What's Wrong ??

[khamael]

LIVE AND LET LIVE.. . .

. .. .got that ^ points...

[Aresius]

No way, you can fin cheap CDs if you search a little. I found Episode, Visions and Destiny at 12€ each and that imo is not expensive at all. Even about 20€ for a CD is imo a reasonale price, if it's a good one, it's worth it. So I don't like piracy for that, the ones who do that take for free what others are paying, if no one were paying, there would be no music to downoload at all, so somewhat those who download a lot take advantage from the other's money, and that's what imo is not correct in all this.

You are european... you can find cd at 12euros in argentina everywhere but here its a lot of money for 1 cd... personally i love buyng original cds first of all because i help the guts that inspired me and second of all because i dont know i feel powerfull hehehe.
But i also download cds, i download complete discographys but that doesnt mean that i wont but cds! remember that some people dont have the money.
Personally i think that downloading cds is not bad but selling copied cds sucks!!! other people making many for what our favorite bands compose sucks!

fifthtea_sausage wrote:
Well I kinda agree with what Timo says.
It takes such an arrogant person to say X is bad.

well i think that i speak for all of us than when we say: this band is bad or sucks... its just, a way of expresinge our point of view or our taste its not like where are gods and we know what is right and wrong

[dupinguez]

But i also download cds, i download complete discographys but that doesnt mean that i wont but cds! remember that some people dont have the money.
Personally i think that downloading cds is not bad but selling copied cds sucks!!! other people making many for what our favorite bands compose sucks!

I also think that downloading can be sometimes a good thing, for example when you hesitate to buy a cd, you download it and when it's bad you have saved your money, but when it's a good one then you MUST buy it instead of keeping it in your harddisk and listening to it, which is the thing that most people don't do

well i think that i speak for all of us than when we say: this band is bad or sucks... its just, a way of expressing our point of view or our taste its not like where are gods and we know what is right and wrong

Agree

[Equinox]

LIVE AND LET LIVE.. . .

. .. .got that ^ points...

You got that right, but that doesn't mean that is my religion.

Many thanks for buying our albums!!

Many thanks for making such an awesome music.

[khamael]

Mine neither it's a good mood to behave anyway.

[gerr]

Well in my opinion, nowadays is more profitable to download from the internet than buying the CD, even if u like the artist... and thats the problem. You have to pay 15 euro minimum (well well yes maybe you can find something for 12 euro) to buy a CDbox with a cd inside with 10 songs with the same quality that you have in the computer, and with a mini book with the lyrics and some photos. The box and the cd can be copied for just 2 euros, so you pay 13 euros for a minibook... do you think that this is profitable? I think that labels should or take down the prices or to sell a prodict more elaborated (not a plastic box... maybe some videos, bonus dvds, an elaborated book, you know something that really IS profitable), but seriously, I dont wanna pay 15 euros for a plastic box with 10 songs and a minibook, no thanks... but, anyway... as a good metalhead, I have bought minimum 1 CD from each of my favourite bands so I have like 50 cds.... and like 10 dvds, so yes, I collaborate wih my favourite bands... hehehe well thats my opinion...

[Equinox]

Mine neither it's a good mood to behave anyway.

Right back at ya, it is.

[Skelethos]

Feel free to start a "metal war", but I would rather prefer to see all the Warriors of Light united for one cause we all love: M E T A L!!!

Words of wisdom!
:headbang:
(Again just an opinion but how could anyone discuss about anything without opinions? Hmm...)

[cliff]

to buy a CDbox with a cd inside with 10 songs with the same quality that you have in the computer, and with a mini book with the lyrics and some photos. The box and the cd can be copied for just 2 euros, so you pay 13 euros for a minibook... .

You got it wrong.
one CD is MUCH more than just one booklet, one CD, and one CD case. It's months of writing, composition, conception, recording, mixing, producing, and a HUGE amount of money as a investissement.
Of course people can save lot of money with downloading, but think of it : if everyone would do that and never buy any CD (or even, like your case, just one CD every year), then you can expect the number of albums & bands to go down really fast.

