Learning keyboard without lessons

[Mattovarius]

Ok, I'm interested in learning keyboard. I took piano lessons for a short while (a couple of months) and decided that just wasn't working for me. I don't want to be a pianist, I want to be a keyboard player. My interests are in players like Jens Johansson, Mikko Harkin, Janne Warman, and Tuomas from Nightwish. One reason I stopped the piano lessons is I have poor eyesight, that makes sightreading somewhat difficult for me. I DO want to be able to read and write standard musical notation(I'm working on that already) but to play as I read just isn't gonna happen. Anyway, I need a way to learn proper fingerings and all the other important things for playing the keyboard. Could someone recommend a book or something to help me do this on my own?

[MaFiaBoY]

I DO want to be able to read and write standard musical notation(I'm working on that already) but to play as I read just isn't gonna happen.

Never say never dude I'm no keyboardist, but the key is just the same everywhere : PRACTICE, practice and practice Keyboardists here might help better than me but this is the main thing to do, nothing is impossible if you practice hard enough.

[NeonVomit]

Do you think people just wake up one morning and are able to sight-read (play while reading the music) just like that? It takes a lot, A LOT, of practise. It's an amazingly useful skill to have, and all the hours I spent trying to get it down were worth it when I came to University to study music.

You never get anything for nothing, especially in music. Since you're taking the difficult route, (i.e. self taught) you'll need even more practise and discipline.

Good luck!

[khamael]

yeah...practice, practice and practice again...is surely a good thing. but you have to practice on some basis...practice is not all...in a first moment.(after that you have reached a certain level practice is a lot)

Surely you could buy some propedeutic books...to learn basics of keyplaying. But a great threat is behind the corner, without a guide in the first moments of your "learning period", some mistakes (mostly of the position, movement and articulation of your fingers, wirsts, harms and shoulders) could be chronicle. And it's really really HARD to cure( i have a 12 years classical training in piano and i can assure you that also with a teacher i encountered some position problems, especially of the 5th finger...and it taken a lot to correct this wrong habit).

So my advice is to search for a keyboard teacher (i cant say piano because you said to not be interested in this, anyway classical is a really good starting basic, especially for speed, hard passages,rythm changes, skills in general...), and speak with him of what kind of music you want to play...i'm sure he will arrange personalized lessons, built especially for your purposes.

For me a teacher is always recommended in the first period of a musical instrument approach, sure it's a little freeless and you have to do what he says, working with conciousness...but you will have to work less after...

At least i say that because it worked fine for me...
Hope i helped you a little.

[Mattovarius]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. Like I said, one reason I quit my piano lessons was due to my eyesight. It makes it rather difficult for me to read the music as I play, I know it takes years to become a good sight reader but with my eyesight I don't think its practical(and no, glasses or surgery can't correct my vision unfortunately.) Also I think its a bit too late to start classical piano lessons at 18 years old. I'm just a bit frustrated, I mean keyboard and piano are very different I think and I felt I was wasting my time because some of the things a piano teacher will teach me I will probably never use. I took piano lessons for 2 or 3 months and every time she taught me something I did it right, she never corrected me anyway so I was like "If all she's going to do is tell me to practice from a book I can do that myself".

[Lord Aesgareth]

Actually I do play keys but I took piano lessons for quite a while and that is the basis of what I can do now. Without these lessons I'm sure I could not play what I can play (? ) Moreover taking lessons (with a qualified teacher I mean, the girl you had does not seem that competent ) will teach you not only how to put your fingers in the right way, your position etc as khamael pointed out, but also the method to overcome the difficulties that are often personnal methods and that you won't find in books (or that I did not find ). And don't worry, 18 is not too late to begin ! OK it'd have been better if you had started at 10, but it would have been even better if you had started at 5 and so forth... So as you said don't waste your time, choose (and ask for help here to someone you know) a good teacher who will set you on track and then you can practice hard and efficientely.
Practice, just as talent, is nothing without discpline and rigor.

Good luck ! dont give up, playing your favorite music is wonderful, it's worth some efforts !

[Jaakko]

"18 is not too late to begin", hell yeah, nobody can disagree, Michael Romeo is one of the greats up there today and he did start at about 18 year old, with guitar though but what's the difference of keyboards and guitar today? Electric effetcs? Alright, no difference, indeed, not too late to start! You can fuckin make it if you have ORIGINAL ideas, even if you start technical rehearse at the age of 45

[NeonVomit]

I agree, learning classical piano is a huge help, especially if youre playing keyboard but also if you play any instrument. I can play some piano myself, and it's very handy.

