Why do People Hate Jews and Christians?

[Shurik]

Of course people like miditek will correctly identify this as an example of Soviet propaganda. But on another level it's also a nice song about a crocodile celebrating his birthday even when it rains

There's no Soviet propaganda in this cartoon

[NeonVomit]

Of course people like miditek will correctly identify this as an example of Soviet propaganda. But on another level it's also a nice song about a crocodile celebrating his birthday even when it rains

There's no Soviet propaganda in this cartoon

That's what they want you to think!

[TimoTolkki]

Oh, Timo, that little crack about wiping your butt on the Bible was NOT my idea.

I know, it was my idea.

[NeonVomit]

Whether you realize it or not, you people who speak against Christanity are gulty of the same thing you accuse believers of: stereotyping&Judging without knowing!

I used to be a Christian myself. I do happen to possess knowledge on the subject.

The large portion of people who make up these Churches are some of the ost loving&caring people you would ever know. But, of couse, you problably never will know that fact because you have formed within yourself a mindset against the people who are members of these churches!

That's true, there's really good people there. And really horrible ones too. Pretty much like everywhere else in the world!

"Upon this Rock I shall build MY Church&the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." Jesus spoke that in the year before his death.
Do any of you "Anti-Christians" know what these words mean, REALLY mean? Apparently not. Oh, when believers say what they believe in, they are arrogant, huh? But, when you Christian bashers judge&bash the Christian religion thats not arrogant? Cute.

It's people refusing to accept other people's faith that is arrogant. Personally I have no problem with what anyone believes as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat or hurt anyone else. Want to believe in invisible floating hippos, or alien abuctions? Go right ahead! Just don't try to force it onto others.

Jesus created the Christian religion, NOT Constantine. After Jesus was killed, his disciples "took up the cross" and began the Christian ministry.

I think Timo meant the actual institution of the church as it exists today, not the original idea.

[TimoTolkki]

Jesus created the Christian religion, NOT Constantine. After Jesus was killed, his disciples "took up the cross" and began the Christian ministry.

The Bible says it is like this. Most gospels were written 80 years after the death of Christ. St Paul never met Jesus and he is widely been held responsible of "founding Christianity". But it was Constantine who put the whole thing together and officially declared Jesus divine, which I believe he wasn´t. Or he was, but so are we other too.

I think Timo meant the actual institution of the church as it exists today, not the original idea.

The "original idea" is not necessarily what Christ was teaching.

[miditek]

There is really no need to fear discussions or dialogue with Christians such as myself, since I am condemning no one, and in fact, pray for both yourself, Jens, as well as Tolkki, from time to time. imho- I believe that two of you are rather quite angry with God for reasons that (may be obvious to some), but are truly known only to themselves

This is really typical Christian arrogance. To pray for someone else because you think they need "salvation or whatever".

It's unfortunate that you've possibly mistaken some general (and collective) concern for arrogance. Have you ever considered for a moment of the possibility that some people may actually pray for things or events other than what you've just described?

I´m telling you now that I don´t want you to pray for me.

Of course, I'll gladly oblige your request in the future.

And my relationship with what you call "God" is strictly between me and her and has absolutely nothing to do with you. So keep also those opinions to yourself please.

Again, as you wish. However, I do hope that you don't think that I was deliberately trying to provoke you, as that is simply not the case.

I also cannot resist the temptation that the snake of paradise is now putting on me. But have a good laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVseBfMq_Dc

Please pass along a note to that crafty creature- the serpent, that he remains under the constant gaze and glare of that "Ghastly Luminosity" and the cartoons that he inspires are, as it were, merely additional fuel for the unquenchable fire that awaits him.

