DragonForce... ?

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Dude, chill out.

From... what? If I somehow came off as angry, it was not my intention to do so, and I apologize.

If people call themselves metal and the majority of people are inclined to agree with them, then I think it's safe to say they're metal. Saying you hate metal is again saying you hate something based on its label. Therefore your favourite artists and their fans are essentially insulting themselves? I mean okay you can look at things that way but it's a bit of self contradiction...

It's not a self-contradiction to say that I dislike what I think to be metal and that I enjoy what I don't refer to as metal. All I'm saying is that it's all a matter of one's own opinion. The majority is very rarely the side you - or at least, I - want to be a part of. The majority of people believe yams and sweet potatoes to be the same thing, but that does not make it fact. Much in the same way that the majority of people referring to Stratovarius as metal does not make it fact, nor does my not referring to them as metal mean that their not being metal is a fact. Genres are like the economy: Without the influence of people's opinions fueling them, they don't exist at all. In fact, the scientific definition of music is (in simplest terms, because I can't be assed to type out a lengthy definition) a sequence of tones and other naturally occuring sounds that is pleasurable to the human ear. In this way it can also be argued whether something (as what's likely the most common example, rap) is to be considered music or not at all.

The argument is similar to when an artist puts his work on display in a museum. One side will argue that the art is still the individual artist's own commercial property while the other claims that when the artist decided to share it with the world, it became a part society, and thus society's property. It's all a matter of opinion and neither side is a definitive 'right'.

[Ragehead91]

[NeonVomit]

See, you're doing it again.

[Ragehead91]

Are you talking to me or to Xelrog?

[hiro23]

We could spin circles around each other all day describing how this or that band is or is not metal however I'll just end it by saying believe the music to be what you want it to be.

In the end let's just agree that we love what we love.

[NeonVomit]

Are you talking to me or to Xelrog?

Xelrog. He upset you so much you messed up the image link at first.

[Carcass]

I hate metal, too. It's you - the listeners - who define their music as metal, for whatever reason. I tend to take the word metal as an insult, and for that reason and because it just plain doesn't sound like my definition of metal, I refer to the both of them as symphonic (or in some cases, such as with Soul of a Vagabond, classical) rock.

Nah its metal

[En extremt tråkig pe]

They all have too much hair to not be metal, ergo they are metal.

[mayhem-for-all]

The concept of metal is an opinion, not an absolute fact. The very existence of genres originates from people's opinions on what type of music they like to listen to, and because people's opinions vary so vastly, do too does the definition of any one genre.

So I could tell my friends that I listen to Pop and techno when I listen to metal just because I think of it as Pop and Techno or atleast want to consider it?

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

The concept of metal is an opinion, not an absolute fact. The very existence of genres originates from people's opinions on what type of music they like to listen to, and because people's opinions vary so vastly, do too does the definition of any one genre.

So I could tell my friends that I listen to Pop and techno when I listen to metal just because I think of it as Pop and Techno or atleast want to consider it?

You could do exactly that, but that would be your decision and your belief. It wouldn't make either party right.

All I've been saying is to leave it at 'one listens to the music they enjoy'. The entire concept of genres is more trouble than it's worth, to be honest.

We could spin circles around each other all day describing how this or that band is or is not metal however I'll just end it by saying believe the music to be what you want it to be.

In the end let's just agree that we love what we love.

I'm not arguing that "this is not metal because I say it's not metal". I'm arguing that everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether ours differ or not. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[eternity_strato]

Xelrog is Michael Kiske

[Ragehead91]

Xelrog is Michael Kiske

Indeed! This is the perfect explanation for Kiske taking part in so many Power Metal bands over tha last years! It is not metal to him!

[icecab21]

Two different ways to say something. The first one can be true, but what does that do to communication?
1 "in my opinion, a penis is a vagina"
2 " A penis is a vagina as currently categorized by the medical community in the English language.
"

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

While the first statement is completely valid, keep in mind that science and knowledge is in basic format nothing but an opinion that happens to be widely accepted.

While I do believe that everything is objective, that's not the argument I'm trying to make, and I'm not really in the mood to get into a philosophical discussion about it at the moment. All I'm saying is that music is objective, I fail to see what's difficult to understand about that?

[icecab21]

Words are words and the subject is the subject, but I would consider communication to involve a connection between the two. It can be someone’s opinion that object A is the same as object B, but we can observe for differences that can refute that opinion in certain contexts. Depending on the way we look at things everything can be the same or everything can be different. We can call a drum a guitar, yet observe that the objects makes different sounds under certain variables.

