IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

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Is Iran's nuclear capability a concern?

Hell Yes--it might cause WWIII!!!
11
23%
Somewhat
8
17%
Not at this point--just watch&see!
9
19%
None at all--Ever!
6
13%
The World should just mind its own damn business!!!
13
28%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:56 pm

Carcass wrote:
...a country has to show it has a backbone and will not be raked over.
Of course, but the time for that is not now. Put things in perspective. Some sailors got kidnapped. Would you start a war for that? UK lost little if any of it's credibility. As NeonVomit pointed out, no apologies were made. There is a difference between being a worm and reasonably patient.
He is just using that analogy to apply to nations, and he is right.
Using simple analogies like that on nations takes us back 100 years in history. Giving lessons... there is too much at stake for that.
I know we should be thankful that the hostage situation ended peaceful as it did. And, most are thankful.
BUT, what IF the hostages had not been released? Or, What IF they had been killed?
I'm sure it would've been a totally different outcome. Of course, IF is something drilled into us that we are not supposed to consider.
And, yes, the Iranians were smart not to have tried that game with the USA. It would not have been a repeat of 1979-80.
And, the issue of IF the Britons were trespassing should not even be thought of, because these days even rednecks don't take trespassers hostage. :) We are much kinder than that. :D
Then, people ask, What would the USA or UK do if Iran are the ones trespassing? Hopefully, we'd handle it the right way. Another IF question. :)

Well, considering everything socially, morally, economically, etc., sometimes I think we'd all be better off if time were to go back 100 years. :roll:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:05 am

Well, considering everything socially, morally, economically, etc., sometimes I think we'd all be better off if time were to go back 100 years.
But then we would have to WWs ahead of us. :)

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:14 pm

miditek wrote:
miditek wrote:Persians do not respect "diplomacy".
NeonVomit wrote:Nice. Watched 300 recently? Same way that 1 billion people in the world want to see everyone else either convert, or die, correct?

Careful how you put things. Not only can it potentially be racist and offensive, but simply inaccurate.
Neither Persians nor Arabs respect weakness, or the perception of weakness. Why did Tehran hold American hostages for 444 days during the Carter Administration, only to release them moments before the Reagan Administration took power? The answer there is simple: they knew very well what Reagan was likely to do. If this were not the case, then the hostages would have still been held, and this was based on Teheran's perception of Reagan, and they elected not to take any chances.
You generalise an awful lot. We're talking about the same regime in the same country. Saying an entire nationality or ethnic group will react in a certain way to the same thing is a bit questionable, if you ask me.
NeonVomit wrote:(Oh and for the record, they refer to themselves as 'Iranians'. They speak Persian. Just a little detail there.)

In America, they refer to themselves as "Persians", I should know since my cousin is married to one, and I also have several business partners in Philadelphia that would say the same thing. In other words, it can be a little hazardous to your health in some areas to openly admit to being an Iranian. Also, they refer to their native language as "Farsi" rather than Persian. My cousin speaks to her daughters in English, while their dad typically addresses them in Farsi.
Strange, my friend calls herself Iranian and her language Persian. She was born and grew up in London, however... no one in Britain really cares if you call yourself or your buisiness Iranian. As in, you'll find 'Iranian Supermarket' and 'Iranian Cuisine' restaurants. Different attitudes prevail I guess. People are generally a lot less xenophobic, even in the wake of the London bomb attacks of 2005.
NeonVomit wrote:Foreign policy is a lot more complicated than you're making it out. There are many, many things that go on behind the scenes that we will never know of.

Like convoys of trucks sneaking across the border to Iran and Syria on the eve of the 2003 invasion of Iraq? Such as Iran's and Syria's continued interference in Iraq? Russia continuing to arm Iran?
You missed the point. I'm talking about things we will never, ever know, that go on behind closed doors between diplomats of different countries. I'm sure more than a few questionable deals have been made in that manner in the last 20 years.

What you're talking about is public knowledge, apparently.
NeonVomit wrote:And why do you continue to believe that Ahmandinejad is in charge when it has been clearly explained that he is not? You seem to want him to be a figurehead, and he's playing his role perfectly as far as you're concerned, getting all the attention while the Ayatollah and the council are pretty much ignored. They keep quiet and get along running the country.

