SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

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SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:36 am

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In a recent interview, Tony commented on the fact, that the band will be re-recording their first album Ecliptica later this year:
TK : [... ]There is also the fact we are about to re-record our first album, Ecliptica later in the year, after a request from our Japanese label . We thought it would be weird but after all, why not? This is something I wanted to do for a while, repeat this album, correct errors, address the album differently, we were novices so we had no idea what we were doing. Some songs have the problem of, for example, that I would be quite unable to sing it now, I already could not sing at the time but I did not care , I knew nothing and it had not crossed my mind that I had to sing live , or even that I could not stay in one place , static, but I had to move and do the show , a nightmare ! This is an opportunity to redo it all and all these factors combined led to this idea, this album, Pariah 's Child .

G: This is a great way for younger discover that Sonata Arctica was in its infancy, indeed!

TK: People are going to hate the idea , it's not cool to rewrite history , repeat something you 've done in the past but it would be closer to a copy that it is possible to . It will change the tone of some songs , change some settings , just a little ! All songs will be recognizable , not like the versions of Wolf & Raven or Letter To Dana I made it a few years ago , there were very different ones ! 8th Commandment , Blank File and all other songs will be as close to the original as possible. The idea is to re-register Ecliptica with what we know now, but we will still have the opportunity to talk about this later I think.
Artwork, recording and release dates are yet to be comfirmed, or if the album will see an international release.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by foerg » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:39 pm

i would like to hear this!

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Mormegil » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Amazing idea! I know nobody likes Ecliptica, a classic in its own genre, just the way it is!

But seriously, I'm sure I'll enjoy listening this while viewing the new and improved Star Wars original trilogy!

Has anyone listened to Manowar's recent re-recording of Kings of Metal btw? Because I hear it totally captures the energy, feel and essence of the original and doesn't suck hairy donkey balls at all!

I'm sure all of their fans, myself included will end up loving this even more than the original!

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Flavio Ontivero » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:59 pm

I think that Kakko dont have the fucking idea what do with sonata arctica

is one the best cd of the band and he will re record??

is as Roger waters re corded The wall Without David Gilmour
and with snowy white

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by SatanicSmile » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:08 pm

We thought it would be weird but after all, why not? This is something I wanted to do for a while, repeat this album, correct errors, address the album differently, we were novices so we had no idea what we were doing.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:05 pm

Wow Tony. You recorded a FINE album, several years into your bands career, that had no major production errors, no major performance errors, and was generally well liked, and you want to rerecord it?



Wow.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:19 pm

His voice wasn't as clear back then. And why not? It'd be interesting. :)

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:51 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:His voice wasn't as clear back then. And why not? It'd be interesting. :)
Because it's an insult to his past work
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Flavio Ontivero » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:56 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:His voice wasn't as clear back then. And why not? It'd be interesting. :)
this is one poop of his sound enginieer

stratovarius have a lot cds that no sound correctly and missed a lot part of jens johansson keyboard too

they can do a remastered, but re build the cd??

No forgot this:

Sonata arctica only record:

1. drums (as much 10 tracks of drums that is percusion, is ones of the instruments more easy to mix)

2. one bass (1 track)

4. one keyboard (That inst very multiple tracks, maybe 3 as much i listen, one keyboard is easy to mix too why whatever shit sound good in a keyboard, included if the sound engineer take the wrong filter)

5. One guitar, this is hard to mix why in powermetal style need sound agressive, powerful, massive, maybe 2 in rythm and 1 in lead, 3 tracks depending the sound that the musician take)

6. One voice (1 in lead and in metal choir 4 for independent melody?, but kakko have very tinny voice color, maybe one choir on kakko mean much more tracks in voice, but this depend of the sound engineer skills when select tony's filters.)

The huge disaster do it his sound engineer, that this can be repaired with a new remastered if the companies use busses and no apply destructive editions in the main tracks.

Re record the album is only one excuse to got a new hit, I think


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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:28 pm

I just would like to point out...
My favorite solo musician, Mr. Mike Oldfield (whom you may have seen at the London 2012 opening ceremony) re-recorded his first 1973 album, Tubular Bells in the year 2003. The re-recorded version sounds very different, but let us remember... these re-recorded albums do NOT eliminate the original versions.