Downloading is okay, if you want to listen to one album and be sure that you won't be disapointed by buying it, but it's a easy and selfish solution if you consider it like a treasure chest and get everything from it.

And I think 15€ is not a lot of money, if you really like the album.
(plus the fact that the prices of CDs in big musicstore are rather 19€ / 23€)
How many times do you listen one album ?
Some people spend 6€ for one pack of cigarettes that they waste in one day (and at the end it had brought nothing to them).
Some people can spend 60€ every week-end to parties and drinking.
Some people can spend 10€ to go and watch a movie in a theater.
Do you still think 15€ for one CD is a lot ? Sorry, but if you really like music and respect it as a art, you don't steal it.

[MaFiaBoY]

to buy a CDbox with a cd inside with 10 songs with the same quality that you have in the computer, and with a mini book with the lyrics and some photos. The box and the cd can be copied for just 2 euros, so you pay 13 euros for a minibook... .

You got it wrong.
one CD is MUCH more than just one booklet, one CD, and one CD case. It's months of writing, composition, conception, recording, mixing, producing, and a HUGE amount of money as a investissement.
Of course people can save lot of money with downloading, but think of it : if everyone would do that and never buy any CD (or even, like your case, just one CD every year), then you can expect the number of albums & bands to go down really fast.

Downloading is okay, if you want to listen to one album and be sure that you won't be disapointed by buying it, but it's a easy and selfish solution if you consider it like a treasure chest and get everything from it.

And I think 15€ is not a lot of money, if you really like the album.
(plus the fact that the prices of CDs in big musicstore are rather 19€ / 23€)
How many times do you listen one album ?
Some people spend 6€ for one pack of cigarettes that they waste in one day (and at the end it had brought nothing to them).
Some people can spend 60€ every week-end to parties and drinking.
Some people can spend 10€ to go and watch a movie in a theater.
Do you still think 15€ for one CD is a lot ? Sorry, but if you really like music and respect it as a art, you don't steal it.

Amen to that, I agree 100%.

[cliff]

That is what internet piracy is good for. It brings big record companies on their knees and will result in major attitude shift in music distribution in just a next few years.
Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

That's right. Technology can brings good and bad.
Music companies are now awared of the danger of downloading, so they decided to change their strategy and give more to the fans, like better booklet, better digipack and bonuses (like DVD bonus, and for the same price).
For the fans, it's only a good thing !

Okay, there is also that stupid "copy-protection" shit, but I'm 100% that this system will disapear really soon.

Then, there are those legal downloading things (like iTunes), which I personally consider as a really good thing ! Of course, computer freaks will always say "why would I pay 10€ for one album, when I can have it for free through P2P ? ", and some other music lovers will say "for 18€, I can have the same album with the booklet and the CD case !"...
But when you think of the other people, like 60 years old, they can listen audioclips of albums and if they like them, they can buy albums (or single tracks) at any time of the day, for a good price, and without moving from their home! People can still get the pros and the cons on that system, but no one can deny that this system is a real revolution !
Call me a freak or whatever, but I really love iTunes !

[MaFiaBoY]

Okay, there is also that stupid "copy-protection" shit, but I'm 100% that this system will disapear really soon.

Well, this "copy protection" can easily be broken but yeah, it's very annoying. If you have an album with it and want to make mp3s tu put on your iPod, no way. So basically you payed 15€ for an album you can't listen to whenever you want..

Then, there are those legal downloading things (like iTunes), which I personally consider as a really good thing ! Of course, computer freaks will always say "why would I pay 10€ for one album, when I can have it for free through P2P ? ", and some other music lovers will say "for 18€, I can have the same album with the booklet and the CD case !"...

Well yeah, I don't see the point in paying to download. If you want to download, then do it for free and save your money, if you want to buy then buy the actual CD. And BTW, I am a "computer frek" too, but I buy all my albums, funny

[cliff]

Well, this "copy protection" can easily be broken but yeah, it's very annoying. If you have an album with it and want to make mp3s tu put on your iPod, no way. So basically you payed 15€ for an album you can't listen to whenever you want..

