I'll go ahead and just leave this little thing I found right here.



Enjoy.

Germany 'lawfully' good and Israel 'lawfully evil'? Last time I checked, Germany is not exactly a moral authority. Granted, their behavior has been much better, but only after getting hammered twice.

Enjoy Sharia once it takes over Londonistan- as for the U.S, our citizens are still armed to the teeth and won't tolerate these punks playing Sharia or jihad over here.

[browneyedgirl]

I think in the weeks&months to come many Palestine sympathizers will have much more personally important issues to worry about besides the fate of Gaza. (Unless they are children of very wealthy blue-blooded parents)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7802461.stm
This is just a taste of it.

And a friendly reminder in case anyone forgets: If it would advance their cause, hardcore jihadists would cut your head off in one second whether you kiss their ass, or sympathize with them one little bit. Is it worth it?

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I hope Israel protects its sovereignty using any means necessary...but I think that the 3 billion a year in aid the USA gives to Israel is unacceptable. The US government should serve the welfare of Americans, rather than giving out billions to other countries and entangling us in their affairs, while we drown in debt.

[browneyedgirl]

It has been reported that one of the leaders of Hamas has been killed. Its a shame that this is the only way Hamas will listen to reason.

[NeonVomit]

It has been reported that one of the leaders of Hamas has been killed. Its a shame that this is the only way Hamas will listen to reason.

This is exactly what Israel should've done from the start. 'Decapitation' strategy, take out the military and political leadership and they will not be able to function, instead of getting lots of civilians killed in the process.

[Shurik]

It has been reported that one of the leaders of Hamas has been killed. Its a shame that this is the only way Hamas will listen to reason.

This is exactly what Israel should've done from the start. 'Decapitation' strategy, take out the military and political leadership and they will not be able to function, instead of getting lots of civilians killed in the process.

They will be able to function, they'll just find the replacements ... Previous generation of Hamas leadership in Gaza - sheikh Ahmad Yasin and something-Rantisi were killed in 2003 IIRC. Some big names in military wing were also killed or incapacitated during the intifadah, it didn't help much.

Same tactic also didn't work with Hizballah - their previous leader was killed by Israel in the beginning of 1990s, this led to Hassan Nasralla rising to the leadership and the rest is known ...

The only way to fight Hamas and such are operations of the kind Israel does now. The big operation in 2002, Defensive Wall, severely crippled the terror infrastructure in Judea and Samaria, putting an end to daily suicide bombings that took place a month-month and a half before the operation.

[browneyedgirl]

Now reports are saying a ground operation by Israel is in the works, and will begin very soon.

[miditek]

"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow fond of it," Confederate General Lee said after thousands upon thousands of Americans fell at the battle of Fredericksburg.

And with the spectre of armored, artillery, and infantry assaults looming in Gaza,perhaps Hamas will begin to understand that there is nothing glorious in being decimated by an angry and powerful enemy- full of righteous indignation.

War is not some politically correct game to be played with an imaginary set of antiseptic rules. Civilians will suffer, but the blood of the women and children lies solely in the hands of Hamas. They have long preached war with Israel, and now they have it.

They should stop playing the role of a victim- they've been virtually begging Israel to respond, and they are finally getting their wish.

For too long they have shouted 'death to Israel' and 'death to America', only to see Death visiting their own doorstep this time.

[JensJohansson]

They have long preached war with Israel, and now they have it.

They should stop playing the role of a victim- they've been virtually begging Israel to respond, and they are finally getting their wish.

For too long they have shouted 'death to Israel' and 'death to America', only to see Death visiting their own doorstep this time.

While I disagree and agree with the posts and opinions here in various and unimportant ways -- if in doubt I usually side with Israel and the West but I mean, it's not like we're gonna be able to solve this conflict here in the Stratoforum or even get good answers -- to me this post exposes one of the fundamental issues in every conflict:

The 'they' that are doing the preaching, begging and shouting for war and Death are often not the same 'they' receiving it in the end.

'They' is such a general word -- it can actually refer to everyone on Earth except the person speaking it.

[Miss Destiny]

There is one thing I never have understood and that is why poor US has to pay everything everywhere in the world. You have a rotten economy so why,why, pay others all the time???

[Lightyear]

The 'they' that are doing the preaching, begging and shouting for war and Death are often not the same 'they' receiving it in the end.

Exactly! For Fuck's sake. Innocent people are being killed on both sides, do you really think that is acceptable ?!!!!

I have a question for miditek and BEG. Please answer it honestly. Why the fuck is it impossible for Israel to recognize the 1967 borders After all, that is all the Hamas wants really.

DISCLAIMER: I am not defending the fucking Hamas terrorists or any other extremist people, I'm just feeling bad for the poor innocent people being killed on both sides because some hypocrite idiots just have to play tough because they have small dicks and can't feel like real men otherwise...

[Shurik]

The 'they' that are doing the preaching, begging and shouting for war and Death are often not the same 'they' receiving it in the end.

Exactly! For Fuck's sake. Innocent people are being killed on both sides, do you really think that is acceptable ?!!!!

I have a question for miditek and BEG. Please answer it honestly. Why the fuck is it impossible for Israel to recognize the 1967 borders After all, that is all the Hamas wants really.

DISCLAIMER: I am not defending the fucking Hamas terrorists or any other extremist people, I'm just feeling bad for the poor innocent people being killed on both sides because some hypocrite idiots just have to play tough because they have small dicks and can't feel like real men otherwise...

Because in current situation 1967 borders=rockets on entire central Israel and basically the end of Israel. Hamas doesn't want 1967 borders, it wants 1947 borders, which means no such thing as Jewish state west of Jordan river. They've never said otherwise.