Some people don't like the 2003 version of Tubular Bells, but the 1973 version is still there... but then again, Oldfield's fans have a much more open mind... kindda learn that when you follow a musician with over 40 years of career.

I really don't see the problem on a band/musician wanting to re-record a previous album. It's their music, and again... the new version doesn't discard the original one. It's not even an enhancement to the original. It's just a new different version.

I didn't even say the album was going to be good. I don't know how good or bad it's going to be, but I'd rather wait and then actually LISTEN to it.
I wasn't expecting you guys to have such a close mind on the subject, but ok.
Rebel wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:His voice wasn't as clear back then. And why not? It'd be interesting. :)
Because it's an insult to his past work
It's funny. Songs are not even recorded yet and you are already judging them based on pretty much nothing.

A little hard to take you seriously like that.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:35 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:I just would like to point out...
My favorite solo musician, Mr. Mike Oldfield (whom you may have seen at the London 2012 opening ceremony) re-recorded his first 1973 album, Tubular Bells in the year 2003. The re-recorded version sounds very different, but let us remember... these re-recorded albums do NOT eliminate the original versions.

Some people don't like the 2003 version of Tubular Bells, but the 1973 version is still there... but then again, Oldfield's fans have a much more open mind... kindda learn that when you follow a musician with over 40 years of career.

I really don't see the problem on a band/musician wanting to re-record a previous album. It's their music, and again... the new version doesn't discard the original one. It's not even an enhancement to the original. It's just a new different version.

I didn't even say the album was going to be good. I don't know how good or bad it's going to be, but I'd rather wait and then actually LISTEN to it.
I wasn't expecting you guys to have such a close mind on the subject, but ok.
Rebel wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:His voice wasn't as clear back then. And why not? It'd be interesting. :)
Because it's an insult to his past work
It's funny. Songs are not even recorded yet and you are already judging them based on pretty much nothing.

A little hard to take you seriously like that.
I'm not judging the songs, I'm judging Tony Kakko's decision to rerecord the songs. Which is insulting.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:37 pm

Rebel wrote: I'm not judging the songs, I'm judging Tony Kakko's decision to rerecord the songs. Which is insulting.
I don't know because I wasn't arround when it happened but... were you also like this in 2006 with Replica and My land? :?

You speak of this as if it was unheard of, or never been done before.

Do you HATE the 2006 versions of those two songs as well?
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Mormegil » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:44 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:Oldfield's fans have a much more open mind...
Call it closed-mindedness, but fans being protective of an album that matters to them could also be interpreted as being a good quality.

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:13 pm

Mormegil wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:Oldfield's fans have a much more open mind...
Call it closed-mindedness, but fans being protective of an album that matters to them could also be interpreted as being a good quality.
It's not an alteration of the original work. it's a new performance of the old material.

Thing they have been doing for years in countless gigs?... :?

The original Ecliptica isn't going anywhere. You don't even have to listen to the 2014 version if you don't wanna alter your perception of the album.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeonVomit » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:09 pm

Rebel wrote:Wow Tony. You recorded a FINE album, several years into your bands career, that had no major production errors, no major performance errors, and was generally well liked, and you want to rerecord it?



Wow.
Classic Manowar trick. If you can't be bothered to write a new album, re-record an old one, people will complain, and then buy it anyway.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:23 am

NeonVomit wrote:If you can't be bothered to write a new album
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 7 days?
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:36 am

Let's wait and see how Pariah's Child is. If it really is going back to the roots, and not some bullshit album like SGHN and TDOG, then I would completely support the idea of re-recording Ecliptica.

And besides, I don't like the way Kakko sings in Ecliptica. His voice wasn't clear enough to understand what he was saying. I wanna sing not to the misheard lyrics, dammit!

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:04 am

Do you know why a musician should never apologize for bad sound at a concert? Because even if everything is absolutely fine, or completely fucked, you don't want to draw the audience's attention that way. A good musician never insults his own work, even if it sucks, because when you insult something that fans love, you're insulting the taste of that fan.