What music companies don't seem to understand, is that people like you or I, who pay 15/20€ for one album, we buy because we really respect the music, and we don't share it on those P2P, or make tons of copies. (actually it's great to burn one compilation for a couple of friends of yours, to introduce those bands to them). And those stupid protections are a threat for people who buy, because, like you said, they can't transfert those songs to their MP3 player.
Most of the people who share those albums on P2P, or who sell copies on blackmarket or even on Ebay, are either professional hacker who can break absolutely everything and they have a professional hardware for copies and editing (buy a pirat CD in Russia and you won't even notice the difference with the original one !), either people who DON'T buy album, because music companies send them promo copies. Who do you think put those albums online, 2 months before the official release ? It's those fuckin' journalists (who never buy any CD because they get them for free !) and then, they sell those promo copies on eBay. And then, they call themselves "metal fan"...
No really, when you think of it. copy protection is totally stupid !!!
It brings more issues than solutions.

Well yeah, I don't see the point in paying to download. If you want to download, then do it for free and save your money, if you want to buy then buy the actual CD. And BTW, I am a "computer frek" too, but I buy all my albums, funny

Well, think of it : why do you buy one album ? is it because you respect the music and the artist, or because of the booklet (or both of them ?)
If your priority is to respect the music and save money, those legal solutions are great, because you get the CD for a good price, AND royalties go to the artists.

[MaFiaBoY]

About the copy-protection, I agree it's fucking stupid. Personall I never bought any album who had it but downloaded them instead, just for fun

About legal downloaded, I mean just see the thing through the eyes of the lambda-music-listener. You download all your albums on p2p and buy one in a month or so. And then whoa, you can pay to get exactly the same thing you get for free, the choice is easy When you pay, I think you can get some extra stuff (i.e. booklet and so on). But if it's ony to get mp3 files, it's a bit expensive (10 € / album )

[cliff]

But if it's ony to get mp3 files, it's a bit expensive (10 € / album )

The support is different, but at the end, you have exactly the same product (the album) !

At the time of vinyl records and tape records, I don't really think that people said "Why would I pay 10€ for a audio tape, when I can buy the vinyl for 13€ and record it on tape myself ?". People started to buy more and more original recorded tapes and less and less vinyl.
So to me, it's somehow the same here : the CD is taking the place of the vinyl record, and the MP3 files (for MP3 players) is taking the place of the audio tape.

Like Timo Tolkki said (i think it was him ?), CDs will probably disapear in few years. "MP3" files will remain. When you think of it, more and more people buy MP3 player. Somehow, why would they pay 20€ for one album as a CD, when they can buy it directly as MP3 for 10€ ?
I guess someday you'll be able to download (and pay !) not only for audio tracks to listen to your portative player device, but also for the lyrics, booklet to be displayed on this player, plus some bonus video material. This is the future

[MaFiaBoY]

I guess someday you'll be able to download (and pay !) not only for audio tracks to listen to your portative player device, but also for the lyrics, booklet to be displayed on this player, plus some bonus video material. This is the future

Yeah, you'll heve to buy them separately. Then the music will be 10€, the case 1€, the booklet 3€, the videos 6€ and so on... In the end it will be more expensive than the CD is nowadays

[cliff]

Yeah, you'll heve to buy them separately. Then the music will be 10€, the case 1€, the booklet 3€, the videos 6€ and so on... In the end it will be more expensive than the CD is nowadays

no no, u didn't get my point.
I mean that probably someday, when you'll buy a album online, then for the same price, you'll get the album + the cover / artwork + the booklet + the lyrics + videos + interviews and keep all those things directly on your player.
If the music industry still wants people to pay for albums, they have to offer more services, and exclusive ones, for the same price

[gerr]

to buy a CDbox with a cd inside with 10 songs with the same quality that you have in the computer, and with a mini book with the lyrics and some photos. The box and the cd can be copied for just 2 euros, so you pay 13 euros for a minibook... .

