What was main reason behind Iraq war

[Sknight2112]

It's a mystery, we will never know...

OBTW, I read an article in a french magazine (Marianne, for those who know it) about how they managed to recruit new soldiers to go in Iraq. No one wants to get into the Army so they even go in elementary school to make some propanganda like they do it vey well to make sure the kids get in the army when they're older... God bless America !!

Theres either Marines or Army guys, sometimes Airforce at my Highschool almost weekly atleast twice a month usualy. They are really pissed bad attiudes too. It really doesnt reflect well on the service when they have nothing better to do than give crap to highschool kids...

Its funny that you say that. Really, most Americans ironically don't eat the food they are stereotyped for. Chinese and Japanese are really popular in my area, in particular. I guess the media put a pretty bad message on the junk food at McDonalds/stuff like that.

What state do you live in? Everyone here in California is fat. EVERYONE. Everywhere you go there is littered fast food bags and garbage and fatty foods in every store and Mcdonalds on every corner. Im pretty suremroe than 1/2 of Californians are considered obesse and i wouldnt be suprised if the percent was MUCh higher for San Jose.

I think the main problem is that the American government and so much of the population doesnt realize that American is NOT synonymous with right Just because it works for us doesnt mean it is going to for everyone or everyone else should do it. Sadam was a terrible person but its none of our concern. We cant just start wars because we like the way things work in America better than how other people are doing some thing. We can disagree with Dictatorship but its not our country therefore we should not interfere. You know things were a lot better in Iraq when Sadam was incharge. He may have killed and tortured his own people but look at the country now hundreds die everyday, bombs explode daily on the side of the road, now there actaully IS terrorists in the country, hundreds of Iraqi's have been killed just for trying to help their country by joining the police or army, and thats not including the numerous events that have been held out from American television.

In my opinion the only way to fix the current problems in the country is to return to isolationism but its far too late for that.....

[fifthtea_sausage]

Yeah spanish people are for sure backing bush, just look how immune from ANY terrorist attacks those two wars made spain!!!

You're right. Its not worth trying. Whats the point of even trying to fight terrorism. They are going to be able to attack us anyway. Lets just sit back and wait.

but how can that be, when all the terrorists asses were kicked in iraq and afghanistan!?

Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. It was about Saddam and WMD's.
Afghanistan kicked Al Qaeda from free operation without their country.

lets see how amazing you think his job is after next terrorist attack, wherever it is.

Defeating Terrorism 100% is inevitable.
So next time anything happens you are going to say I am wrong.
Maybe one day they will kill your people.
Try to invade them? Nope. We won't let you.

You don't want to discuss Iraq, in a thread which is about Iraq

The conversation diverged to Bush/Terrorism. Thats what I want to focus on.

You should at least pay attention to the voting results which are above, i think they say it all.....................

I don't give a shit what the polls say. I'm telling you why I love my country and admire its leader. Where are you from? Lets find some dirt on that, shall we?

[gon]

Fifth.....

I have the impression, sadly, that we live, you and me, in different worlds.

You live in U.S.A.

I live in planet Earth.


Spain, for your knowledge,was dominated by muslims for 800 years, ONLY... so their influence in our culture is incredible. Córdoba, in the XII century,was around 100.000 inhabitants, had public lights in the streets, drinking water in every house with bathrooms, and they invented chess, maths, and had many important figures in every side of the culture when the rest of Europe threw away the shit through the windows!; Traditionally, we have good relationships with muslim countries because of that. Until Mr. Bigotes, ex president Aznar became to the power. He supported inmediately U.S.A. in a ILLEGAL WAR ( never forget that, you use the U.N. as the dustbin of your house, specially when your country forgets to pay their fees...) against the opinion of the spanish people, and being in front of the rest of Europe, except ( again) the 52 estate of U.S., Great Britain ( why I said this? easy, I don´t say it: the 95% of my customers are british, as in my area there are around 1.000.000 british citizens living here, and this is THEIR opinion) and Italy; the rest, specially your "beloved" France and Germany, said NO. Germany has in their country around 8 million people from Muslim countries, specially turkish, and Turkey is negociating their membership with the CEE. I live 14 kms far from Marocco, as I live in the south of Spain, in the Straight of Gibraltar, and I see every day lots of muslim people hanging around the streets in my town, and sometimes, I am afraid because of you never know if between them, there can be a terrorist, or someone who helps them; but this is not a valid reason to take all of them to a jail, without a fair trial, and damn them to be for more than 3 years in a infrahuman conditions ( Guantánamo, maybe?); no, that´s not the way. There are certain mad killers in muslim countries, many probably, but, in Russia there are muslims who supported the 11-s and 11-m attacks, so... should be declare the war to Russia? Bin Lande is arabian. Why not invade Arabia? BTW, is the biggest productor of oil in the world!
I repit, America must " discover" the rest of the world. You don´t know so much about it, and that´s your biggest mistake. (Well, I am talking in plural, sorry about that, I refer Mr. Bush... and relatives!)

