The US Supreme Court May Take a Giant Step Backward :(

[browneyedgirl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9874588

Bush has nominated Samuel Alito to the vacant Justice seat.
Described as being religiously ultra-conservative, Alito is Anti-abortion, anti-affirmative action, anti-equal rights, pro-gun&pro-traditional family.
Alito won Kudos/high-fives from extreme rightwingers like Pat Robertson&others, but severe criticism from "soft" Republicans, and most Democrats in the Congress. Who have said if Alito is chosen as the Justice, this man's policies/votes on issues would surely divide the Nation even more serverely along party lines brcause of his Hardline right-wing views&beliefs.
The policies&ultimately, America itself would take a giant Step--if not, Leap--backward not only politically, but socially as well!

[NordicStorm]

You can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye if this guy is confirmed. And when Roe v. Wade is overturned, every state is free to criminalize abortion, if they so chose (the likelihood being quite a few of them will). Which would kinda' suck if you needed an abortion and you'd have to travel five states over to get one.
He would probably also be a vote in favour of continuing torture and abuse of prisoners-of-war - in whatever relevant cases may be heard before the Supreme Court - that Cheney and his ilk are backing, Geneva convention be damned. The sad part being that this nominee is a step up from his last nominee, Bush's cleaning lady.
Of course, given Bush's harsh decline in popularity recently and given that a majority of Americans actually are pro-choice, at least to a certain extent, you would think the opposition party wouldn't have much trouble derailing this appointment. Unfortunately, the opposition party is the Democratic party.

And before someone starts yapping about how bad abortion is...yeah, I agree. I'm essentially pro-life. But things aren't black and white. There are circumstances when you don't have much of a choice.

[browneyedgirl]

Look at the bright side--maybe Congress will have the common sense to not approve this Extremist!

Oh, skip it.

http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/30 ... aphic1.swf

[Neorave]

Look at the bright side--maybe Congress will have the common sense to not approve this Extremist!

Great, now most of my friends are gonna be pullin' this shit now...this Christian Extremist crap. Yes, I know, you're a Christian, why the crap are you sounding like you are for abortion? BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES IN JESUS, DUMBASS.

(to point out, this is from a somewhat Christian P.O.V.)

For one, I don't like abortion, period. However, I'm not gonna yell at some 16 year old prep girl from Los Angeles high, just because she got knocked up by some 21 year old college dropout. If they knew better (in the Christian P.O.V.) they would've thought and prayed over it, instead of just saying "hey, woman, go have that thing killed in your stomach...it aint even alive yet!" Yeah, and neither is that mass of wasted space you call a brain. This is the thing: many people do not either believe in Christ, or they do but think that God won't get mad at them. Then we get the terrorist Christians in, and they start regurgitating Bible verses that may have to do with that scenario, or just one word in there that involves the scenario, and everything else doesn't make sense.

When I talk to someone about Christianity, I don't tell them that "if you don't do this or this or that, God will hate you and you will die!" What I do is that I give them a little bit of info, just enough to get that little piece of massive head space ticking, then if they want to know more, they ask me questions, and I do my best to answer them. Pretty much I give them a choice, whether you want to learn about Jesus and understand to accept Him in your life, or go back to whatever you were doing and see how you will turn out. In any case, I will still be there to help them. Extremist just jam the Gospel down people's throats, which is IMO not the best way to go. People get confused, they misinterpret things, and the result is that people start saying crap about on another. This is pretty much how it has been going for the past hundreds of years.

[Stealth]

I give them a choice, whether you want to learn about Jesus and understand to accept Him in your life, or go back to whatever you were doing and see how you will turn out.

That's kind of assuming that you will turn out badly if you don't accept Jesus. I've never believed in Jesus and I'm doing ok.

I'm in favour of abortion and I think that religions are the cancer of humanity.

[Neorave]

That's kind of assuming that you will turn out badly if you don't accept Jesus. I've never believed in Jesus and I'm doing ok.

I'm in favour of abortion and I think that religions are the cancer of humanity.

You know, that's fine. I'm not gonna force you to believe in Jesus (though I may encourage you, but I'm lazy right now ). If you feel that way, then I'm not gonna force that against you. Yeah, it does seem odd, but I feel that this works a lot better than being a goddamn extremist.

[Miguel_Ricardo]

The things goes wrong when they use violence (I mean both extremes), I have a special theory about religions (a very messed up one) I beleive everyone shoul resect the other without harming each other

About abortion, we shouldn't generalize, I can't be a pro abortion or anti abortion, it depends on every situation... the bad things is that we'll never agree each others ideas....


what a messed up world

[NeonVomit]

One thing they forget all the time. America is MEANT to be a free country. So, if someone is Jewish (who don't seem to have any qualms about abortion, correct me if I'm wrong) or someone is indeed atheist, then they won't care what God thinks about abortion, because they don't even believe there IS a god!

America is not a Christian country. It's a country where one is allowed to believe whatever one chooses. That is exactly what the founding fathers intended, was it not? And no, the founding fathers were not extreme Christians. Thomas Jefferson for example was a vocal atheist. The 'In God We Trust' bit of the Constitution was I believe added during the 1950's at the hight of McCarthyism.