You got it wrong.
one CD is MUCH more than just one booklet, one CD, and one CD case. It's months of writing, composition, conception, recording, mixing, producing, and a HUGE amount of money as a investissement.
Of course people can save lot of money with downloading, but think of it : if everyone would do that and never buy any CD (or even, like your case, just one CD every year), then you can expect the number of albums & bands to go down really fast.

Downloading is okay, if you want to listen to one album and be sure that you won't be disapointed by buying it, but it's a easy and selfish solution if you consider it like a treasure chest and get everything from it.

And I think 15€ is not a lot of money, if you really like the album.
(plus the fact that the prices of CDs in big musicstore are rather 19€ / 23€)
How many times do you listen one album ?
Some people spend 6€ for one pack of cigarettes that they waste in one day (and at the end it had brought nothing to them).
Some people can spend 60€ every week-end to parties and drinking.
Some people can spend 10€ to go and watch a movie in a theater.
Do you still think 15€ for one CD is a lot ? Sorry, but if you really like music and respect it as a art, you don't steal it.

When I said that, I wasnt talking about me, of course I prefer buying the cd if I like it, I was talking about what people generally think, if you dont wach whats behind the album, you only see a booklet that costs 13 euros, of course on this 13 euros is not only the cost of the booklet there is a work... (I hope you understand me my english its fukin bad hehehee) well but when someone goes to buy a cd and it doesnt care about whats behind that album, he only sees a booklet for 13 euros, and of course, he doenst buy it, he downloads it, I think that this is a matter of marketting and labels should do something to atract people for buying a cd

[MaFiaBoY]

to buy a CDbox with a cd inside with 10 songs with the same quality that you have in the computer, and with a mini book with the lyrics and some photos. The box and the cd can be copied for just 2 euros, so you pay 13 euros for a minibook... .

You got it wrong.
one CD is MUCH more than just one booklet, one CD, and one CD case. It's months of writing, composition, conception, recording, mixing, producing, and a HUGE amount of money as a investissement.
Of course people can save lot of money with downloading, but think of it : if everyone would do that and never buy any CD (or even, like your case, just one CD every year), then you can expect the number of albums & bands to go down really fast.

Downloading is okay, if you want to listen to one album and be sure that you won't be disapointed by buying it, but it's a easy and selfish solution if you consider it like a treasure chest and get everything from it.

And I think 15€ is not a lot of money, if you really like the album.
(plus the fact that the prices of CDs in big musicstore are rather 19€ / 23€)
How many times do you listen one album ?
Some people spend 6€ for one pack of cigarettes that they waste in one day (and at the end it had brought nothing to them).
Some people can spend 60€ every week-end to parties and drinking.
Some people can spend 10€ to go and watch a movie in a theater.
Do you still think 15€ for one CD is a lot ? Sorry, but if you really like music and respect it as a art, you don't steal it.

When I said that, I wasnt talking about me, of course I prefer buying the cd if I like it, I was talking about what people generally think, if you dont wach whats behind the album, you only see a booklet that costs 13 euros, of course on this 13 euros is not only the cost of the booklet there is a work... (I hope you understand me my english its fukin bad hehehee) well but when someone goes to buy a cd and it doesnt care about whats behind that album, he only sees a booklet for 13 euros, and of course, he doenst buy it, he downloads it, I think that this is a matter of marketting and labels should do something to atract people for buying a cd

Absolutely right. Most people seem to think that an album is made by clapping your hands or something like that...

[Stratofanius]

Some bad things:

- There are not very many fasts songs in new albums (Elements pt.1 and 2)
- Too much double bass
- More Johansson and Kotipelto; there are good composers too!
- Well, the ballads are VERY GOOD, but they are too many in Strato's albums! In Destiny, there are FOUR ballads in the album (4000 Rainy Nights, Years Go By, Venus in the Morning and Dream with Me). I hope new beutiful ballads, but TWO ballads by album is the best way.

