What's Wrong ??

[dupinguez]

Ok before being called a troll or a dic*head that's always complaining I want to say that this topic can only help strato imo.

So here's is the thing : what do you find wrong with the music of Stratovarius??

I believe that not all of you find Strato-music absolutely perfect so post here you're negative comments about their music, that could maybe help them to realize what could make them progress (if they care about our opinion of course )

So here's my opinion :

-too cheesy and redundant lyrics like "our planets could be better if people were nice etc etc"
-too high singing melody, sometimes Koti is not able to catch these high notes live and a lower voice could sound... hmmmmm... restful for the ears
-too much of double bass drum
-sometimes, the "solo battle" between guitar and keyboards in the middle of the songs are not very inventive and too much foreseeable

that's all for today

[Dark Angel]

I agree with something you have written...like the too high vocal tracks(I've the same problems with my band)or some ridondant lyrics...
About the "solo-battle" I think that some of these have made great them, but sometimes they steal space to melodies...
It's a my, personal, wish that they will return to work as in Forth Dimension and Visions, those are for me the best albums.

[shaz]

Some of the more "average" songs would, in my opinion, sound absolutely killer if Koti would sing them a bit lower,
because I feel that it's not the high notes that really release all the potential in his voice - it's the lower stuff,
like for example in 'Season Of Faith's Perfection' (which is IMO one of Stratovarius' most touching pieces ever)

[Seiya]

if have to say that the very high notes of Koti.

it's awesome that he can get to those high notes, but its kinda stressful for the ear (dont know how else to say it)
I agree that maybe in the albums it doesnt sound too bad even though id really like if he could at least sing an octave below in some songs.

I dont know if in live shows koti sings an octave below because I have never seen them live, but from the recorded live songs Ive heard, you can tell that koti is trying way too hard to get to those notes, it almost hurts to hear it. heh an octave below would be perfect.

[Bryant]

What I don`t like on Strato ?
Hard to put in words ...... Some melodies like "Speed of light", some songs are just too fast, some are too "nice" like most of Elements part1, they leave out live too many keyboard-lines, Koti is too high on Elements part1, that`s it I think.

[Holy Light]

I like power metal for what it is. I really can't complain about anything.

I have noticed that Timo's solos don't have the energy and feeling that they used to have. I'm guessing that his problems were affecting his playing on the elements albums.

I love guitar/keyboard duals. That should never change. Malmsteen stopped doing that (I thought it was a bad move).

[-Noctem-]

A lot of the songs on albums seem to be 'fillers' rather than.. well, songs, they just seem rushed to fill an album, hard to explain, but not all albums;
Visions, Episode and Destiny seem fairly free of 'fillers' but hey, just my opinion.

[ciruelo]

i'm not agreed with briant, i think those song are greats and without that kind of song they would be all the same, it would turn boring...

i've never gone to a live gig of strato but i saw them on a video and the high notes where auful. ( sorry... )

but anyway that would be all. it's a great band keep that energy going

[Livia Dencker]

Sometimes I love when Timo sings high... Paradise, for example...
But I prefer when Timo doesn't sing so high. I liked more the way he sings in his solo albuns than Elements albuns...

[stratoplayer]

solo battles rock!!! i love them, especially in legions, black diamond and will the sun rise!!!!

timos high notes; i like it most of the time but sometimes a tone or so lower would make it better

filler songs; not necessarily, while i do not like all the songs in all the cds (although i have favorites in all the albums) those are koti/tolkki expressing their feelings, not commercial crap like most pop bands who use the filler songs ALOT.

besides the vocals the only other thing is that the bass is not really heard in some songs, holy light for example

[Holy Light]

Timo's high voice is awesome. I would have him use it often as in Stratovarius.

[crostrato]

There music is perfict, and just perfict, they dont make music for me or for you thay make music for themself, and it is up to you, will you buy there music or no, if they listen other people what to do with there music than that is mean that they make music for money.What they are certainly not doing, thats what I am feling when I listen ther music!!!!! (sorry for my english)THEY ARE DOING IT FROM THERE SOULS

[dupinguez]

There music is perfict, and just perfict, they dont make music for me or for you thay make music for themself, and it is up to you, will you buy there music or no, if they listen other people what to do with there music than that is mean that they make music for money.THEY ARE DOING IT FROM THERE SOULS What they are certainly not doing, thats what I am feling when I listen ther music!!!!! (sorry for my english)

I don't agree... You can't say "their music is perfect" first, because there's no perfection out there.
Then, when you make mistakes at your studies and then your teacher says "better do it that way" you don't answer "shut up i don't make my homework for you nor money". It's a question of making things better, no more. It's worth "leveling up" by others advices imo.