Yes, I am a Christian. I believe in God.

I however also believe in free will, and the right for anyone to choose what to do in their life. The state and government imposing beliefs on people who exercise their right to not believe is simply wrong and against the whole American idea.

[stratoplayer]

IF they choose this guy and IF he actually excerts some influence then the US is gonna be properly screwed IMO...

[browneyedgirl]

Another Scary Tidbit: The Judge in Alabama who fought to keep the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse(on a concrete slab, or something)is going to run for Governor of our nice little state! : Another excuse for Alabama to be ridiculed by hateful people&Jay Leno.
I think Nordic knows the Judge I am referring to--I had a topic here about that.
Even in this day&time the USA is full of Extremists of all sorts&the woods are full of cuckoos!

[NordicStorm]

Jefferson was perhaps not Christian, but he wasn't atheist. He was a Deist, as were several of the founding fathers.
"Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, you can't change the wording of the Constitution other than through amending it (the Constitution still references free and non-free persons, as an example).

Besides, these people in charge are hardly particularly good Christians. Bush, for example, had all the opportunities in the world to grant clemency to death row inmates during his tenure as governor of Texas, and he didn't. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it does say "Thou shalt not kill" in the Bible, not "Though shalt not kill. Unless they're scumbags."

As for Roy Moore, the judge in Alabama, it's unclear at this point whether he can defeat the sitting (Republican) governor in the primary, although if he does, he'll probably win the general elections.

And as for Alito...he'll be confirmed. There aren't enough moderate Republicans who dare voting against him solely on abortion, and quite a few Democrats are pro-life and unlikely to vote against him on that ground as well.

[htcdude]

Is all this going to affect my life?

[browneyedgirl]

Is all this going to affect my life?

Probably not&you should be thankful! Unless leaders in other countries get these Extremist notions in their head, too, as a result. However, the USAs policies are not held in the highest regard at the moment, so I doubt if a "follow That Leader" mindset would occur!

Nordic always brings good news&bad news---at least its balanced!

[htcdude]

Oh good

[NeonVomit]

Jefferson was perhaps not Christian, but he wasn't atheist. He was a Deist, as were several of the founding fathers.
"Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, you can't change the wording of the Constitution other than through amending it (the Constitution still references free and non-free persons, as an example).

Besides, these people in charge are hardly particularly good Christians. Bush, for example, had all the opportunities in the world to grant clemency to death row inmates during his tenure as governor of Texas, and he didn't. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it does say "Thou shalt not kill" in the Bible, not "Though shalt not kill. Unless they're scumbags."

As for Roy Moore, the judge in Alabama, it's unclear at this point whether he can defeat the sitting (Republican) governor in the primary, although if he does, he'll probably win the general elections.

And as for Alito...he'll be confirmed. There aren't enough moderate Republicans who dare voting against him solely on abortion, and quite a few Democrats are pro-life and unlikely to vote against him on that ground as well.

Hmm thanks for clarifying that. I knew the 'Under God' bit was added somewhere, I wasn't sure where. And what is the difference between a deist and a Christian?

But yeah, the people in charge are hardly good Christians.

[NordicStorm]

Deism isn't an organised religion as Christianity is; I would say the defining aspect of deism is the rejection of organised religion altogether.
A deist typically, but not necessarily, believes that although God created the world, he (or it rather) does not intervene in events that occur in the universe. In other words, no miracles and certainly no son of God.

[stratoplayer]

wow, i didn't know that one, thanks

[NeonVomit]

Thanks for the info Nordic.

[Just a Vampire]

I dont' care about US and polithics but:
I agree with the polithics about abortion. I disagree with the other stuff. The extreme right as it is by now is a consequence of terrorism but the roots of that movement came from a long time ago. anyway, is not the answer to get the world's peace, better, is the worst way to stop the world's proggression. It leads to war and destruction so...
Anyway, by now I care for the polithics in my country. even more I don't care of the polithics in any place of the world

[browneyedgirl]

This does not sound too good about Mr. Alito

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9904527/

I was hoping sometime in my lifetime Racial predjudice would end, but Hell, its still going on.

I am not black, but I have had some really close Black friends during the course of my life&I hate to see any kind of maltreatment to someone because of something they cannot help, or change. Everyone wants to be liked for themselves&people like Mr. Alito is not helping that.

[Neorave]

Samuel A. Alito, disagreed, writing that the hotel had merely committed "minor inconsistencies" in its rules for filling jobs and that it would be wrong to allow "disgruntled employees to impose the costs of trial on employers who, although they have not acted with the intent to discriminate, may have treated their employees unfairly."

Remind me what year this is, asshole. Great, not only are we gonna have Christian methodist crazy peoples, but it sounds like the Ku Klux Klan may be resurrected as well (with Alito as the leader).