[MaFiaBoY]

Some bad things:

- There are not very many fasts songs in new albums (Elements pt.1 and 2)
- Too much double bass
- More Johansson and Kotipelto; there are good composers too!
- Well, the ballads are VERY GOOD, but they are too many in Strato's albums! In Destiny, there are FOUR ballads in the album (4000 Rainy Nights, Years Go By, Venus in the Morning and Dream with Me). I hope new beutiful ballads, but TWO ballads by album is the best way.

1) Find Your Own Voice, some parts in Fantasia, Learning To Fly, Stratofortress, some parts in Elements, I'm Still Alive and Ride Like The Wind. I think this is enough :/

2) Agreed

3) Agreed too, I'm not quite fond of Koti-composed songs though. Hail, The Curtais Are Falling, Why Are We Here & Run Away

4) I don't think there are too much ballads, TT composes great ones and Koti's voice fits perfectly for that, so that doesn't bother me.

[Stratofanius]

Some bad things:

- There are not very many fasts songs in new albums (Elements pt.1 and 2)
- Too much double bass
- More Johansson and Kotipelto; there are good composers too!
- Well, the ballads are VERY GOOD, but they are too many in Strato's albums! In Destiny, there are FOUR ballads in the album (4000 Rainy Nights, Years Go By, Venus in the Morning and Dream with Me). I hope new beutiful ballads, but TWO ballads by album is the best way.

1) Find Your Own Voice, some parts in Fantasia, Learning To Fly, Stratofortress, some parts in Elements, I'm Still Alive and Ride Like The Wind. I think this is enough :/

2) Agreed

3) Agreed too, I'm not quite fond of Koti-composed songs though. Hail, The Curtais Are Falling, Why Are We Here & Run Away

4) I don't think there are too much ballads, TT composes great ones and Koti's voice fits perfectly for that, so that doesn't bother me.

Well, Elements pt.2 has FOUR fast songs: IWTMOS, I'm Still Alive, (terrible) Know the Difference and Dreamweaver. But, to be honest, only I'm Still Alive is "ultra-fast". For example, in Visions, there are Black Diamond, Forever Free, Legions and Visions, wich are ALL very fast songs. And Infite - there are so many fast...


And the BALLADS thing, MaFiaBoY, you said that Stratoballads are great, I agree 100%. But I mean that to be POWERMETAL-ALBUMS, three or four ballads are too much by album! Two is maximum. Of course, "slow" songs like Eternity and Night Time Eclipse are nice.

But - I love Stratoballads. And I don't know what the fuck I'm telling...

[Equinox]

Well, this "copy protection" can easily be broken but yeah, it's very annoying. If you have an album with it and want to make mp3s tu put on your iPod, no way. So basically you payed 15€ for an album you can't listen to whenever you want..

For that's why there is a program callled MusicMatch Jukebox.

[Beast_Pete]

(1682+15)

What about recording it from a Hifi to HDD...?

[Asamandra]

-too high singing melody, sometimes Koti is not able to catch these high notes live and a lower voice could sound... hmmmmm... restful for the ears

I totally agree at first it was very hard to get used to it

[Aresius]

Some bad things:

- There are not very many fasts songs in new albums (Elements pt.1 and 2)
- Too much double bass
- More Johansson and Kotipelto; there are good composers too!
- Well, the ballads are VERY GOOD, but they are too many in Strato's albums! In Destiny, there are FOUR ballads in the album (4000 Rainy Nights, Years Go By, Venus in the Morning and Dream with Me). I hope new beutiful ballads, but TWO ballads by album is the best way.

1) Find Your Own Voice, some parts in Fantasia, Learning To Fly, Stratofortress, some parts in Elements, I'm Still Alive and Ride Like The Wind. I think this is enough :/

2) Agreed

3) Agreed too, I'm not quite fond of Koti-composed songs though. Hail, The Curtais Are Falling, Why Are We Here & Run Away

4) I don't think there are too much ballads, TT composes great ones and Koti's voice fits perfectly for that, so that doesn't bother me.