[JensJohansson]

Of course people like miditek will correctly identify this as an example of Soviet propaganda. But on another level it's also a nice song about a crocodile celebrating his birthday even when it rains

There's no Soviet propaganda in this cartoon

Next you'll be telling me that the popular children's cartoon Tom and Jerry is not an insidious brain-washing tool for indoctrination of youth, carefully crafted by reactionary forces within the US industrial-military-entertainment complex to impede the worker's class struggle toward the glorious socialist international!




fascist pigs

[miditek]

Of course people like miditek will correctly identify this as an example of Soviet propaganda. But on another level it's also a nice song about a crocodile celebrating his birthday even when it rains

There's no Soviet propaganda in this cartoon

Next you'll be telling me that the popular children's cartoon Tom and Jerry is not an insidious brain-washing tool for indoctrination of youth, carefully crafted by reactionary forces within the US industrial-military-entertainment complex to impede the worker's class struggle toward the glorious socialist international!




fascist pigs

I must say that the human (not the croc nor the teddy bear) characters in the Russian video did seem to be wearing the uniforms of the Young Pioneers,

ematusov.soe.udel.edu/classrooms/images/Soviet_4a.jpg

and appeared to be quite industrious little examples of the Proletariat.

And a strange factoid; did you know that former Ugandan dictator Idi Amin was a big fan of the Tom & Jerry Show?

Also, here's a textbook example of classic, Iranian antisemitic propaganda, so blatant that no one could dispute what it is.

youtube.com/watch?v=x12485fPT1w

[browneyedgirl]

Jesus created the Christian religion, NOT Constantine. After Jesus was killed, his disciples "took up the cross" and began the Christian ministry.

The Bible says it is like this. Most gospels were written 80 years after the death of Christ. St Paul never met Jesus and he is widely been held responsible of "founding Christianity". But it was Constantine who put the whole thing together and officially declared Jesus divine, which I believe he wasn´t. Or he was, but so are we other too.

WRONG! I don't know where you are getting your Biblical history, but the disciples(some of them) started writing down the gospels about 30AD, very shortly after Jesus death. but, you are right about Paul-- he&Jesus never met, except in a vision Paul had on the road to Damascus where Jesus appeared to him&Paul, a ruthless killer, was converted.
The disciples preached the gospels of Jesus' divinity as long as they all lived, up until John(who wrote Revelation)died, a very old man. By then, there were many, many preachers preaching the word of Jesus&God.

Jews did not have a monopoly on being persecuted-- during the early days of the Church Christians went through horrible torment at the hands of the Romans, and WAY before 80AD!

Oh, Timo, you don't have to lecture ME about the Incompatibility of Love and Fear. I know about it first hand. When my Ex-husband placed a loaded .45 caliber pistol to my head&cocked the trigger, my love for him died right there. I know love&fear do not mix! And what I and other believers feel for God is NOT Fear, but respect, reverance, trust, faith, and yes, love.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/print ... E_ID=50116
http://go.family.org/davinci/content/A000000061.cfm
http://www.aleloo.com/en/index.php/2006 ... on-fiction

When people believe in nothing, they will usually fall for anything!

[stratoplayer]

Ok... things are getting pretty personal right now...


This is why I am trying to avoid theological/spiritual debates online...

[TimoTolkki]

WRONG! I don't know where you are getting your Biblical history, but the disciples(some of them) started writing down the gospels about 30AD, very shortly after Jesus death. but, you are right about Paul-- he&Jesus never met, except in a vision Paul had on the road to Damascus where Jesus appeared to him&Paul, a ruthless killer, was converted.
The disciples preached the gospels of Jesus' divinity as long as they all lived, up until John(who wrote Revelation)died, a very old man. By then, there were many, many preachers preaching the word of Jesus&God.

Actually they were written like this:

The following are mostly the date ranges given by the late Raymond E. Brown, in his book An Introduction to the New Testament, as representing the general scholarly consensus in 1996 (for a fuller discussion of dating, please see the articles for each Gospel):

Mark: c. 68–73
Matthew: c. 70–100 as the majority view; some conservative scholars argue for a pre-70 date, particularly those that do not accept Mark as the first gospel written.
Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85
John: c. 90–110. Brown does not give a consensus view for John, but these are dates as propounded by C K Barrett, among others. The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition.