Matt Smith of Theocracy recently did some work on the debut Theocracy album (That was entirely him on the original version). I talked with him to understand his approach, and he took it very seriously to restore only what was necessary to record and really wrong, but to maintain as much as possible to respect his original work, and not to insult his fans in that way. Sonata rerecording the original Ecliptica is an indictment, by Tony Kakko, on that album, and it's not a good one. You're right, I still have the original, and I can still enjoy it, but my respect for Tony Kakko has taken a hit.

Blind Guardian has the same problem, with their incessant rerecordings of The Bard's Song. Sure, it's only one song, and it sounds a little bit nicer every time, but their decision to do that is a statement that they're not satisfied with the, beloved, original. It puts a bit of a sour taste in my mouth on the whole album some days when I listen to Somewhere Far Beyond.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Flavio Ontivero » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:22 am

Rebel wrote:Do you know why a musician should never apologize for bad sound at a concert? Because even if everything is absolutely fine, or completely fucked, you don't want to draw the audience's attention that way. A good musician never insults his own work, even if it sucks, because when you insult something that fans love, you're insulting the taste of that fan.

Matt Smith of Theocracy recently did some work on the debut Theocracy album (That was entirely him on the original version). I talked with him to understand his approach, and he took it very seriously to restore only what was necessary to record and really wrong, but to maintain as much as possible to respect his original work, and not to insult his fans in that way. Sonata rerecording the original Ecliptica is an indictment, by Tony Kakko, on that album, and it's not a good one. You're right, I still have the original, and I can still enjoy it, but my respect for Tony Kakko has taken a hit.

Blind Guardian has the same problem, with their incessant rerecordings of The Bard's Song. Sure, it's only one song, and it sounds a little bit nicer every time, but their decision to do that is a statement that they're not satisfied with the, beloved, original. It puts a bit of a sour taste in my mouth on the whole album some days when I listen to Somewhere Far Beyond.
Ecliptica isnt a good album? if is more nice that the last ones!

god... how many years I forgot to the poor sonata arctica ? :shock:

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:47 am

Rebel wrote:Sonata rerecording the original Ecliptica is an indictment, by Tony Kakko, on that album, and it's not a good one
Tony never said Ecliptica was bad. And you seem to fail to see the point of the re-recording.

It's a celebration, and a simple desire to aproach the songs differently, which they have been doing for a LONG TIME in live shows.

Oh, but I don't see anyone complain about the altered My Land or 8th Commandment versions of For the Sake of Revenge, because they are very different from the album versions, specially drums during solos, and the solos themselves.

Artists tend to revisit old work and attempt to perform it again, to see how it turns out. How they have matured, and how will their work sound/look/feel with them as older men/women.

As an example, at the top of my head... Herbert Von Karajan recorded many versions of Beethoven's symphonies across the years. They are different, and a newer version doesn't insult an earlier work.

And examples like that one are all over the place.

The Beatles have so many versions of some songs out there as well.

There's plenty of versions of Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Phantom of the Opera, but Webber isn't insulting Michael Crawford's version by releasing a version with a diferent singer, or an entirely new cast for that matter.

Stratovarius has a 1996 version of Future Shock with Kotipelto on vocals. You are gonna tell me Tolkki's insulting his original version?

I heard Valhalla's 2011 rendition, and it's good. I don't compare it to the original, I just listen to them separately when I'm on different moods. The new one by the way is vastly superior mixing/mastering wise. Do I miss Kai Hansen's guest vocals? Yeah... but If I wanna listen to that, I just listen to the original version.

If Tony was like "Oh, we are going to use the same tracks but replace Janni and Janne with Elias and Pasi"... THAT would be kindda weird.

I see you just making a lot of asumptions, and really just have a very close mind towards the whole matter of re-recordings.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:05 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:If you can't be bothered to write a new album
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 7 days?
Why release one album when you can release two?

But you're right, it was unfair to compare SA to Manowar. Manowar have re-recorded like 7 albums or something.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:27 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:If you can't be bothered to write a new album
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 7 days?
Why release one album when you can release two?