I remember a phrase of Jeff Bush, who speaks spanish quite good: saludos a la gente de la república de España"!!!!!1

In Spain we are having also the problems with the fat and junk food. It´s sad as we have one of the best diets in the world, the mediterranean couisine, equilibrated and delicious, but young people seems to prefer to be : a) obess; b) extremely thin.....Not understand that, but...

[NordicStorm]

The problem is that Bush has not been very effective in fighting the war on terror (indeed, it's naïve to think sheer force and "killing all the terrorists" is going to work without fundamental changes in other areas of policy as well).

Afghanistan was botched. The US controls Kabul, but that's about it. In other areas of the country, the Taliban is still fighting US forces. Al-Qaeda continues to exist. Bin Ladin still remains unaccounted for.
Saudi Arabia has yet to be held to account, and Pakistan, an alleged US ally, is about as dodgy as an ally could be while still being considered an ally. Especially after a senior Pakistani official is caught selling nuclear weapons secrets to North Korea, and General Musharraf's first act is...to pardon the guy.

And while it is convenient to now pretend that Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror, it's erroneous. It was very much a part of the war on terror at the time of the invasion. There were the much hyped and later disproved Al-Qaeda connections, for example. And while everyone now is well aware that the justifications for going into Iraq was unadulterated horse manure, that war has proven to be a serious distraction from the actual war on terror, in terms of money, time, personnel and attention. The Abu-Ghraib prison abuse scandal has to be every terrorist recruiters' wet dream.

All this while security on the homefront has not been handled well. Seaports are still not being controlled properly, chemical plants are not being properly safeguarded, and apparently the food supply is fairly easy to hit (at least if we are to believe Tommy Thompson). New screening systems at airports are not being installed due to a lack of funds.
The greatest achievement of the Department of Homeland Security seems to be those color-coded charts and duct tape, much to the amusement of late night talk show hosts everywhere.

And if you add to that Bush running up record deficits, a gay marriage ban amendment, an imaginary social security problem, lousy environmental policies...you're left with a president who's not particularly good at his job, and not very good at picking competent people to surround himelf with.

But somehow, I'm sure it's all Osama Bin Clinton's fault.
I'm equally sure that criticizing Bush makes you anti-American. Because, as we all know, questioning authority and the government, especially when it's Republican, is not so much a fundamental aspect of a functioning democracy as it is a tool of the left-wing euro-socialist-liberal-whiners who hate America.

[fifthtea_sausage]

I am stubborn.
I confess.

Any given day if I went to a forum and saw my country being attacked I would probaby defend her. Its just that you, all of you, must understand that I am American and I love my country. And perhaps I'm not a realist, It just hurts me when I see so many people here filled with so much hate against the country which gave me everything I have.

[Just a Vampire]

I guess Bush did the Irak war 'cause he want to have all the control over the petroleum. He is a really crazy man, as saddam and osama et al That war was a kind of publicity, because the US image was in a low point. Besides, the US economy sucks. They have some debts with the IMF. And, he just wanna some attention.
soon, the second half of the topic

[Bryant]

Oh man, it is always very amusing and shocking at the same time, that so many people believe in this "saving the oil- sources". Get rid of that idea !
Well, the sad thing here is, the reason of that war can`t be put into such "easy" words - no insult or critic to the autor of this topic. I think they were some reasons involved, like at first showing strength like "Look, we americans are still here". Then, to get a "base" or a habour in that area, then maybe Bush thought " I end that campaign my father began". And they maybe thought it was just time to get rid of Saddam, which should have been long before that I think.