It is strange to wait for so long to write about such event that is claimed to have taken place. Why wait so long?

Oh, Timo, you don't have to lecture ME about the Incompatibility of Love and Fear. I know about it first hand. When my Ex-husband placed a loaded .45 caliber pistol to my head&cocked the trigger, my love for him died right there. I know love&fear do not mix! And what I and other believers feel for God is NOT Fear, but respect, reverance, trust, faith, and yes, love.

That´s an awful thing to do. I´m sorry to hear that.
I was pointing out the well known paradox that is in the bible that
you must fear God.

[TimoTolkki]

Ok... things are getting pretty personal right now...


This is why I am trying to avoid theological/spiritual debates online...

I am in the opinion that Christianity in particular is a very dangerous religion and since it´s the biggest, about 2,1 billion followers, it is my mission to go an unbaptize them:) to a more merciful Godview and Universe. I am always very polite in my religious views, but many Christians aren´t. You are quickly condemned as a viper or whatever biblical preprogrammed analogy they care to use. They never use their own words. That is significant to notice and very seldomly have views on their own. Usually they are just quoting the bible in their sentences, either indirectly or directly even giving you the exact location in the bible.

[miditek]

I know love&fear do not mix! And what I and other believers feel for God is NOT Fear, but respect, reverence, trust, faith, and yes, love. When people believe in nothing, they will usually fall for anything!

Outstanding @BEG, and C.S. Lewis (or Max Lucado) could not have said it better himself.

[TimoTolkki]

Nice quote from St.Paul:

The Apostle Paul explained that those who belong to Jesus Christ must behold both the goodness AND the severity of God:

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them that fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Romans 11:22

Paul preached that believers under grace are to fear God:

"be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

[browneyedgirl]

This is interesting.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html



However, I'm willing to wager that the faithful. real Christians are probably 1/3 of this number, because when asked, many people reply they are Christian even if they never had set foot in a church their whole life! They will say, "Well, Granny was a Christian", or "Granddaddy was a Catholic, I think", or "My GF took me to a CofC once, so I guess I believe that too."

I thought the world majority was Atheist, or Hinduism, so a person can learn something every day!
Going by this chart there's hope for the world yet!

[TimoTolkki]

Going by this chart there's hope for the world yet!

I wish there would be...even if we would stop all greenhouse emissions now, it still would not affect anything to the changes thats gonna happen in the next 25 years. Only after that. By the year 2050, the worlds estimated population is 9 billion and that´s pretty much it. No Jesus will save us from what´s gonna happen. And it´s gonna be a bit hard to worship God in churches that are under water. You call this Armageddon. I call this the end of "Industrialized "civilization". You will see that there will be no Jesus. Nor God. Just humongous changes in the worlds climate that will collapse the whole ecosystem and the world as we know.

About different religions, you know that never before has the rate of people resigning from different churches been that high than now? People are starting to get it. And that is very good, because it is about time to create a new idea about God and the world, based on love, not fear. Not punishment but awarness.

[miditek]

Nice quote from St.Paul:

The Apostle Paul explained that those who belong to Jesus Christ must behold both the goodness AND the severity of God:

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them that fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Romans 11:22

Paul preached that believers under grace are to fear God:

"be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

And what the quote above (in italics) is meant to say that Christians have been "grafted" into the Jewish family tree (a simple botanical term), and that they should not get "uppity" or "arrogant" about the fact that God has adopted us as well. If the original branches of the family tree (the Jews) had certain branches cut off (due to their rebellion against God), then Christians are most certainly not exempt.

[JensJohansson]

I must say that the human (not the croc nor the teddy bear) characters in the Russian video did seem to be wearing the uniforms of the Young Pioneers and appeared to be quite industrious little examples of the Proletariat.

So you noticed the little pioneers! What you have to understand is that people like me and Timo T "see pioneers" all over the Bible, so it becomes difficult for us sometimes to appreciate it just as a book of wisdom or ideas.