But you're right, it was unfair to compare SA to Manowar. Manowar have re-recorded like 7 albums or something.
I'd be annoyed if they were doing only Ecliptica 2014 this year. A project like this should NOT have priority over new material I belive.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:08 pm

Kiske's Past in Different Ways was somehow "insulting" to his earlier works, but you have to realize it's just a different approach. Two different entities. They can't be compared, you just listen! 8)
He's still my favorite singer. Whether in Avantasia or Unisonic or his solo projects he still manages to impress the listener.

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:09 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:Kiske's Past in Different Ways was somehow "insulting" to his earlier works, but you have to realize it's just a different approach. Two different entities. They can't be compared, you just listen! 8)
He's still my favorite singer. Whether in Avantasia or Unisonic or his solo projects he still manages to impress the listener.
When you mentioned Kiske you reminded me of Helloween's Unarmed
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:05 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:Kiske's Past in Different Ways was somehow "insulting" to his earlier works, but you have to realize it's just a different approach. Two different entities. They can't be compared, you just listen! 8)
He's still my favorite singer. Whether in Avantasia or Unisonic or his solo projects he still manages to impress the listener.
When you mentioned Kiske you reminded me of Helloween's Unarmed
See? That's what we're trying to say. That doesn't mean Helloween wanted to piss on its own art. You just do it because why not!

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:43 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:Kiske's Past in Different Ways was somehow "insulting" to his earlier works, but you have to realize it's just a different approach. Two different entities. They can't be compared, you just listen! 8)
He's still my favorite singer. Whether in Avantasia or Unisonic or his solo projects he still manages to impress the listener.
When you mentioned Kiske you reminded me of Helloween's Unarmed
See? That's what we're trying to say. That doesn't mean Helloween wanted to piss on its own art. You just do it because why not!
But there was a defined purpose to that record. First of all, it put Deris' voice to a lot of Helloween classics, but more importantly, it was something goofy that they did to try something different.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by SentineLEX » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:32 pm

I'm a fan of re-recordings. It's always nice to have two renditions of something instead of one.

Right now Ecliptica is my least favorite album. If the re-recording changes my opinion on that, I'll actually shell out the money for the new album as well.

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by adrian9 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:39 pm

im not a fan of this re-doing things
now tony says the album has some flaws and whatnot, I guess it depends of the eye of the beholder but in any case that album put them in the map back in 99 and since them its been regarded as a "classic" of euro power metal alongside the likes of Visions, land of the free, etc.

I compare this thing to those remakes hollywood is doing now that they are running out of ideas or dont care to invest in new things, shit like the new
robocop, total recall...even with better special effects they cant surpass the original one with flaws and all...that is part of the charm.

in any case.fuck it.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:28 am

adrian9 wrote: I compare this thing to those remakes hollywood is doing now that they are running out of ideas or dont care to invest in new things
>New
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 2 days?

And about movie remakes, you are gonna pretend these are bad?...

True Grit (2010), The Fly (1986), The Ten Commandments (1956), The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), A Fistful of Dollars (1964), Ocean's Eleven (2001), Scarface (1983), The Thing (1982), Ben Hur (1959), The Ring (2002), The Departed (2006), Cape Fear (1991), Heat 1995...

Please... :?
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:35 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:
adrian9 wrote: I compare this thing to those remakes hollywood is doing now that they are running out of ideas or dont care to invest in new things
>New
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 2 days?

And about movie remakes, you are gonna pretend these are bad?...

True Grit (2010), The Fly (1986), The Ten Commandments (1956), The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), A Fistful of Dollars (1964), Ocean's Eleven (2001), Scarface (1983), The Thing (1982), Ben Hur (1959), The Ring (2002), The Departed (2006), Cape Fear (1991), Heat 1995...

Please... :?
Those are more akin to covers than true remakes in this sense. I can name precisely one director who made a beloved work, only to decide 15-20 years later that he needed to go back and change everything. You can too. I don't even need to say his name, only that Han shot first, and the fact that this is now on T-shirts tells you all you need to know about an artist reimagining past successes.
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