What difference does it make by whom is running the country- officially or unofficially? It is a rogue regime, and the US State Department has been doing its best to isolate the regime over the years, but if you look at the numbers, it appears that the EU is Iran's biggest trading partner. (Thanks, Brussels!)
I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything. Just get your terminology correct :D

Ah yes, of course I forgot, Europe loves terrorists and everything, even though Britain and France voted to impose sanctions on Iran, Germany and Spain have both voiced concerns over the nuclear developments, and virtually every country in Europe has had their own terrorist threats to deal with for the last 40-odd years. Blame Europe for all the ills of the world, America is blameless no?
NeonVomit wrote:Before you say it, I'm not excusing anyone of anything, but how different was the whole situation from the way human rights are clearly being violated at Guantanamo Bay? Perhaps they believe they were justified in doing something similar, if for no other reason than to prove a point.


Why should anyone give a flying fuck about what's going on at Guantanamo? These are enemies of the west being held there, and they are lucky to still have their heads attached to their bodies! Geneva does not offer any protection to irregulars, not to mention spies, saboteurs, etc.
I think everyone should care what's going on there.

If they are indeed the 'enemies of the west', they should be tried and sentenced as such. I'm not doubting that they did something to deserve to be there, but since when does America of all countries act in this manner? Are we just meant to take their word for it that those being held there are terrorists?
You seem to believe that this is a gulag or a stalag, which is not a completely accurate statement. So, you are more concerned with the "rights" of terrorists than you are with stopping them from doing their handiwork? What would you say if Gitmo was filled with Turks rather than Arabs? Would your opinion be, perhaps, somewhat different?
Nice try, play on my national background. No, my opinion would not be at all different in the least. Unlike some people, I hold no ill will to people of any particular nationality or ethnic group. No, not even Turks. I will never form an opinion on anyone based on their racial background. I'd find it just as unacceptable wherever those being held there were from.

I'm concerned with 'human rights'... yes, for all humans... even terrorists are human. Fair trial is one of those rights. And it would do a lot for the credibility of US foreign policy to try them, find them guilty and then imprison them rather than hold them indefinately without trial. Even child rapists deserve a fair trial. Punishment is a different issue. Once they are found guilty, do what you will. (I dislike the death penalty because death is usually too good for people who have committed such crimes.)

If fair trial for all is not upheld, how are things any different from the middle ages? The 'Lettre de cachete' was the most hated of all the powers of the pre-Revolution monarch of France, the power to imprison anyone at any time without trial. Most of the revolutionaries had fought in America's war of independance and were inspired to do something similar at home. Bit strange how things have turned out don't you think?
Also, why no complaints about Iranian, Syrian, or Egyptian jails? Why is it always Gitmo? Does everyone else get a pass since they are not American?
What you're trying to say is "They do it, so why can't we!?!" right?

I'd expect better behaviour from America. A country where freedom and human rights are paramount acting in this manner and then criticising other nations for doing the same? Is that not even vaguely hypocritical? Of course these things go on in North Korean and Burmese prisons, and Amnesty International, other human rights groups and many other countries' governments are only too eager to point this out at every opportunity. Don't be so selective in what you choose to notice.

But America? "Fight fire with fire" you might say, but if that's the case then why not carry out targetted killings of civilians as well? Subdue insurgant forces and their supporting communities with death and fear and torture? Genocide? Suicide bombings? Earlier in this thread I gave the perfect way for the USA to succeed in Iraq, totally foolproof. However it requires methods that I'd only expect from Pol Pot or Ghengis Khan.

If the USA ever resorts to that sort of thing, I will have totally lost my faith in humanity. And I think it is because of this that everyone is quick to voice concerns about Guantanamo. America isn't supposed to stand for
this kind of activity, especially not when speaking of bringing freedom, equality and democracy where it is needed. I find it deeply troubling.

Yes, maybe the 'rules' need to be bent every now and then for the greater good. You can at least admit America is doing that much instead of giving it carte blanche to do whatever it pleases?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:37 pm

Of course these things go on in North Korean and Burmese prisons, and Amnesty International, other human rights groups and many other countries' governments are only too eager to point this out at every opportunity.
@miditek, read this. Yes, it's from BBC's site! :lol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6547881.stm

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:56 pm

Carcass wrote:
Of course these things go on in North Korean and Burmese prisons, and Amnesty International, other human rights groups and many other countries' governments are only too eager to point this out at every opportunity.
@miditek, read this. Yes, it's from BBC's site! :lol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6547881.stm
Damn it, you beat me to it, I was going to post that article! :D BUT, not for the same reason you obviously did! :roll:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:10 am

What do you think my reason was? :?