The Bible and the Christian faith was used as an societal administration tool in Europe.. eg, all the Nordic flags still have crosses on them. It's a difficult context to understand for Americans who have had complete freedom of religion as long as the nation has been there.

Anyway, apparently croc and "cheburashka" (that teddy bear thing) weren't allowed to join the pioneers later in the movie.. they didn't march properly!! So in a sense they were dissidents! But they somehow still all became friends later, because croc and "thing" built a playground.. all for the common good of course. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Pretty subtle, but still I'm sure it was vetted by the government. The stuff state tv served up for kids in Sweden when I grew up .. some of that was unbelievably fucking blatant. It was like "evil capitalist sock puppet is exploiting the poor grey little worker sock puppets".

I personally bought a monopoly game in the Soviet Union in 1989. Only it wasn't called "Monopoly" of course. It was called "Kooperativ".

As always with the soviet stuff, just projecting the image that all was OK was something that they sought after. Plenty probably was OK in 1969, I'm not saying that. But plenty was not too. I just read this Milan Kundera book, and that's perhaps why all this is sticking in my mind at the moment.

I regard also "soviet style communism" as some sort of quasi-religion (a pretty sinister one, also in the literal sense of that word i suppose). It had some of the hallmarks: proselytization, unverifiable claims, appeals to "just have faith" which turned into shrill attempts at forcing orthodox faith down everyone's else's throats etc. Another round of true believers forcing crap down the throats of the people of Europe.. just another day at the orifice. You have to take especially Europeans' suspiciousness toward "true believers" into that context sometimes.

Also, here's a textbook example of classic, Iranian antisemitic propaganda, so blatant that no one could dispute what it is.

Not so subtle ... these fuckers makes me miss the soviets

[browneyedgirl]

Going by this chart there's hope for the world yet!

the rate of people resigning from different churches been that high. And that is very good,

You see this as a good sign?
God help you, Timo.

God to human race: "You never disappoint me, because you always let me down!"

@stratoplayer, those "Christians" who insulted you are not real Christians, just Christians in name only. A REAL Christian would never be that rude, even in a debate. Like I said before, REAL Christians are the finest, coolest, most loving people you can meet. Its the "imposters" that are troublesome, but you have those in every religion. I would never tell someone they are going to Hell, for the simple reasons that I am no angel myself&I am not the one to judge anyone.

[TimoTolkki]

You see this as a good sign?
God help you, Timo.

Hahaha:) Yes I do. It paves the way to a newer kind of understanding.
Newer kind of ideas about the Universe and our place in it. New kind of
freedom and awarness that has no punishment, fear and guilt. But a loving Universe that guides us in our lifes (like it is doing now as well). A big shift is happening in the collective consciousness and crosses, crucifictions and judgement days will change to much more merciful understanding about "God" as you call her.
But first most of us will suffer from unseen events from the nature.

[Shurik]

Anyway, apparently croc and "cheburashka" (that teddy bear thing) weren't allowed to join the pioneers later in the movie.. they didn't march properly!! So in a sense they were dissidents! But they somehow still all became friends later, because croc and "thing" built a playground.. all for the common good of course. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Pretty subtle, but still I'm sure it was vetted by the government. The stuff state tv served up for kids in Sweden when I grew up .. some of that was unbelievably fucking blatant. It was like "evil capitalist sock puppet is exploiting the poor grey little worker sock puppets". Laughing

I personally bought a monopoly game in the Soviet Union in 1989. Only it wasn't called "Monopoly" of course. It was called "Kooperativ".

As a former soviet citizen and former member of Pioneer movement (I have photos from the ceremony where I was accepted to Pioneers, if anyone wants a proof), I have to defend the poor Crocodile Gena and Cheburashka (a big-eared teddybear thing). Yeah, there were pioneers and some soviet ideas in that cartoon (it was filmed in USSR, after all), but the main idea of this cartoon was that friendship is great and being friends is much better than being the enemies. The cartoon also taught children (through the pioneers stuff) to do good deeds. IMO, this is preferable to Tom&Jerry stuff ...