[crostrato]

To buy or not to buy - This is question for you

[khamael]

There music is perfict, and just perfict, they dont make music for me or for you thay make music for themself, and it is up to you, will you buy there music or no, if they listen other people what to do with there music than that is mean that they make music for money.THEY ARE DOING IT FROM THERE SOULS What they are certainly not doing, thats what I am feling when I listen ther music!!!!! (sorry for my english)

I don't agree... You can't say "their music is perfect" first, because there's no perfection out there.
Then, when you make mistakes at your studies and then your teacher says "better do it that way" you don't answer "shut up i don't make my homework for you nor money". It's a question of making things better, no more. It's worth "leveling up" by others advices imo.

Nothing is perfect, i agree with you at 99%....anyway...


Better...what is better? better cant be put as an axiom in general... For you something is better, for another the same thing is worse.
So i think that speaking about what people dont like of Strato-music just to speak could be interesting to understand other's point of views, but make this discussion to "make them progress" as you said, is simply useless...

First, who we are to have the presumption to make them progress? It's a little arrogant.
I can have an opinion on Jens's arrangements for example(and he can listen to me and listen to my advice if he want,), but i surely CANT make him progress in anyway. Same things for the others member.

Second, try to imagine thousand of "to make things better" opinions, eventually contratsting....to listen and analyse? poor Strato-guys!!!

Anyway music come also from the soul, from the deepest, hidden part of the composer...you cant change that.

[dupinguez]

There music is perfict, and just perfict, they dont make music for me or for you thay make music for themself, and it is up to you, will you buy there music or no, if they listen other people what to do with there music than that is mean that they make music for money.THEY ARE DOING IT FROM THERE SOULS What they are certainly not doing, thats what I am feling when I listen ther music!!!!! (sorry for my english)

I don't agree... You can't say "their music is perfect" first, because there's no perfection out there.
Then, when you make mistakes at your studies and then your teacher says "better do it that way" you don't answer "shut up i don't make my homework for you nor money". It's a question of making things better, no more. It's worth "leveling up" by others advices imo.

Nothing is perfect, i agree with you at 99%....anyway...


Better...what is better? better cant be put as an axiom in general... For you something is better, for another the same thing is worse.
So i think that speaking about what people dont like of Strato-music just to speak could be interesting to understand other's point of views, but make this discussion to "make them progress" as you said, is simply useless...

First, who we are to have the presumption to make them progress? It's a little arrogant.
I can have an opinion on Jens's arrangements for example(and he can listen to me and listen to my advice if he want,), but i surely CANT make him progress in anyway. Same things for the others member.

Second, try to imagine thousand of "to make things better" opinions, eventually contratsting....to listen and analyse? poor Strato-guys!!!

Anyway music come also from the soul, from the deepest, hidden part of the composer...you cant change that.

You're right, we're certainly not able to make them progress in any aspect of their music, and that's not a teacher/student relation between us and them (FAR FAR AWAY FROM THAT). But that's always good to mention what people dislike with what they do, and if it can help them in any way, well that's ok. If it can't, let's just discuss about our opinions, which are ONLY opinions anyway.
I really don't want them to make "music for people" which means easy-composed, commercial and all that shit.

My first post was a sort of "preventive post", i don't wanted to be considered like a fool who always complains, because some people are you know what i mean?
I just wanted to mention my pacific intentions
I haven't ANY pretention of being able to teach them how to compose music

[Big Red]

-too much of double bass drum

Hmm, I find there's not enough.

My opinion:
- Too many slow songs (hence the lack of double-bass drum).
- Originality has been lacking, especially in song structure. Visions was excellent, but it was all downhill from there (though what a hill!). It really shows on Destiny. There have been great songs since that album, but no truly great CDs.
- Too many CDs end with slow or acoustic songs. You need to end with a bang, not a thump (again, Visions got it right). I would've liked Infinite a lot more if they had scrapped "Celestial Dream" which will plague my record for all eternity.

[Stratowarius]

Whimp.Whimp. Have you nothing better to do, than whimp and whimp again

[Aresius]

mmm

i think that timo can play better solos.. more melodics like twilight symphony, will the sun rise, speed of light...ect not always going up and down with the minor harmonic scale.

thats it.. i think strato is almost perfect and balads kick ass!

[Twilightsymphony]

Whimp.Whimp. Have you nothing better to do,than whimp and whimp again

Unfortunately this isnt even intelligent enough to make jokes about. So i wont.