[Just a Vampire]

Sure
that's one of the reasons behind the war. Bush need to make happy his daddy, so he began the war. Besides, there is a kinda conspiration to get the control of the world. the US has no resources in their land, so he needs the resources that there are in africa and south america (that's behind the Colombia plan and their moves in Latin america). the petroleum in the US land is empty, so he went to Irak. and so one and so one....

and a question: if Osama was behind the 11-s, why does Bush have nexus with the bin laden family? The answer: $$$$$$$$$

And about terror: Colombia is a violent country, so we are can live with the bombs and the war and that. In US there wasn't a war in the ir territory since the civil war, and people can't live with the violence in their doors.. So, before the 11-s Bush feel afraid of ev'rything. "oh no, we aren't invincible, what we gonna do now? Oh, We will begin a war to scare the world and make them know who rules here." result: a endless war, a lot of soldiers dying without a reason, tortures, etc. And the people begin to pursue whatever is arab or latin. The 99,99% of the arab or latin people is not terrorist, they just wanna make their lifes. But now, they must be fear, 'cause any nigth or day they could be killed by a drunken "patriot". The war and the Bush's politics did that. So, I guess there could be something ethnic in the reasons, and Bush used terror to make it. And he convinced the US people thet the war was for the safety of the world and that crap. what a liar.

And something related to history: US always had that "i-am-the-savior-of-the-world" attitude. Look in the books, in 1903, when Colombia sold Panamá to US. what a mistake. We could sold it to England, to France, To japan, maybe, but We sold it to the US. and Before that, Roosevelt said "we are the "police"of America and we must take care of all the countries there" What happened to Panamá people? they was like a colony of the US "independent" but under the US government, till they get their Independence. And that's what Bush wanna do now with Irak, Afghanistan and the entire world.

PD: this isn't against the US people, just only against the US government and Bush, especially Bush. Hope you understant what i wrote, 'cause maybe i wrote the ords wrong or something like that. My language obviously isn't english.

[gon]

I am stubborn.
I confess.

Any given day if I went to a forum and saw my country being attacked I would probaby defend her. Its just that you, all of you, must understand that I am American and I love my country. And perhaps I'm not a realist, It just hurts me when I see so many people here filled with so much hate against the country which gave me everything I have.

man, these things happens really frequently, more than you think, everywhere you go, with different countris, not U.S.A. only. But the difference is that the rest of countries don´t invade other nations without a legal approvement of U.N. and break the law so much as U.S. If you feel offended, I am sorry, but it´s true, it´s not a lie... what it´s offensive is your president and his secretaries ( ministers)!

[fifthtea_sausage]

I'm not really offended, Gon.
Just a discussion.

Just A Vampire, I really don't think Bush has a secret conspiracy to control the world. I mean there are boundaries here. He isn't evil, he isn't a fascist, and he isn't trying to take over the world. I live in the US and I can tell you that right here.

[Agent Orange]

@ NeonVomit: We hate your president (and some of his sidekicks too), he's done nothing to change the world for the better (all he did was make it worse) and I'm sure he'll keep the same course like he did the previous 4 years and enrage more countries with his foreign policy. IMO, the ones who voted for him are stupid and blind (though I doubt Kerry would do it any better).

Im not American I'm not even British. I come from Cyprus...

Anyone can make a mistake, the rest of my opinion still remains the same.

[Just a Vampire]

Anyone can make a mistake, the rest of my opinion still remains the same.

i agree

[Just a Vampire]

Anyone can make a mistake, the rest of my opinion still remains the same.

i agree

[doc_holliday]

if USA wanted the good of the world, why does it allways try to bring down Communist regimes?

did you know CIA controls the drug business all across the world?

[Just a Vampire]

Sure
there is a lot of money behind the death of the junkies, and Us need it. so they have to control de drugs traffic.
Once, Pablo Escobar ( the capo di tutti capi in colombia i the 80`s) said: legalize the drugs ad I'll pay all the external debt of Colombia. (dam it, if I could do it, I'll legalize the drugs. But there is nothig i can do, 'cause Pablo Escobar is dead...)