[Ragehead91]

Could we please stop this pseudo-philosophical bullshit and get back to topic?

[hiro23]

You can't look at metal as just describing one type of music these days anymore. Metal has many different sub-genre's these days and it's branched out and matured.

Metal is not just the dark and scary image that gets fed down many a person's throat, that is what popular media feeds us so that we will think it's evil.

Metal takes in many elements these days, and yes a lot of the time metal actually gives us very pleasant imagery and can actually give us a message that is good.
I have studied this and the term "metal" merely refers to the metallic sound which a guitar makes when amplified by many decibels, it also has a second meaning which is "power". Many people listen to metal in order to feel that life is still worth living, sometimes life can kick you in the ass and people will listen to metal in order to feel empowered and that they shouldn't give up.

That's why metal can be many things these days, yes it can be scary however it can also be classical,electronic,funk based,bluesy,folksy,fast,slow and even mid-paced.

I hope when looked at in this light metal doesn't seem like such an abrasive word.

[hiro23]

Sorry Ragehead, didn't get that post until after I posted.

[icecab21]

Could we please stop this pseudo-philosophical bullshit and get back to topic?

Under what logic is it pseudo? Under western society this stuff is taught and researched in the established institutions by established professionals.

[Ragehead91]

Could we please stop this pseudo-philosophical bullshit and get back to topic?

Under what logic is it pseudo? Under western society this stuff is taught and researched in the established institutions by established professionals.

We're in Stratoforum. We're here to have fun, talk about the band we love and kill time. I don't think this is the place for this philosophical (peseudo or not) bullshit. I'm sick enought of you starting this bullshit once every while but now we have two of the same kind. Could you please keep that to yourself. I dunno what the others think, but I'm getting annoyed by this.

[hiro23]

if it will calm things down I'll let it go

[icecab21]

How much fun are people having by coming here and saying they hate a band? It’s not like this part has been a "lets all enjoy talking about dragonforce" or a "lets share our experiences with music and enjoy each others thought“thread.

[NeonVomit]

Xelrog is Michael Kiske

That explains everything.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Eh. I usually find this sort of debate fun... at least more so than 50 topics about a new album I don't want any part of until I actually get around to buying anyhow. But, I'm still more or less in the afforementioned bad mood, and it's obvious that neither party is going to sway on the matter, so it may just be best to drop it.

Of course I find those repetetive and generally pointless facepalm images to be just as annoying as this conversation is to you. ;P

So anyway, another DragonForce piece I rather enjoy is The Fire Still Burns. The intro is the epitome of epic, I'm just so damned disappointed that they ruined the rest of the song by turning it into their usual fare. The intro was fantastic and the chorus (namesake of the song) was very enjoyable too... but it's a painful reminder of how invariable their music tends to be. Might be possible that the band just plain doesn't like change... which is a bad trait in the music business because the industry is constantly changing.

[Ragehead91]

Doesn't has to be. Just look at Motörhead.

[icecab21]

I think I like the songs best in midi format where I can controll everything. I have a lot of fun hearing the solos with different instruments.

[fernandotcl]

Yea well the thread was more fun when people weren't complaining about how their music simply sucked, either because they "play too fast", "have no soul" or "sold out".

I really enjoy their latest album. The Last Journey Home rocks. Other really nice songs in my opinion are Disciples Of Babylon and Dawn Over A New World.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Loved Dawn Over A New World. Not so much a fan of the former... couldn't find much of a melody in it. Speaking of which, I listened to what I think was Lost Souls in Endless Time earlier... that song was all over the place. XD I couldn't tell where one verse started and another began, or what was a verse and what wasn't. I'm sure many people enjoyed it but it was just too chaotic for me to follow.

Does anyone know if DF has a track called 'Gods of Ice' from anywhere? It's not labeled and it only vaguely sounds like them (and personally I can't stand it), so I've got a pretty good hunch it's another misname.

[icecab21]

you can find the material on youtube.
gods of ice is from brazil band dragonheart

[fernandotcl]

Lost Souls in Endless Time

Nice, had never heard of that one before, listening to it right now.

Gods Of Ice

Definitely not a DragonForce song, it's a different theme and a different approach overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thGI3BllqnI

It seems that it's a DragonHeart song. The confusion stems from the fact that DragonForce used to be named DragonHeart until not long ago. I did some research based on some of those comments, and DragonHeart is a Brazilian band (which is defunct now, apparently).