[MaFiaBoY]

-too cheesy and redundant lyrics like "our planets could be better if people were nice etc etc"
-too high singing melody, sometimes Koti is not able to catch these high notes live and a lower voice could sound... hmmmmm... restful for the ears
-too much of double bass drum
-sometimes, the "solo battle" between guitar and keyboards in the middle of the songs are not very inventive and too much foreseeable/quote]

I agree with you 100% about the lyrics and the double-bass. I thought I was the only one who didn't enjoy Jörg drumming lke a rythm-machine. Except 3 or 4 songs, Infinite and both Elements weren't masterpieces because of that. Tuomo was imo a thousand times better. About the high singing, sure it could be improved but it doesn't bother me that much. And about the solo-battles between TT and Jens, I din't even notice that one and I don't think there are too much of those. But yeah, perhaps it could be a little more inventive (Like those between Michel Romeo and Michael Pinnella, in TDWoT especially).

So I think the most annoying element in Strato music is the double-bass, there is way too much of it and it sometimes ruins the melody.

[Electric Eye]

rubbish

-too cheesy and redundant lyrics like "our planets could be better if people were nice etc etc"

I think it's better than singing about killing, raping, drinking blood, black masses etc.

-too high singing melody, sometimes Koti is not able to catch these high notes live and a lower voice could sound... hmmmmm... restful for the ears

his voice is one of the determinants of their original and unique style. There's no band that sounds the same on stage as in the studio. Take note of the fact that majority of people know Stratovarius from records, and have never heard them live. All mistakes doesn't disturb during live gig, because audience is so excited, so generaly no one cares about it. The only one opportunity to analyze it carefully is during liestening bootlegs, so that is why they are not authorized by musicans, but be sure that official live albums sounds OK.

-too much of double bass drum

oh, come on, double bass drum (or just simply double kick) is a quintessence of power metal, there's never too much of it, for me at least

-sometimes, the "solo battle" between guitar and keyboards in the middle of the songs are not very inventive and too much foreseeable

this is also a part of their style, specially sound of those solos, there's nothing to do about it - if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

[Twilightsymphony]

rubbish

-too cheesy and redundant lyrics like "our planets could be better if people were nice etc etc"

I think it's better than singing about killing, raping, drinking blood, black masses etc.

A bit perhaps, its equally cheesy though

I agree about the lyrics,and the vocals. My main point of being not that interested anymore is a general lack of atmosphere though. i know this is quite a personal point, and i surely dont know what may be the specific point of criticsm in a technical way, but Dreamspace - visions have some kind of really intense atmosphere that i missed on the newer albums, IMO of course.

the double bass is ok i think...

I´d really be interested what could be archived with a second guitarist.

[Stratowarius]

Of course I can't brag of a similar intelligens and brillians as TWilligtsy, but I do recognize a whimp when I see one

[Slayer]

I think the double bass drum, the solos and the solo battles between guitar und keyboard are nearly perfect.
but the jari could play a little bit louder and Tk should try to sing just as high as he is able to sing live on stage.....
but all in all I think the music of Stratovarius is nearly perfect....

Bye Slayer

[Equinox]

I agree with ElectricEye 100%

[Patricia]

I agree with ElectricEye 100%

Agree too

[TimoTolkki]

It´s sweet to read this topic.
An artist must follow his/her own way without listening to anyone.
But it is almost impossible for an artist to survive without people.
But it is possible and some of the toughest guys have done it.
I always write all my songs to myself. They are my babies.
And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.
After playing in this band for 21 years and after playing guitar for 32 years I am still doing the same like I was doing always, I make music because I have music in me and it is a necessity for me to write songs.
I cannot live without music.

[Holy Light]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

This is true about most critics. Most of them just have their opinions and that's it. They feel music should be a certain way and that it must be their way.

Well, I think Stratovarius writes the best songs in the metal genre. I argue this with my friends constantly. If you can remember the melody when you are done listening to a song, it is a good one. But then again, everyone has their own views.

[stratoplayer]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

This is true about most critics. Most of them just have their opinions and that's it. They feel music should be a certain way and that it must be their way.

Well, I think Stratovarius writes the best songs in the metal genre. I argue this with my friends constantly. If you can remember the melody when you are done listening to a song, it is a good one. But then again, everyone has their own views.

i know, the only ones who write almost as good as timo are teh guys from rhapsody, although i beleive that sonata is going the same path that strato treaded and they will become the next strato
MAKE NO MISTAKE I LOVE STRATO AND HOPE THEY CONTINUE PLAYING FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!