And anyway, you can't be a well-rounded musician if you dont learn about all kinds of music, classical, jazz, different kinds of ethnic music, and of course rock and all its subcategories.

[Mattovarius]

Hmmm, I was just reading an interview with Jens where he said he is self-taught. Maybe there is hope....

[Piiuska]

If u want to play a keyboard, it's nice to start by classical piano. Mattovarius, u said u've taken piano lessons for couple of months. My god, be patient and practice, u can't do it in another way. It doens't happen in two weeks, not in two months.. Myself, I've taken piano lessons for 7 years! And I can say, it takes a long time to understand those stuffs and learn them.. If u say "i will never be able to do it", the problem is just only in You. Trust yourself, u will learn if u practice Oh, and about lessons. It's much better to start with them!! And I'm almost sure that u learn quicker in the lessons than if u try to do everything alone.
Let's keep on practicing, right?

And I agree with u guys, it's never too late to start praciting/playing.

[khamael]

Hmmm, I was just reading an interview with Jens where he said he is self-taught. Maybe there is hope....

Hmmmm...

Here something i find on his website:

Code: Select all

" it was my mother that kind of made me start playing, I wasn't really into it at all at the time. She made both me and my brother Anders go. At the time, we realized that the other students spent ten times as much time on practicing at home...we didn't really practice at all, perhaps ten-twenty minutes before meeting up with the teacher again. Despite this, we were the best students in the group! After about two years (or — as soon as we were big enough to argue properly with our mother) we quit the piano lessons. So I'm not really classically trained at all, I'm afraid. None of us played at all for a while, but then when I was in 8th grade my brother got a drum kit, and we decided to start a band with a friend that played guitar. I was already familiar with keyboard technique from the piano lessons, so it felt natural for me to play organ. (Luckily I didn't start playing bass.) I never really listened to baroque or classical music until I was about 14, before that I listened mainly to hard rock like Deep Purple and Rainbow."

He made at least 2 years of studies with a teacher, but you have the eg that he is very gifted...
It's really rare...


btw...here the link of the interviews:
http://www.panix.com/~jens/interviews.par

enjoy.

[iron_thunder]

get reading glasses! seriously, it will strain your eyes

ok being self-taught is all well and good but it might be a good idea to take lessons, even occasionally, to help you work on technique. it's boring as hell, but it will help immensely and will help prevent bad habits that are hard to break.

[shadowedaethyr]

Hey, I know EXACTLY how you feel.

I learned clarinet when I was 12 years old, but I finally got talked into piano lessons at 20. I have very poor vision, too, and cannot be corrected with glasses or surgery.

I really can relate to you. Reading more than one staff is extremely complicated for people with poor vision. When I played concert band music, I had it enlarged. In piano, I did the same thing, but sometimes it compromises the look of the notes. My suggestion - if you were taught this way - is to put numbers under the notes that correspond to your fingers. They really helped spell things out for me.

And lastly, I just took Piano I and I'll be put in Piano III by spring since I've read music before. But, I need to practice a whole semester's worth this summer. I have to admit I have done VERY poorly. I really need to motivate myself to play more. Maybe we can both motivate each other to practice. I know it's very frustrating - especially with a disability - but maybe we can help each other out. =)

I sincerely hope I helped. Like everyone else has said, you're never too old to learn! You're just expecting a lot out of yourself as a beginner (believe me, we all do this!). It will be alright. If you were determined enough to take the step in taking lessons, it will all fall into place for you.

