IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

[miditek]

I read a page today that was kinda interesting. In 2001 a group of nations formed the SCO, and now they are inviting Iran&India to join them. Once of the aims of this group is to have a united front in case USA ever decides to invade Iran.
Intersting......I hope this link works---

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... tviewedbox

It's almost a bit like Tolkein's Lord of the Rings: "The board has been set, and the pieces are in motion." , although it is still both fascinating and astonishing to see all of this materializing before our very eyes.

For all of the talk of Armageddon that we've seen in this and other threads, it's looking to me much more like the War of Gog-Magog- a pre-tribulation event with each passing day, and it appears closer now than it has since 1973. Much of this is unprecedented; Russia of course, threatened to intervene both during the Six Day War as well as the Yom Kippur war, but Iran sat both of those wars out. The Chinese, Russians, and even the Indians and Pakistanis have never really gotten along, and have fought some bitter border clashes over the years

The Russian Navy is now resuming ops in the Mediterranean, and is making Israel even more nervous. Russia has never been friendlier with Iran than it is now.

www.kommersant.com/p793357/r_542/overse ... bases_navy

Hezbollah, IRG's (Iranian Revolutionary Guard) proxy forces in Lebanon, has stated that it is "ready" for more action against Israel, and Iran's main IRG has now been officially declared a terrorist organization by the US State Department.

If all of this still isn't too much too fast, Israeli PM Ohlmert is vowing to have a peace treaty signed with the PLO by November. The only thing that I can see that is missing from the puzzle now is an announcement that Zion Gas and Oil has finally hit a major strike somewhere such as Ashkelon; one that could rival Iraq's or Saudi Arabia's reserves. This would tip the entire balance of power in the region, and should also be the signal that starts the real trouble as described in Ezekiel chs. 38 & 39.

The invasion force in Ezekiel names Rosh (Russia), Meshach (Moscow), Tubal (Tobolsk), Persia (Iran), Libya, Ethiopia, and several other nations, and the military forces arrayed are destroyed via natural disasters.

On a related note, there is estimated to be a reserve of over a billion barrels deep beneath the plains at Megiddo; the traditional spot where the Battle of Armageddon is scheduled to take place.

[browneyedgirl]

I found this aricle interesting because the events seem to have the potential to possibly be part of the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. There have been doomsday sayers who have stated that it is the EU which would in the future become a terrifying force to reckon with. Actually, a conglomerate of ASIAN countries is what may be the wheel which sets all in motion. We just may see USA, EU, and UK all become minor players in world events in the future. And, USA-criticizers/bashers, I would not be too thrilled about that because the potential Gog-Magog Superpower will create a world which nothing will be a laughing matter!

[miditek]

I found this article interesting because the events seem to have the potential to possibly be part of the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

Yes, the article is fascinating, no doubt about it. Of course, there are some that have an explanation for everything (without considering the strong possibility that this is the explanation of what's going on!) Joel's Rosenberg's novel, "The Ezekiel Option" outlines the events leading up to this, as well as the aftermath, quite well!

2008 will prove to be a very interesting year; it will be the last year of the current U.S. administration, as well as new elections in Russia. I suspect that Defense Minister Ivanov would be a likely replacement for Putin- while I would consider someone like Zhirinovsky to be more of a "dark horse" type of candidate.

There have been doomsday sayers who have stated that it is the EU which would in the future become a terrifying force to reckon with.

In the financial sense, the EU seems to have done rather well, in forming a common currency for the Continent. In other regards though, perhaps not so well. Save that of the UK, I consider most other militaries in the EU to be something of a joke. Also, politically speaking, the EU is an even bigger joke.

However, Ezekiel does speak of a revived Roman empire as one of the bases of power for the "princes of the North", and the EU does seem to fit that rather nicely.

Actually, a conglomerate of ASIAN countries is what may be the wheel which sets all in motion.