Not everything that came out of USSR and communist regime was that bad. I still enjoy some of the Soviet era cartoons and most of the old Soviet comedies because they are still damn funny, even after 30-40 years ...

[browneyedgirl]

I know love&fear do not mix! And what I and other believers feel for God is NOT Fear, but respect, reverence, trust, faith, and yes, love. When people believe in nothing, they will usually fall for anything!

Outstanding @BEG, and C.S. Lewis (or Max Lucado) could not have said it better himself.

Well, miditek, I started this topic to discuss predjudice against Jews because I got sick of reading that stupid conspiracy theory BS. But halfway down the first page Somebody changed the subject matter into a Christian bashing topic. I changed the title to reflect that. I guess the original idea hit a nerve, or something.

Its funny, these folks who say they are against organized religion always find a way to take sides with Islam, Paganism, etc. etc. Especially if these religions are against Christianity.

I wonder what these people would do if an Islam group kidnapped them&said,"Convert, or die?" Would these anti-religion folks have the courage of their convictions to die for their (dis)belief?
I would say to these Islams, "Chop-Chop, baby!"

[TimoTolkki]

Well, miditek, I started this topic to discuss predjudice against Jews because I got sick of reading that stupid conspiracy theory BS. But halfway down the first page Somebody changed the subject matter into a Christian bashing topic. I changed the title to reflect that. I guess the original idea hit a nerve, or something.

The original and current topic subjects are very simplified. "Hate" is a very strong word. For example I have never said I hate religion or christianity.
"Bashing" is a weird word too. I have said that I think there are many good things in all religions, but I have criticized the very idea of religion itself and if its needed or not. I don´t think its needed, but we are having a discussion here.

Its funny, these folks who say they are against organized religion always find a way to take sides with Islam, Paganism, etc. etc. Especially if these religions are against Christianity.

Once again extremely black and white way to think. Either or, black or white...Everybody is free to choose of course. Religions are losing power throughout the world and that makes the churches horrified of course. Because they lose the control over people and their money and church taxes.

I wonder what these people would do if an Islam group kidnapped them&said,"Convert, or die?" Would these anti-religion folks have the courage of their convictions to die for their (dis)belief?
I would say to these Islams, "Chop-Chop, baby!

Now to this I can say with a 100% certainty that no you wouldn´t.

[browneyedgirl]

TT, I think you would be suprised at the number of people, of ALL religions who would die for their faith.
TT, would YOU have the guts to do it? Would you choose death over being forced to follow a religion that you did not believe in, or knew was riddled with error?
There were many martyrs in the Christian church who believed like this.

[JensJohansson]

Well, miditek, I started this topic to discuss predjudice against Jews because I got sick of reading that stupid conspiracy theory BS. But halfway down the first page Somebody changed the subject matter into a Christian bashing topic.

If the original question was "Why do People Hate Jews?" the obvious answer is that historically, it was because they were not Christians, in following the "you'd better eat this bread or I'll fucking bash your head in" type of evangelism.

That atheists also systematically persecuted Jews in the 20th century was just out of old habit I guess.. that these godless people (still hiding behind a type of cross, mind you) would happen to have access to a state apparatus and post-industrialization technology was just monumental bad luck. Christians hated Jews first, long before Columbus found America.

[JensJohansson]

As a former soviet citizen and former member of Pioneer movement (I have photos from the ceremony where I was accepted to Pioneers, if anyone wants a proof), I have to defend the poor Crocodile Gena and Cheburashka (a big-eared teddybear thing). Yeah, there were pioneers and some soviet ideas in that cartoon (it was filmed in USSR, after all), but the main idea of this cartoon was that friendship is great and being friends is much better than being the enemies. The cartoon also taught children (through the pioneers stuff) to do good deeds. IMO, this is preferable to Tom&Jerry stuff ...