[stratoplayer]

i can picture the entire supreme court and republican party in white robes with a burning cross in the background

[Miguel_Ricardo]

I just realized there's no black person here (that I know)

[Jester]

The crazy religious in this country aren't the Catholics, Methodists, Episcopals, Lutherans, or Presbyterians. 95% of the loud religious rhetoric comes from the Baptists and the Pentacostals. In many ways I feel these two groups have perverted Christianity in a way similar to how Muslim extremists have perverted Islam. They see God as a vengeful deity. They love to tell the rest of the world that "they are going to Hell". As a Catholic, I was always taught that God was forgiving. These people offend me as much as groups like the ACLU who wish to remove all vestiges of God from our society. The idea that the word "God" needs to be stricken from the pledge is garbage. In this country we are always trying to fix things that aren't broken, probably so certain people can keep getting free press, and keep getting rich. We don't need to fix the way religion exists in this country because a few people get a hair up their ass. It was just fine. That said, I get pissed when I see harsh religious literature stuffed under my windshield wiper. Thats having things shoved down your throat. Having a Christmas tree in a public area is not, and neither is "God" in the pledge.

The Left and the Right need to leave religion alone. Things were great until government officials, and activists of both stripes found a new way to divide us up as a country.

Just live your life. Let the Christians be Christians, Jews be Jews, Muslims be Muslims, Buddhists be Buddhists, Agnostics be agnostics, and athiests be athiests. Somehow, I have a feeling that we can all find common ground if the government, and other abrasive entities stop pitting us all against eachother. If you don't want to hear or see something, turn your head, turn the channel, switch the station, throw the piece of paper under your windshield wiper away, LOL!! It's that easy.


Jesse

[Just a Vampire]

Yeah, you can turn your head, but there are times in which you better look and do something about it. I agree with you about the religions, that things are determinative in the movements of some politicians and common people 'cause if you don't do anything you could be exploited or something worst....remember Hitler...

[Pikkusielu]

I just realized there's no black person here (that I know)

There is Sonata's wish who was flamed by Fifthea.

[NeonVomit]

These people offend me as much as groups like the ACLU who wish to remove all vestiges of God from our society. The idea that the word "God" needs to be stricken from the pledge is garbage.... Having a Christmas tree in a public area is not, and neither is "God" in the pledge.



The Left and the Right need to leave religion alone. Things were great until government officials, and activists of both stripes found a new way to divide us up as a country.



Just live your life. Let the Christians be Christians, Jews be Jews, Muslims be Muslims, Buddhists be Buddhists, Agnostics be agnostics, and athiests be athiests.
Jesse

You contradict yourself there. I think there should be total seperation of religion and state, purely because so many people believe in so many different things. How are Hindus for example supposed to accept that? Or an atheist?

Christmas, well whatever, Christmas has hardly anything to do with religion anymore, it's just a big commercial whore-fest.

[NordicStorm]

I wholeheartedly agree that politics and religion should be kept strictly separate. If you have religion in politics or politics in religion...well, you're bound to fuck up both. Examples abound (*coughgeorgedubyabushcough*).
The thing, though, about "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is that those two words weren't even there in the first place. It was added during Eisenhower's reign when you still were fighting godless communists. But yeah, if I happened to belong to a polytheistic religion or was an atheist, I would be inclined to consider the phrase "one nation under God" to be, perhaps, oh I don't know, promoting monotheism over other forms of beliefs. Perhaps I'd also be inclined to believe that sort of contradicts the Establishment clause. Might not be that big of a deal, but if you happen to have a separation of church and state, you might as well stick to it.

But to get back to the topic at hand, it would be very bad if Roe v. Wade was overturned. Very bad. Counter to what extreme right-wing Christian fanatics may think, people are hardly having abortions arbitrarily left and right just for the hell of it. Women typically have a very good reason for having an abortion.
You want to prevent abortions? Here's a novel idea. How about sex ed in schools and making contraceptives easily available? Lots of unwanted pregnancies and unneccessary abortions could be prevented that way.

[stratoplayer]

I wholeheartedly agree that politics and religion should be kept strictly separate. If you have religion in politics or politics in religion...well, you're bound to fuck up both. Examples abound (*coughgeorgedubyabushcough*).
The thing, though, about "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is that those two words weren't even there in the first place. It was added during Eisenhower's reign when you still were fighting godless communists. But yeah, if I happened to belong to a polytheistic religion or was an atheist, I would be inclined to consider the phrase "one nation under God" to be, perhaps, oh I don't know, promoting monotheism over other forms of beliefs. Perhaps I'd also be inclined to believe that sort of contradicts the Establishment clause. Might not be that big of a deal, but if you happen to have a separation of church and state, you might as well stick to it.

we learned that in mexico in 1850's and in the 1920's the first was when Benito Juarez (im sure youve heard the name) proclaimed that the church will have no intervention in policies, goberment schools and cant posses lands, then in the 1920s when Calles (a president who served one term and controlled the next three) started to apply those laws... its pratically a taboo to speak of religion and government in the same sentence here..

[browneyedgirl]

i can picture the entire supreme court and republican party in white robes with a burning cross in the background

That is a horrible thought even among us pure white folks because that was a really backward scarey time. I don't even want to think about it!