The Universe

[NeonVomit]

Let me just say something about the way I work. I do not instantly accept everything that is told to me, either religious or scientific. I always seek answers and proof for myself. I can see the second Law of Thermodynamics in action around me all the time, and I can make an exact example of it if I wish. I understand that the Earth is not the center of the universe, because I see the constellations of stars moving around it all the time.

I do not believe Noah built an ark and fit two of every species in it, nor that every species of canine (bears, raccoons, the biggest St. Bernard to the smallest Chihuaua) descended from two individuals on the ark. There is absolutely no proof for it, and it is genetically and physically impossible.

You simply refuse to believe something that goes against your belief, whereas I study it and come to a conclusion. I have studied all these things and where I'm at is my conclusion. I was very confused as a child because the stories of the bible simply did not add up with my science classes. This got more severe as I learnt more and more about how the world works. So, I researched both the bible and scientific sources, and came to the conclusion that I am at.

I personally think that blind, mindless faith is not as strong as faith which is built on reasoning, understanding, and reseach.

[zeebler]

I believe in God and Christ, but I also believe in logic and reason and science.

I personally think that blind, mindless faith is not as strong as faith which is built on reasoning, understanding, and reseach.

I believe not in The Bibble. I believe in The Оuter World (anc the sciense, because she carry out research on it, and explain it).

I personally think that:
The sciense can explain the mystic. And mystic can be base to reseach for the technological advance and the medicine (some "shamans" can operate with bare hands, bloodless... ).

[htcdude]

NV, can i just ask, if you believe in God and Christ, you believe the Bible too? Because this is the Word of God. How come you don't think he meant 7 days when he said that?

I believe the bible is not meant to be taken literally. Jesus himself told parables, and I think the bible is meant to be seen in the same way. I believe that God did not 'physically' create Adam and Eve in the way described in Genesis, but created their souls like that, that's what the book of Genesis was all about... the creation of the spiritual world and the awakening of spirituality in Man. I think God created the world exactly as scientists would tell you. He had no reason to rush. He could take his time to make it as perfect as it is (or was, before we messed it up). That could also explain the mystery of where Cain found a wife after murdering his brother, if logically there was only him and his brother borne by Eve. Look it up.

As for saying 7 days... in the original Hebrew, the words used for 'days' was actually something meaning 'period of time'. Indeterminate. The bible was altered dramatically by the translation from language to language, which is to be expected since man is imperfect. You can research this yourself.

I believe in God and Christ, but I also believe in logic and reason and science.

Genesis 5:4 - 'And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.'

It doesn't say when they were born, could've been born in the 130 years before Seth was born.


Likewise i may not have studied everything, but as i haev said i've looked into other things and there's no real proof for me that they can be true, the Bible is the only one that makes sense to me.

[browneyedgirl]

I believe alot of stuff in the Bible, too but I also think that God left some room for scientific theories(and mysteries), too!

[NeonVomit]

Genesis 5:4 - 'And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.'

It doesn't say when they were born, could've been born in the 130 years before Seth was born.


Likewise i may not have studied everything, but as i haev said i've looked into other things and there's no real proof for me that they can be true, the Bible is the only one that makes sense to me.

So if this is the case, then why is incest illegal today? If, since you claim so, the whole worlds population was created through people having kids with their brothers/sisters, then why is it such an outrage today? Would YOU have a child with your own sister? I sure as hell wouldn't.

(Let's for now forget the cases which take place and end up with mentally disabled and malformed children due to inbreeding)

[htcdude]

Genesis 5:4 - 'And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.'

It doesn't say when they were born, could've been born in the 130 years before Seth was born.


Likewise i may not have studied everything, but as i haev said i've looked into other things and there's no real proof for me that they can be true, the Bible is the only one that makes sense to me.

So if this is the case, then why is incest illegal today? If, since you claim so, the whole worlds population was created through people having kids with their brothers/sisters, then why is it such an outrage today? Would YOU have a child with your own sister? I sure as hell wouldn't.