Not everything that came out of USSR and communist regime was that bad. I still enjoy some of the Soviet era cartoons and most of the old Soviet comedies because they are still damn funny, even after 30-40 years ...

Everything can be interpreted as propaganda...

In some way Tom and Jerry are living in a socialist utopia, because the supposedly weak (Jerry) always wins over the strong (Tom).. and Cheburashka and Gena are unable to march with the pioneers.. they must have been part of the liberal intelligentsia!

We had Cheburashka and Gena in Sweden too.. only they were called "Drutten and Jena", were (mostly) very poorly acted hand puppets in a TV program and of course spoke Swedish. Weird!

I definitely don't think all that came out of the USSR was bad. Larionov Makarov Krutov Kasatonov Fetisov for example .. very annoyingly good.

[miditek]

I must say that the human (not the croc nor the teddy bear) characters in the Russian video did seem to be wearing the uniforms of the Young Pioneers and appeared to be quite industrious little examples of the Proletariat.

So you noticed the little pioneers! What you have to understand is that people like me and Timo T "see pioneers" all over the Bible, so it becomes difficult for us sometimes to appreciate it just as a book of wisdom or ideas.

I do understand what you're saying, but have you or Tolkki actually ever read the Bible before? Not what we call "Bible Bingo"- just randomly reading verses, but the entire thing, cover to cover? I also understand that both of you were probably brought up in secular households in your respective countries. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, which probably explains why you view the Bible as the same as you would, let's say, Norse mythology- the whole Odin, Thor, and Loki thing.

The Bible and the Christian faith was used as an societal administration tool in Europe.. eg, all the Nordic flags still have crosses on them. It's a difficult context to understand for Americans who have had complete freedom of religion as long as the nation has been there.

Well, America was founded partially due to what was considered the tyranny of the Anglican (a/k/a Episcopal) church, and many of the original colonists decided to "rough it" over here in what was the wilderness of the New World, rather than continue to be controlled by either Canterbury or for that matter, Rome. So yes, I can completely understand your points above.

Anyway, apparently croc and "cheburashka" (that teddy bear thing) weren't allowed to join the pioneers later in the movie.. they didn't march properly!! So in a sense they were dissidents! But they somehow still all became friends later, because croc and "thing" built a playground.. all for the common good of course. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Pretty subtle, but still I'm sure it was vetted by the government. The stuff state tv served up for kids in Sweden when I grew up .. some of that was unbelievably fucking blatant. It was like "evil capitalist sock puppet is exploiting the poor grey little worker sock puppets".

I was well aware of the Soviet era propaganda, and we have seen the results of what seven and a half decades did for them. Tens of millions murdered by the state and for the sake of none other than the state itself, and now a state that exists solely for profit- sort of a combination oligarchy and kleptocracy along with a growing dose of Fascism.

But I had no idea that the kids in Sweden were indoctrinated with the Socialist propaganda, and the things that you've described. If you had not mentioned this, I would have simply assumed that the kids there grew up watching stuff that was similar to the popular "Sesame Street" program that I saw as a kid.

I personally bought a monopoly game in the Soviet Union in 1989. Only it wasn't called "Monopoly" of course. It was called "Kooperativ".

At that time, I remember that I was rather (pleasantly) surprised that the authorities allowed you guys to even play there. I'm sure that "Kooperativ" probably helped to relieve the overall boredom of the tour bus or airplane!

As always with the soviet stuff, just projecting the image that all was OK was something that they sought after. Plenty probably was OK in 1969, I'm not saying that. But plenty was not too. I just read this Milan Kundera book, and that's perhaps why all this is sticking in my mind at the moment.

My father was in St. Petersburg on business (Leningrad) about a year or two after you guys played there, and he said that it was a beautiful, although very dangerous city. His interpreter told him not to leave his hotel room at night, and to not answer the door. He remembers hearing automatic weapons fire all night long in the streets nearby.