The book of Revelations speaks of an army of 200,000,000 men coming from the "Kings of the East", so it is very likely that Asian armies will play a role at the Battle of Armageddon, but I am not so sure about the War of Gog-Magog. It's interesting to note that when St. John wrote the book of Revelations, there were not even 200,000,000 people in the entire world at that time, but as far back as 1970, the government in Beijing was claiming that it had the capability to field an army of exactly that magnitude. Coincidence? Perhaps, but why would Beijing being bragging about the same number that St. John did over 2,000 years ago, and not to mention the same geographic region? It's not like the party officials that made those claims were at all familiar with the Bible

We just may see USA, EU, and UK all become minor players in world events in the future. And, USA-criticizers/bashers, I would not be too thrilled about that because the potential Gog-Magog Superpower will create a world which nothing will be a laughing matter!

It's very difficult to tell exactly what will become of the US, but things are not looking good for us as a country. Britain's power was dramatically diminished following the end of WWII. The EU will continue to be a bunch of quibbling and squabbling bureaucrats as they always have, and will likely be dragged into a disastrous campaign against Israel at the behest (or some say demand) of Russia. It will be very interesting to see how all of this turns out, that's for sure.

[browneyedgirl]

Does the EU get alot of its Petro from Russia? Or even just half of it? Well, if it does, then this would be a great bargaining/blackmail chip that the Gog-Magog alliance could use to "urge" the EU to go along with them. Make the EU an offer it cannot refuse. I mean, I doubt if the EU wants to go back to the horse&buggy days.

[miditek]

France's Sarkozy raises prospect of Iran airstrikes
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3442638,00.html

Holy shit! I do believe that a winged pig just flew past my office window!

[browneyedgirl]

France's Sarkozy raises prospect of Iran airstrikes
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3442638,00.html

Holy shit! I do believe that a winged pig just flew past my office window!

Midtek, that does not sound good and I have read quite a few articles the last couple days on that issue.
Maybe I should find some connections&try to get Vic into Canada or Mexico. I'll be damned if I raise a child to adulthood just to have him yanked from me to die in some battle. There are already some who are calling for the draft, and I so fear if there is a war with Iran thats what will happen.

[TimoTolkki]

France's Sarkozy raises prospect of Iran airstrikes
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3442638,00.html

Holy shit! I do believe that a winged pig just flew past my office window!

Go for it!! I think the US government and everybody that support its expansion politics need another Iraq before it learns its lessons. Only Iran is not Iraq.

[browneyedgirl]

TT, you need to put a reality cap on. IF USA strikes Iran, it will not be just USA&allies or Iran who will face the consequences or learn lessons. Russia might get involved&(repeat)use a type of economic blackmail to coerce the EU into joining them against USA&allies. Russia does supply a great amount to oil to EU. Of course, based on the anti-USA postings prevalent, I'd say not much force will be necessary on Russia's part.

I'd like to ask all who hate the USA&Bush, a serious question. Do you think getting rid of Bush is going to change the world? In the grand scheme of things, after Bush is gone is the world going to become the way you want it to be? Will the world become to your liking after a Democrat is elected? If another Republican is elected, is the world going to continue to scapegoat the USA for everything that does not pan out the way you want?

Just wondering about the mindset.

[TimoTolkki]

double post

[TimoTolkki]

TT, you need to put a reality cap on. IF USA strikes Iran, it will not be just USA&allies or Iran who will face the consequences or learn lessons. Russia might get involved&(repeat)use a type of economic blackmail to coerce the EU into joining them against USA&allies. Russia does supply a great amount to oil to EU. Of course, based on the anti-USA postings prevalent, I'd say not much force will be necessary on Russia's part.

Which allies? The "coalition of the willing"? EU is not that keen on to expand, at least by using military force in highly questionable circumstances by invading for example Iraq illegally without the mandate from international community. That is not scapecoating, that is a fact.
USA will bomb Iran together with Israel. Maybe within 4 months or so.
And again without mandate from international community. After that, it is possible that sanctions will be issued against USA by another "coalition of the willing". Of course the bombings will just cause more threat to the normal people´s everyday lifes. I´m not sure if I wanna travel anymore anywhere.