P.S. I LOVE your signature. =)

- M

[Miguel_Ricardo]

my advice is to start training your ears more than your fingers, mix up things, try to play songs hearing them, not reading them...
I play since I was 6 by myself, trying to play ninja turtles theme, mario bros, tetris, and all those songs I listened at that time
Other thing you could do (compared to what I did) is to hang out with other people who plays keyboards, each and every one of them have a new tip .
Other tip is to try playing blues... they're really addictive when you're learning to play keyboards (you can forget reading) pure improvisation, yu can discover a lot of new things that can help you later


I did all that and I can say that I play pretty well the keys, but I realize that I play way different as other keys players that took lessons , I mean with the fingering of both hands, I'm not better or worse but different...
I took lessons like 6 months with Guillermo D'Medio (Ariadna Project) and I did MAJOR progress, it helps a lot to have a KEYBOARDS teacher nor a piano (I did go to classical conservatory for 2 months and I got sick of it...)
The bad thing is that I can poorly read, I keep it faithfull to my ears, that are not 100% accurate sometimes

in conclusion
* Ear training (to understand when you're listening a major, minor , penthatonic scale etc)
* Improvising (Blues, or make some chord progression and improvise with it)
* Ask for tips to other keyboard players
* When you have a technical difficulties (PG ehem ehem ) go to a teacher, a keyboards one, rather than making a mistake and carry it for the rest of your life.
* PLAY everyday, make it an addiction


do you have a keyboard? a piano?

[Aresius]

Well ... sorry about this but:

If you want to learn keyboards/ piano.. just take lessons.
IF you are intresting in composing your stuff.. tka elessons with a good teachers taht teachs you everything ( playing, music theory, reading ..etc ) or just go a music school.

try to play a lot with the metronome but this will be usless if you dont know the tempo and metric stuff.

( sorry for my english )

PD:
Aguante ariadna loco!

[Just a Vampire]

I think that's very useful to have a Keyboard teacher, specially about the position of the fingers, some tips, and that stuff. Piano lessons can be useful, to make chords, some fingering,etc. But I believe that's better if you take some lessons with a good keyboard teacher. I play some keyboards, and I do like Jens, sometimes I study 10-20 minutes before to meet the teacher (But I'm not as gifted as Jens is, so I guess I'm not very good); so I reccomend to you to study a lot, sometimes a lot of practice can make you better than a gifted person that doesn't work seriously. Sometimes, 1/2 hour can be good enough, but is better if you have more time than that to spend it with your keyboard.
About motivation: Think on Jens and those great keyboard players, that helps a lot; to me it does (and maybe I could get hired in a group the next year, so I have to spend all my vacations in the keyboard. I can't start now, 'cause I have exams and a lot of homeworks from the university and it doesn't let me some free time).
About the eyesigth: I also have poor sigth, but I use glasses. Anyway, sometime is hard to me to read the notes, especially when they're in additional lines. the only thing that you can do is to read slow when you're starting, and when you get familiar with the song you can play it faster. Also train your ear, it helps a lot, specially when you're poor sighted.
As Aresius said, use the metronome, if you play one thing and the rest of the band plays another, you'll be fired.
about to be self-taught, is good when you want to improvise something. sometimes, when you have a classical formation your mind becomes rigid and you can't improvise well 'cause you're thinking on a lot of things that stops you.
And Important: you MUST have a good keyboard, if you don't have one, get it now, but you really need to have a keyboard.
and, to be good, you need years of practice, not months, not days, not weeks. YEARS of patience and practice, if you can practice all the days, better.

BTW: a) does anybody knows how can I find a good keyboard teacher, I have one, but he's not as good as I need.
b) At least, at least, thanks to allmighty god, I have the Black Diamond partitures.

[Miguel_Ricardo]

I disagree in one thing.. I don't think its really necessary to have a god keyboard... it's like, with a good keyboard .. it plays by itself!,to try to make a cheap keyboard sound cool, that'll make you feel good!

Obviously for gigs and recording a good one, but not necessary on training... anyways that's me

[MikesiteX]

i dunno man, the sounds really do make a diff in your playing...if someone knows how to make a great lead sound his soloing will probably improve and sound cleaner, than just taking a piano or stings sound and trying to learn solos, at least in my opinion anyway

[Miguel_Ricardo]

good point with the solos, didn't count that

[Just a Vampire]

sure. A great solo with a bad sound...
Is not a "life-or-death" matter to have a good keyboard, but sometimes it helps.

[metalman]

I don't know much about keyboard playing but this might be useful
http://ts.searching.com/torrent/453228/ ... rd_Lessons

[Arctik]

I'm self-taught (12 years, starting at 7yrs), but I also taught myself to read notation. A few months ago I went through a few lessons with a classical teacher, picked up a few techniques, but otherwise left because I had little to learn from him.
However, stay away from pattern-based training methods. Sure, they can help you build up speed, but you can lose a lot in the atmosphere of your musical ear if you train yourself to those sorts of methods.