Stratovarius Community

browneyedgirl wrote:Yes, these Neo-Nazis don't realize it, but if Hitler had ruled the world, he sure would not allowed them to live based on his way of thinking.

I am quite sure that Festung Europa (Fortress

browneyedgirl wrote:Europe) was the closest thing to hell on Earth- particularly in the East. It foreshadowed what would have happened on a global scale.

browneyedgirl wrote:I don't think people realize how much of a fanatic Hitler was in regard to stuff like that! Probably only 10% of us would be deemed worthy to live under his expectations! Even the people these days who arrogantly declare,"I hate stupidity&mediocrity in any form." Would have been put to death.

Hitler didn't even care about his own troops, most of which fit into the Nordic ideal that he preached. I've read the eyewitness accounts of heated military staff meetings by the likes of Guderian and others, and it is completely apparent to me that Hitler was a demon-possessed lunatic.

browneyedgirl wrote:Thats why it is so dangerous to judge others----and probably why God Almighty(with the help of the armies of the rest of the world) did not allow Hitler to win!

I am of the opinion that Hitler most certainly could not have been defeated without God's help- Divine Providence, if you will. No single nation on Earth could have defeated him, and I believe that God does indeed deserve the credit for the ultimate outcome.

I might be wrong, but didn't the German words Festung Europa exclusively refer to the coastal fortifications called The Atlantic Wall?

miditek wrote:

browneyedgirl wrote:Thats why it is so dangerous to judge others----and probably why God Almighty(with the help of the armies of the rest of the world) did not allow Hitler to win!

I am of the opinion that Hitler most certainly could not have been defeated without God's help- Divine Providence, if you will. No single nation on Earth could have defeated him, and I believe that God does indeed deserve the credit for the ultimate outcome.

I would rather give the credit for Hitler's defeat to the 20 million Russians who died, than to God.




20 million. Think about that number for a while.




20,000,000.




People who died. From the war. From a single country. Brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, friends, cousins, relatives, acquaintances, strangers, neighbours, butchers, greengrocers, mechanics, engineers, nurses, doctors, teachers, miners, accountants, architects, singers, musicians, lovers, artists, actors, painters, thinkers, writers, men, women, children.



Dead. Gave their lives, for the cause of defeating Hitler.



Hitler's defeat was no act of God. It was due to the incredible, unimaginable, incalculable sacrifices that the Russian people ESPECIALLY made that Hitler was defeated in that war. As well as to the sacrifices that the UK, USA, France and other European nations made in that war.

Hitler fought an ultimately futile battle. Once the USSR's massive industrial machine was in full swing, and the USA with their vast resources and technological potential entered the war after the Pearl Harbour attacks and got their industrial power behind the war effort, there was no hope of him winning.

I understand that you would like to think that God was responsible for the outcome, but perhaps the people who laid down their lives to ensure Hitler's defeat deserve more credit.

Plus... I think Hitler is the prime example of the evil that MAN is capable of committing. Not demon-possession. Man. Shifting responsibility onto demons is an easy way out from the uncomfortable fact that yes, man is capable of such evil.

That is why we were taught in History class as Nazi Germany being 'A Warning From History'... implying that it could happen again, man's inhumanity to man could be (and has been, Pol Pot Saddam Hussein Idi Amin Stalin Milosevic Ceaucescu Pinochet etc. etc.) repeated in a similar fashion. It's terrifying to think we don't need demon-possession to commit those crimes... people can do them naturally.

Part of the human condition, if you will...

NeonVomit wrote:

miditek wrote:

browneyedgirl wrote:Thats why it is so dangerous to judge others----and probably why God Almighty(with the help of the armies of the rest of the world) did not allow Hitler to win!

I am of the opinion that Hitler most certainly could not have been defeated without God's help- Divine Providence, if you will. No single nation on Earth could have defeated him, and I believe that God does indeed deserve the credit for the ultimate outcome.

I would rather give the credit for Hitler's defeat to the 20 million Russians who died, than to God.




20 million. Think about that number for a while.




20,000,000.




People who died. From the war. From a single country. Brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, friends, cousins, relatives, acquaintances, strangers, neighbours, butchers, greengrocers, mechanics, engineers, nurses, doctors, teachers, miners, accountants, architects, singers, musicians, lovers, artists, actors, painters, thinkers, writers, men, women, children.



Dead. Gave their lives, for the cause of defeating Hitler.



Hitler's defeat was no act of God. It was due to the incredible, unimaginable, incalculable sacrifices that the Russian people ESPECIALLY made that Hitler was defeated in that war. As well as to the sacrifices that the UK, USA, France and other European nations made in that war.

Hitler fought an ultimately futile battle. Once the USSR's massive industrial machine was in full swing, and the USA with their vast resources and technological potential entered the war after the Pearl Harbour attacks and got their industrial power behind the war effort, there was no hope of him winning.

I understand that you would like to think that God was responsible for the outcome, but perhaps the people who laid down their lives to ensure Hitler's defeat deserve more credit.

Plus... I think Hitler is the prime example of the evil that MAN is capable of committing. Not demon-possession. Man. Shifting responsibility onto demons is an easy way out from the uncomfortable fact that yes, man is capable of such evil.

That is why we were taught in History class as Nazi Germany being 'A Warning From History'... implying that it could happen again, man's inhumanity to man could be (and has been, Pol Pot Saddam Hussein Idi Amin Stalin Milosevic Ceaucescu Pinochet etc. etc.) repeated in a similar fashion. It's terrifying to think we don't need demon-possession to commit those crimes... people can do them naturally.

Part of the human condition, if you will...

Nice post.

I agree with you. God had nothing to do with what happened.

I agree with the post too. What Germany sought at the time was a very humane thing, stability, unity, safety. It were the means to achieve this that were perverted.

Something interesting I found:

Casulties are always very difficult to estimate in the kind of brutal war that was waged on the Eastern Front. It's very difficult to say how many people died of hunger due to use scorched earth tactics, for example.

Carcass wrote:I might be wrong, but didn't the German words Festung Europa exclusively refer to the coastal fortifications called The Atlantic Wall?

According to most historians, you are absolutely correct. However, the reason why I chose to use the term "Festung Europa" was due to Hitler's tendency to refer to essentially everything as a "fortress".

Stalingrad was referred to as one, even though the troops of the German 6th Army referred to it as "Der Kessel" or the Cauldron. Monte Casino was also referred to as a fortress by Hitler, among many other localities. So I guess I simply chose to use the term, as opposed to "Nazi Occupied Europe".

Well, many people don't choose to understand the concept of God when it comes to War. I believe God helped give these people the inner strength, faith&hope to fight these aggressors. Yes, this strength&knowledge came from within them, but God was on their side.
I understand that to many people the thought of a higher power somehow "controlling" events is frightening but, somehow most things work out for the best if we just allow ourselves to think about it. Not everything, but that is one of Life's mysteries.

When Soviet Union existed, Nazis were presented there as the ultimate evil - in schools, movies (I still find some of them incredibly difficult to watch because of the content), books etc etc etc. I myself saw dozens of Soviet war movies and read quite a few books on the subject when I lived there, I can't understand how can anyone think he's a Nazi after that ... I guess it's a fault in Russian educational system ...
BTW, the official number of Soviet casualties during the war is app. 35 million. This was the price of defeating Hitler ...