About the oil, EU buys a lot of its oil from Norway which is 3rd largest oil producer in the world plus the new plans:
A new oil pipeline linking Azerbaijan with Turkey could see the European Union (EU) reduce its Russian oil imports by up to a quarter by the end of the decade, said an expert from the International Energy Agency (IEA) on Thursday.
The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) line, which started pumping light crude oil on Wednesday is set to hit its full capacity of 1 million barrels a day by 2008.
At the moment, the EU imports some 4 million barrels a day from Russia.
"It is possible that Europe's Russian imports could go down by a proportionate amount", IEA oil expert David Fyfe told online newsletter EUobserver on Thursday.

I'd like to ask all who hate the USA&Bush, a serious question. Do you think getting rid of Bush is going to change the world?

No. He is just a puppet for economical world as it has been proved many times. In the upcoming budget, Bush administration asks for 100 Billion Dollars more for Iraq and 70 Billion Dollars for the war against "terrorism".
At the same time the situation of New Orleans hasn´t STILL been corrected. That´s unbelievable.

[miditek]

Which allies? The "coalition of the willing"? EU is not that keen on to expand, at least by using military force in highly questionable circumstances by invading for example Iraq illegally without the mandate from international community. That is not scapegoating, that is a fact.

Speaking of mandates of the "international community", what the US saw prior to the eve of the invasion was political grandstanding by Putin, Chirac, and Schroeder- all of which had close economic ties and interests to the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein.

All of them stood to lose a lot of money if the US invaded, which is obviously why they protested so loudly. Germany, France, and Russia hardly constitute the entire "international community". There were plenty of players in the "Oil for Food" scandal- among them, the son of former UN Sec Gen Annan.

USA will bomb Iran together with Israel. Maybe within 4 months or so. And again without mandate from international community. After that, it is possible that sanctions will be issued against USA by another "coalition of the willing". Of course the bombings will just cause more threat to the normal people´s everyday lifes. I´m not sure if I wanna travel anymore anywhere.

It is certainly possible that either the US, Israel, or both will attack Iran, and if this happens, it will have to be soon, as the Bush administration has less than two years before the next election. Does the world wish to sit back and let Ahmandinejad follow through on his threats, as it did with Hitler?

No. He is just a puppet for economical world as it has been proved many times. In the upcoming budget, Bush administration asks for 100 Billion Dollars more for Iraq and 70 Billion Dollars for the war against "terrorism".At the same time the situation of New Orleans hasn´t STILL been corrected. That´s unbelievable.

If Bush is indeed a puppet, then he is no different than Putin, Chirac, or Schroeder. Do you think that Putin is a nice guy? You don't think that he gets greased (bribed) by various corporate interests in Russia? Have you seen what happens to his political opponents?

I also see that you put terrorism in quotations. Does this mean that you consider Hamas or Hezbollah to be "freedom fighters"? Were the rockets that were launched into Israel last year simply expensive fireworks? Is it okay for someone to blow themselves up in a Sbarro's pizza parlor and take as many innocent people as they can with them, all due to their hatred of the "Zionist entity"?

Surely you don't actually sympathize with these people and their tactics, do you? Also, do you not think that Iran doesn't have blood on its hands and is not interfering all across the Middle East, including Iraq?

Also, regarding New Orleans, the Fed has poured billions of dollars into a city, that I can assure you, is the most corrupt city in the entire country. Have you not seen the news reports of people there that have been convicted of defrauding the government?

Have you seen the newsreels of people that were stealing cases (yes cases) of new Reeboks and Nikes from Wal-Mart? Taking food and water, that I can see, but stealing television sets in a city that did not even have electricity at the time does not make me very sympathetic.

The city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana, in addition to the Fed, have known for years that the levees would not be able to contain the sea of a truly bad storm ever hit. This should not be surprising. Perhaps they should have paid a bit less attention to the "motor voting" campaign and a bit more attention to warnings from the US Army Corps of Engineers, and perhaps, some of the flooding could have been avoided.

But the politicians of both parties could not have cared less, until after the disaster struck. The mayor of New Orleans as well as the governor of Louisiana are equally complicit in this sorry state of affairs. Mayor Nagin can blame "whitey Bush" all that he wants, but if he'd like to see a study in failed leadership, he does not need to look any further than the mirror.

[TimoTolkki]

Which allies? The "coalition of the willing"? EU is not that keen on to expand, at least by using military force in highly questionable circumstances by invading for example Iraq illegally without the mandate from international community. That is not scapegoating, that is a fact.