(Let's for now forget the cases which take place and end up with mentally disabled and malformed children due to inbreeding)

The Law wasn't given then you should know that. Anyway we're all related.

[Beast_Pete]

I used to be a catholic myself... or at least namely. I studied at an ecumenical primary school, and I learnt a lot of things from the Bible. I don't believe in many things that were written in it. This book was written by old people for old people (I mean, people back then, not 60-80 years olds). There are many "mistakes" that we can clearly see now, so therefore the whole Bible and Christianity lost their authoritative. But I don't belive in the big boom. How could a World like this be created randomly? That is bullshit. Or at least I think so.

But I will never find the answer, and I don't care about it. We have to live and die, and make the best out of it for ouselves and for others.

[NeonVomit]

The Law wasn't given then you should know that. Anyway we're al
related.

If that's the case, then why are there so many different kinds of people? Caucasian, black, asian, Masai (average height 7 feet) Pygmys (average height 4.5 feet) if we're all related? It makes absolutely no biological sense.

[htcdude]

It's all to do with the pigments and melanins. Some people produce more pigments of one colour than of another, and they react in different ways to the light exposure from the sun. And then there's interracial marriages of course.

[NeonVomit]

It's all to do with the pigments and melanins. Some people produce more pigments of one colour than of another, and they react in different ways to the light exposure from the sun. And then there's interracial marriages of course.

Pigments, yes.. which develop slowly over time due to people living in different areas of the world, correct? That is exactly what evolution is. By claiming that, you claim that evolution took place.

How could interracial marriages make any difference if we're all related to one another in the first place?

[htcdude]

No not evolution, adaptation. The human didn't change into anything else, it's body didn't evolve, it adapted.

[NordicStorm]

No not evolution, adaptation. The human didn't change into anything else, it's body didn't evolve, it adapted.

And how exactly is that not evolution?

[NeonVomit]

No not evolution, adaptation. The human didn't change into anything else, it's body didn't evolve, it adapted.

Adaptation is exactly what evolution is. You need to re-check your terminology.

[htcdude]

Evolution is when a species changes to another species. Adaptation is when a species change itself to suit it's environment. The humans pigments reacted differently to the light, but it was still human, it didn't become a superhuman or become any stronger.

[NordicStorm]

Adaptation is when a species change itself to suit it's environment.

And at a certain point it has changed so much it can no longer be considered the same species as its ancestor.

[NeonVomit]

Seriously. Do some further reading from proper, unbiased scientific sources. I hate to say this, but you're just making yourself seem extremely ignorant.

[stratohawk]

I believe in God and Christ, but I also believe in logic and reason and science.

So do I. I would call myself a Christian, but I also think that the Genesis is more of a symbolic story. IMO the universe, the world, plants, animals, and mankind have developed. But they came to existence because of God's will and power. That's what I think. There's no scientist that can tell you what was before the Big Bang. It's impossible. Infinity is the border for science.

[Jaakko]

The Law wasn't given then you should know that. Anyway we're al
related.

If that's the case, then why are there so many different kinds of people? Caucasian, black, asian, Masai (average height 7 feet) Pygmys (average height 4.5 feet) if we're all related? It makes absolutely no biological sense.

It makes perfect sense. Species change as long as more inviduals are being born than there's room for. The fittest survive. Different conditions mean different things qualify for being "fit". Here in the north with not so much sun, vitamin D produced by the skin in sunlight is better produced by white skin. It's not like people turned black when they went to Africa, actually we all came from Africa in the first place, and we'd all still be black if there would be no advantage of having less pigment.

As far as the world goes, everything makes perfect sense. But when we start thinking beyond what we've seen, tested, experienced and adapted to, we're on thin ice. The Universe and the "universal" laws that are proven to apply, apply only in conditions we know. Red shift, gravity, matter, energy, radiation... Well that stuff mostly makes perfect sense and is all maths but it's certainly not enough to explain the Universe, as we can see by just looking at the amount of alternative theories. Speculating can be great fun, but to put my life on table as a bet defending my favourite theory... I'll fold.