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:15 pm

Of course these things go on in North Korean and Burmese prisons, and Amnesty International, other human rights groups and many other countries' governments are only too eager to point this out at every opportunity.
Carcass wrote:@miditek, read this. Yes, it's from BBC's site! :lol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6547881.stm
Thanks for the link @Carcass. I did read the story, and it's very interesting. In fact, there is an entire topic dedicated to this in another forum that I frequently post in, and the discussions were rather lively. One of the more interesting posts came from one of the mods, who actually is French. Here was his take on the story:
simplefrench wrote:About immaturity, no one can beat americans.You are a young country which like pleasures and stupid entertainments more than anybody else.

The american society is one of the most superficial in the world. But you did great things in the past and you have qualities:

One being a well developed country. very strong. But i don't deny at all that it exists a stupid anti americanism in france. With no reason.And it is dangerous for us. It means that france is not in a good health.

But there is a good anti americanism. The one against your governement which is a caricature.
While I don't always agree with what simpleton has to say, he does make some interesting points at times. I do agree with him that the anti-americanism that exists in France is dangerous for his country, and can cause them (and other nations) to get distracted from the West's collective goal of combating terror.

He also posted that he thought much of the anti-americanism is due to Bush, but I and other American members disagreed. anti-american attitudes in Europe certainly predated Bush, and will be around long after he is gone.

Next, Target: Iran.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:57 pm

Anti-americanism has a longer history, but Bush administration severely worsened the image of US in Europe:

Image

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252 There are some other interesting poll results here, if your interested.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by stratobabius » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:57 pm

According to a poll, 43% of all polls are useless.
Taken from Jens' page.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:11 pm

Who did the pollers poll? Are the polled competent to make a judgement?

I'm sure a lot of polls are manipulated, or just otherwise unreliable. But they are fun to look at. :)

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:42 am

Carcass wrote:Who did the pollers poll? Are the polled competent to make a judgement?
A-men to that, @Carcass. :lol:
Carcass wrote:I'm sure a lot of polls are manipulated, or just otherwise unreliable. But they are fun to look at. :)
My $0.02? Some polls are not worth the toilet paper that they are written on. Just ask CNN. :D
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:32 am

miditek wrote:
Carcass wrote:Who did the pollers poll? Are the polled competent to make a judgement?
A-men to that, @Carcass. :lol:
Carcass wrote:I'm sure a lot of polls are manipulated, or just otherwise unreliable. But they are fun to look at. :)
My $0.02? Some polls are not worth the toilet paper that they are written on. Just ask CNN. :D
IMO, polls just consist of opinions, and we know what Larry Flynt said about opinions! :lol:
Seriously, polls are too limited to have any value, but they do give a brief ego boost sometimes! :lol:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by exe knight » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 am

Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:04 am

exe knight wrote:Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.
:lol:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:06 pm

exe knight wrote:Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.
:lol:
That's your serious topics for ya! :D
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by exe knight » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:24 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:
exe knight wrote:Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.
:lol:
That's your serious topics for ya! :D
Whose to who?

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:01 pm

exe knight wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:
exe knight wrote:Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.
:lol:
That's your serious topics for ya! :D
Whose to who?
I just meant that whenever there is a serious topic there is always lots of text/stuff to read! :D
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by exe knight » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:55 am

browneyedgirl wrote:
exe knight wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:
exe knight wrote:Why is there so much text, I just cannot read it.
:lol:
That's your serious topics for ya! :D
Whose to who?
I just meant that whenever there is a serious topic there is always lots of text/stuff to read! :D
Yes I know that, it's not only forum I'm on, but I thought you meant something personal by that...

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:36 pm

Anyway, I think all this anti-Americanism is aimed mostly at the government. American tv shows, films and music are as popular as ever in Europe, it remains a favourite holiday destination for European tourists, (do a quick check to see the number of daily flights between Paris CGD and New York JFK airports) and people here are only too happy to support the US economy by consuming American products (especially now that they're cheap due to the relatively weak dollar). American tourists are also warmly greeted and appreciated.

We don't hate America! It's just nobody here has liked its successive administrations :D (I guess Clinton was more liked than GW Bush, but not by much.)

Europe basically sees America as the younger relative who sometimes annoys them, but they truly love deep down :)
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:46 pm

Yup, I'm a confessed fan of American junk movies. Big Trouble in Little China is one of my favourites. :) I even have some relatives over there, I think in Minnesota. My dad was actually very close to emigrate when he was a kid.

But I have to admit I loathe Budweiser. :D

BBC's anti-Americanism series continues: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6572615.stm

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:50 pm

Carcass wrote:
But I have to admit I loathe Budweiser. :D
Anyone with decent taste in beer would loathe Budweiser!
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:23 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
Carcass wrote:
But I have to admit I loathe Budweiser. :D
Anyone with decent taste in beer would loathe Budweiser!
:yuk: I'm a citizen of USA&I hate Budweiser! :D Besides, its too weak!