Speaking of mandates of the "international community", what the US saw prior to the eve of the invasion was political grandstanding by Putin, Chirac, and Schroeder- all of which had close economic ties and interests to the Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein.

All of them stood to lose a lot of money if the US invaded, which is obviously why they protested so loudly. Germany, France, and Russia hardly constitute the entire "international community". There were plenty of players in the "Oil for Food" scandal- among them, the son of former UN Sec Gen Annan.

USA will bomb Iran together with Israel. Maybe within 4 months or so. And again without mandate from international community. After that, it is possible that sanctions will be issued against USA by another "coalition of the willing". Of course the bombings will just cause more threat to the normal people´s everyday lifes. I´m not sure if I wanna travel anymore anywhere.

It is certainly possible that either the US, Israel, or both will attack Iran, and if this happens, it will have to be soon, as the Bush administration has less than two years before the next election. Does the world wish to sit back and let Ahmandinejad follow through on his threats, as it did with Hitler?

No. He is just a puppet for economical world as it has been proved many times. In the upcoming budget, Bush administration asks for 100 Billion Dollars more for Iraq and 70 Billion Dollars for the war against "terrorism".At the same time the situation of New Orleans hasn´t STILL been corrected. That´s unbelievable.

If Bush is indeed a puppet, then he is no different than Putin, Chirac, or Schroeder. Do you think that Putin is a nice guy? You don't think that he gets greased (bribed) by various corporate interests in Russia? Have you seen what happens to his political opponents?

I also see that you put terrorism in quotations. Does this mean that you consider Hamas or Hezbollah to be "freedom fighters"? Were the rockets that were launched into Israel last year simply expensive fireworks? Is it okay for someone to blow themselves up in a Sbarro's pizza parlor and take as many innocent people as they can with them, all due to their hatred of the "Zionist entity"?

Surely you don't actually sympathize with these people and their tactics, do you? Also, do you not think that Iran doesn't have blood on its hands and is not interfering all across the Middle East, including Iraq?

Also, regarding New Orleans, the Fed has poured billions of dollars into a city, that I can assure you, is the most corrupt city in the entire country. Have you not seen the news reports of people there that have been convicted of defrauding the government?

Have you seen the newsreels of people that were stealing cases (yes cases) of new Reeboks and Nikes from Wal-Mart? Taking food and water, that I can see, but stealing television sets in a city that did not even have electricity at the time does not make me very sympathetic.

The city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana, in addition to the Fed, have known for years that the levees would not be able to contain the sea of a truly bad storm ever hit. This should not be surprising. Perhaps they should have paid a bit less attention to the "motor voting" campaign and a bit more attention to warnings from the US Army Corps of Engineers, and perhaps, some of the flooding could have been avoided.

But the politicians of both parties could not have cared less, until after the disaster struck. The mayor of New Orleans as well as the governor of Louisiana are equally complicit in this sorry state of affairs. Mayor Nagin can blame "whitey Bush" all that he wants, but if he'd like to see a study in failed leadership, he does not need to look any further than the mirror.

Amen. Puppet Bush has much more power than Puppet Putin or the other Puppets. Lots of bad puppets out there. But the best I save for the last:
"Does the world wish to sit back and let Ahmandinejad follow through on his threats, as it did with Hitler? "
That´s a classic!

[miditek]

But the best I save for the last:
"Does the world wish to sit back and let Ahmandinejad follow through on his threats, as it did with Hitler? " That´s a classic!

Tolkki, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at on this. Would you mind elaborating just a bit on what you mean by that? Hitler threatened to destroy the Jews, and almost succeeded. Ahmandinejad has threatened many times to blow Israel off of the map, and continues to pursue nuclear weapons.

In my opinion, the balance of terror of the Cold War does not apply in this scenario. Ahmandinejad thinks that it is his duty to annihilate Israel and to take Jerusalem by force, in order to hasten the appearance of the Mahdi- who is the Shi'ite messiah.

Do you think that your opinion might be a bit different if you were a citizen of the state of Israel as opposed to being a native Finn?