Well, Elements pt.2 has FOUR fast songs: IWTMOS, I'm Still Alive, (terrible) Know the Difference and Dreamweaver. But, to be honest, only I'm Still Alive is "ultra-fast". For example, in Visions, there are Black Diamond, Forever Free, Legions and Visions, wich are ALL very fast songs. And Infite - there are so many fast...


And the BALLADS thing, MaFiaBoY, you said that Stratoballads are great, I agree 100%. But I mean that to be POWERMETAL-ALBUMS, three or four ballads are too much by album! Two is maximum. Of course, "slow" songs like Eternity and Night Time Eclipse are nice.

But - I love Stratoballads. And I don't know what the fuck I'm telling...

I dont care if a song is ballad or not i thing that that is why i love so much stratovarius just because they dont make the usual power metal song.. they make like this neo clasical power metal with songs musically great! so basically i see it the songs are great musically not if they are fast or slow

[IceBreaker]

And the BALLADS thing, MaFiaBoY, you said that Stratoballads are great, I agree 100%. But I mean that to be POWERMETAL-ALBUMS, three or four ballads are too much by album! Two is maximum. Of course, "slow" songs like Eternity and Night Time Eclipse are nice.

In my humble opinion, also Strato´s ballads have the special "power" in them and it´s not so easy to compare them to normal sounding ballads. Except Forever and Neon Light Child. They just have something their own.

When thinking how much ballads should be on a good power album or sth, I just can say that really normally two are the best, but if they suit very well with the other stuff, then it can contain even four or five ballads or slower songs. It works good on Destiny, though IMHO I consider Destiny as the worst Strato with Kotipelto on vocals -album, but also for instance a bad example for a metal album with too many ballads or ballad-looking songs is Sonata´s Winterheart´s Guild. On that album I really would have liked to hear more faster songs like they did earlier.

[Stratofanius]

Ok. Let's imagine that there are 9 tracks at album. Then there are 5 ballads/slow songs. And 2 fast songs and 2 "medium-speed" songs. Is that powermetal? Half of album's tracks are sloooooooow... of course, that dosen't matter, if those tracks are good, but if they are tracks like Fantasia and Papillon (8-10 minutes, I HATE IT! TOO LONG TRACKS!), that isn't so cool.

And the another things - why Strato put FAST tracks to bonus, like Ride like the Wind. In Elements pt.2, song like... like... Liberty (I still hate it) is much better bonus track, because Stratovarius needs more power...


But anyway, good work from Stratovarius.

PS: This is my 50th post...

[MaFiaBoY]

8 minutes is long ? Well I'm more a prog guy so "long" for me means 20 mins and more, but anyway long songs are generally my favourites I wish Strato could make some 20 minutes epic, that would be awesome for sure !

Well, this "copy protection" can easily be broken but yeah, it's very annoying. If you have an album with it and want to make mp3s tu put on your iPod, no way. So basically you payed 15€ for an album you can't listen to whenever you want..

I'm more "old skool" than that. I take a pen end make a little mark on the CD itself, that works pretty well

[cliff]

Well, this "copy protection" can easily be broken but yeah, it's very annoying. If you have an album with it and want to make mp3s tu put on your iPod, no way. So basically you payed 15€ for an album you can't listen to whenever you want..

For that's why there is a program callled MusicMatch Jukebox.

MMJ is a great program but new version by new version, it is tended to become slower and slower, because of all those online radios + downloading features that are possible only for USA residents.
But you're right, the new versions of MMJ can do the job (just like some ripping software like iTunes or Dbpower AMP - they have something called "error correction" if I rem right)... except for the most recent Copy protection, for which neither software, neither ink pen, neither adhesive paper seem to work (at least it was the case the last time I tried to rip a copy protected CD that I bought last winter).
I say it again : copy protections suck big time.