Let these guys have it:

Image

Is there a subliminal message in that ad? ???

:D
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:32 am

Carcass wrote:But I have to admit I loathe Budweiser. :D
Ach! :x No one insults Anheuser-Busch and lives! :P Just Kidding- :lol: During my drinking days, I hated Bud Light a lot worse than Bud, though. It was so bad that I couldn't even drink it.
NeonVomit wrote:Anyone with decent taste in beer would loathe Budweiser!
I was going to send a pint of moonshine down with Michelle Young for Tolkki when she went to visit him in Atlanta at the Saana auditions. I then recalled that he was trying to avoid alcohol, so... :D
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:23 pm

miditek wrote: I was going to send a pint of moonshine down with Michelle Young for Tolkki when she went to visit him in Atlanta at the Saana auditions. I then recalled that he was trying to avoid alcohol, so... :D
Considering that Michelle does have a beautiful voice, maybe wearing a wonderbra would have made an even better impression than alcohol. :D
The music business is rough! :eek:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:08 pm

I 've given the solution to the Iran problem ages ago...but no one listens.

Nuke the US. Then nuke Israel. Then the whole goddamn Middle East. Then South America. Then Africa. Then South East Asia and India.

So we are left with Europe, Canada, Alaska, the Arctic, Antarctica, Siberia, Australia and New Zealand. Actually I may nuke Australia as well.

That's the only lands we need. The rest can be an ocean.

Black metal and everything it stands for needs only these lands...
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:56 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Black metal and everything it stands for needs only these lands...
... riiiight.

A super-nihilist view... but I don't want to be nuked, thanks! I live in Cyprus the rest of the time!

And the rainforests and stuff in Africa and South America, we sort of need those for oxygen...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:12 am

NeonVomit wrote:
Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Black metal and everything it stands for needs only these lands...
... riiiight.

A super-nihilist view... but I don't want to be nuked, thanks! I live in Cyprus the rest of the time!

And the rainforests and stuff in Africa and South America, we sort of need those for oxygen...
Cyprus is in Europe so it will obviously stay. As for forests, we'll have enough in Canada, Scandinavia and Siberia to suffice for the remaining landmass and population.

By the way we don't ask people if they want to be nuked or not. We don't care. We simply nuke. Wether they like it or not.

Black metal always has the final say...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:01 am

Are you 14 years old or something?

That has to be one of the stupidest posts I've yet seen on this forum.

Who the hell would say 'Yeah, nuke me! I'd like that, it sounds life fun!'

Oh and don't say 'black metal has the answer', you're giving black metal a bad name by merely mentioning it in the same post as such incredibly idiotic ideas.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:47 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:I 've given the solution to the Iran problem ages ago...but no one listens.

Nuke the US. Then nuke Israel. Then the whole goddamn Middle East. Then South America. Then Africa. Then South East Asia and India.


The US has in excess of 20,000 warheads in its strategic arsenal, and many of these are on nuclear submarines that are miles deep in various oceans. Only the White House know their exact locations, and from a Cold War standpoint, at least, represent the ultimate deterrent.

Israel also is a nuclear armed nation, and would also retaliate. So what you're saying is that the devil would stop the inevitable retaliatory strikes in mid-flight? Now that's a fascinating concept, the one that wishes to destroy the world would actually save it. How profound.
Bathory Killcraft wrote:So we are left with Europe, Canada, Alaska, the Arctic, Antarctica, Siberia, Australia and New Zealand. Actually I may nuke Australia as well.


Europe takes it's orders from Tehran and Moscow now, and without Mecca (which is in the Middle East), Islam cannot exist. And with each passing day, it appears that Europe is essentially unwilling to exist without radical Islam, so in that respect, a nuclear strike on the Middle East would actually make little sense.

Your story might make for an interesting spy or espionage novel at very least though. Who knows, you could perhaps become the next Tom Clancy?
Bathory Killcraft wrote:That's the only lands we need. The rest can be an ocean.Black metal and everything it stands for needs only these lands...
Was that Marilyn Manson I saw fleeing out the back door of the teen goth nightclub in terror, with members of Lynryd Skynryd in hot pursuit, carrying clubs and shaking their fists? :lol:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:46 am

NeonVomit wrote:Are you 14 years old or something?

That has to be one of the stupidest posts I've yet seen on this forum.

Who the hell would say 'Yeah, nuke me! I'd like that, it sounds life fun!'

Oh and don't say 'black metal has the answer', you're giving black metal a bad name by merely mentioning it in the same post as such incredibly idiotic ideas.
Black metal indeed is the answer...to all that is right in this world
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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