[NeonVomit]

The Law wasn't given then you should know that. Anyway we're al
related.

If that's the case, then why are there so many different kinds of people? Caucasian, black, asian, Masai (average height 7 feet) Pygmys (average height 4.5 feet) if we're all related? It makes absolutely no biological sense.

It makes perfect sense. Species change as long as more inviduals are being born than there's room for. The fittest survive. Different conditions mean different things qualify for being "fit". Here in the north with not so much sun, vitamin D produced by the skin in sunlight is better produced by white skin. It's not like people turned black when they went to Africa, actually we all came from Africa in the first place, and we'd all still be black if there would be no advantage of having less pigment.

Yes, and that is evolution is it not? All people are not direct-line descendants of two individuals. THAT is what doesn't make sense.

[MaFiaBoY]

I don't believe in the Bible but it doesn't really matter. If you look furthr into it, the Bible and science do not contradict each other much. The Bible explains WHY the Universe was created, the science explains HOW.

[Jaakko]

Nature makes mistakes. It once created a huge molecule that was able to copy itself to some extent. That can be seen with an electron microscope, the duplication of DNA does not always happen 100% but some piece might get broken, some extra added here and there, some dropped off. We can see that happening all around us with simple fast-reproducing organisms like virii and bacteria. They evolve very fast, the fittest in this case being the ones to by accident and after maybe millions of malfunctioning individuals (mutations), getting immunity against antibiotics for example. Or the bird virus in the news today, how long has it been around? Did God create the virus to kill some innocent birds? Or is the possibility of such virus actually just the very reason why there was and is a possibility for us? According to evolution theory, that's exactly why. Otherwise the first DNA would still be the most complex molecule on this planet and that creature really wasn't even a proper virus, just some goo in a smelly sulphur pond.

Bacteria can make so many generations in one human lifetime that the change might look fast for us, and that's why it's hard to see the change in us, or any bigger and more complex and long-living species. But dogs were brought up. Selective breeding, man-made races. In my belief, and even in history books, not all born from two dogs in an ark, but in fact a common wolf. Same for horses, cows and other animals people have "separated" like the ocean separates the Galapagos islands. At some point the genomes get so different that the offspring of these two different races is unable to produce its own offspring, and that's how species are born.

[Stealth]

I don't believe in the Bible but it doesn't really matter. If you look furthr into it, the Bible and science do not contradict each other much. The Bible explains WHY the Universe was created, the science explains HOW.

The Bible is supposed to explain why AND how (after all, didn't God create the universe?). I don't think science concerns itself with the question "why". Anyways, you know I don't believe in the Bible at all, and I don't think there's a reason why the universe was created... There doesn't have to be a reason.

[MaFiaBoY]

I don't think we will ever know why. Maybe there is no reason but maybe the is one. And the God-"theory" is no more but no less absurd than any other.

[stratohawk]

I don't believe in the Bible but it doesn't really matter. If you look furthr into it, the Bible and science do not contradict each other much. The Bible explains WHY the Universe was created, the science explains HOW.

The Bible is supposed to explain why AND how (after all, didn't God create the universe?). I don't think science concerns itself with the question "why". Anyways, you know I don't believe in the Bible at all, and I don't think there's a reason why the universe was created... There doesn't have to be a reason.

Yes, but the Bible was written by men. And how could men know the way how God was creating the Earth? They searched for ways, for symbols to express these wonders.

[Miguel_Ricardo]

I don't believe in the Bible but it doesn't really matter. If you look furthr into it, the Bible and science do not contradict each other much. The Bible explains WHY the Universe was created, the science explains HOW.

Wise

[NeonVomit]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635182923,00.html

Why it is not possible to have kids with your own relatives.