I regard also "soviet style communism" as some sort of quasi-religion (a pretty sinister one, also in the literal sense of that word i suppose). It had some of the hallmarks: proselytization, unverifiable claims, appeals to "just have faith" which turned into shrill attempts at forcing orthodox faith down everyone's else's throats etc. Another round of true believers forcing crap down the throats of the people of Europe.. just another day at the orifice. You have to take especially Europeans' suspiciousness toward "true believers" into that context sometimes.

I think that you are right about Communism being a quasi-religion, or as I prefer to refer it to, a replacement for religion. Despite the Kremlin's best attempts, the (Orthodox) Church did not die, although it did have to go underground for a long time. It is interesting to note that the church both preceded as well as survived the USSR.

It hasn't been only the Church and Communism, there were also the Nazis, and other thuggish monarchies and dictatorships that have plagued Europe for a long time. My current concern is that Europe has utterly no will to confront radical Islam before it's too late. All in all, it's my opinion that Communism, Socialism, and Fascism did far more damage to the people of Europe than the church ever could have, and that radical Islam just may be the final nail in the coffin, so to speak. Just my $0.02 though.

Also, here's a textbook example of classic, Iranian antisemitic propaganda, so blatant that no one could dispute what it is.

Not so subtle ... these fuckers makes me miss the soviets

Tell me about it. The Islamofascist propaganda machine is about the most blunt that I've ever seen.

And then over here in the States, I recently saw an amusing story entitled: "Tom Cruise: Scientology's new Goebbels?" The irony that he is scheduled to being filming "Walkyrie" and starring as Graf von Stauffenberg was not lost on me.

(Disclaimer: If I have any German "cousins" lurking about here today, this is not an insult to Stauffenberg, as I considered him to be a patriot of Germany, and a far cry from either Goebbels or Hitler! )

[Shurik]

I definitely don't think all that came out of the USSR was bad. Larionov Makarov Krutov Kasatonov Fetisov for example .. very annoyingly good.

The best thing that came out of USSR are the old Soviet comedies and a movie called Kin-Dza-Dza ...

[stratoplayer]

Damn this thread moves FAST.

I don't paritucalirly think any religion is dangerous, since if you look at the core beliefs the tend to be individualistic in the sense that God(he she, they, it, whatever) judges one person and that one person goes to hell.

What IS incredibly dangerous are the followers who submit to a leader with an agenda, the blind faith so to speak is what freaks me out (think Jehova's witnesses kind of thing) how people give themselves up either by fear, promise, threats or any other method we've seen countless times in history.

BEG I know that there are Christians who are nice, hell most my friends are and I have no problem with it, what bothers me is that the Bible speaks down to Atheists, (don't remember where exactly but it went like, "And foolish is he who willingly denies Christ and God and..." so I have no reason to like the Bible, which is the keystone to the whole faith thing.

I am of the view, please do not take it personally and I mean no harm whatsoever, that people look to religion in order to avoid doing something or facing away from the truth like the argument, "If God wills is" or "It was what God wanted" I seriously think those people take refuge in that because they don't want to face reality.

[browneyedgirl]

Well, miditek, I started this topic to discuss predjudice against Jews because I got sick of reading that stupid conspiracy theory BS. But halfway down the first page Somebody changed the subject matter into a Christian bashing topic.

If the original question was "Why do People Hate Jews?" the obvious answer is that historically, it was because they were not Christians, in following the "you'd better eat this bread or I'll fucking bash your head in" type of evangelism.

That atheists also systematically persecuted Jews in the 20th century was just out of old habit I guess.. that these godless people (still hiding behind a type of cross, mind you) would happen to have access to a state apparatus and post-industrialization technology was just monumental bad luck. Christians hated Jews first, long before Columbus found America.

Actually, it was the ROMANS who hated Jews, and killed Jesus. Then of course, the Egyptians of the Old Testament had no use for Jews, either&that was long before Christianity got started.

@stratoplayer, I think you are referring to Cults&yes, they can be very dangerous!