[TimoTolkki]

Tolkki, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at on this. Would you mind elaborating just a bit on what you mean by that? Hitler threatened to destroy the Jews, and almost succeeded. Ahmandinejad has threatened many times to blow Israel off of the map, and continues to pursue nuclear weapons.

First of all you overestimate his power. His has no true power in Iran. He is just a loudmouth idiot. And as you know, nuclear weapons are difficult to make. It doesn´t happen in 2 years. And finally your comparison to Hitler is just utterly ridiculous. Besides the whole Israel/Arab conflict will never be solved because nobody wants to solve it. These idiots will never be able to come up with a rational solution or compromise.

Do you think that your opinion might be a bit different if you were a citizen of the state of Israel as opposed to being a native Finn?

No, because if Finland would be in the same position and I would consider that there is a threat, I would leave the country. And so therefore if I would be an IsraELITE, I would do the same. I am a pacifist. There are pacifists in Israel too.
As far as I am concerned, they can both blow each others to smithereens.
I don´t really care.

[NeonVomit]

But the best I save for the last:
"Does the world wish to sit back and let Ahmandinejad follow through on his threats, as it did with Hitler? " That´s a classic!

Tolkki, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at on this. Would you mind elaborating just a bit on what you mean by that? Hitler threatened to destroy the Jews, and almost succeeded. Ahmandinejad has threatened many times to blow Israel off of the map, and continues to pursue nuclear weapons.

In my opinion, the balance of terror of the Cold War does not apply in this scenario. Ahmandinejad thinks that it is his duty to annihilate Israel and to take Jerusalem by force, in order to hasten the appearance of the Mahdi- who is the Shi'ite messiah.

Do you think that your opinion might be a bit different if you were a citizen of the state of Israel as opposed to being a native Finn?

We've been through this. It has been explained to you that he holds no real power in Iran, it is the Council of Experts who are the real power. But since you love figureheads and catchphrases so much, go for it.

[browneyedgirl]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6984102.stm

I thought this guy was dead? I know one thing, everytime he crawls out from under his rock, or exits his cave something horrible happens in the world!

[NeonVomit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6997935.stm

Tough talk from France. I wonder how this is going down with the French public...

[miditek]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6997935.stm

Tough talk from France. I wonder how this is going down with the French public...

All Hail Emperor Sarkoleon I !

<insert Paiste/symphonic/Gong/sample/44.1K/wav/here>

Hopefully, this won't turn into another Casablanca..

[browneyedgirl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12370498
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20880736

If anyone cares, new news about Iran, and Bin Laden and Pakistan.

Also, Iran's leader has been blocked from WTC website&he is pissed! I'll find the link later.

[TimoTolkki]

Also, Iran's leader has been blocked from WTC website&he is pissed! I'll find the link later.

Now how come this guy was allowed to enter us of a?

[miditek]

Also, Iran's leader has been blocked from WTC website&he is pissed! I'll find the link later.

Now how come this guy was allowed to enter us of a?

I think that Mahamoud's visa was rejected by acting Finnish President Conan O'Brien, who was filling in at that time for the vacationing Tarja Halonen. He then referred Ahmanutjob to the U.S. State Department, who in turn, approved a temporary work visa for him. It was really the only way that they could get the two of you together for the front cover of "Tiger Beat" magazine.

[TimoTolkki]

Also, Iran's leader has been blocked from WTC website&he is pissed! I'll find the link later.

Now how come this guy was allowed to enter us of a?

I think that Mahamoud's visa was rejected by acting Finnish President Conan O'Brien, who was filling in at that time for the vacationing Tarja Halonen. He then referred Ahmanutjob to the U.S. State Department, who in turn, approved a temporary work visa for him. It was really the only way that they could get the two of you together for the front cover of "Tiger Beat" magazine.

Hahaha, since there is no law that prevents him entering the WTC site, they closed it down. It means that nobody else can go there as long as it´s "under construction". That´s too funny. The guy that openly threatens us of a and according to Miditek is the incarnation of the evil itself, is walking on US soil. Land of the free and home of the brave!!!

[miditek]

Also, Iran's leader has been blocked from WTC website&he is pissed! I'll find the link later.

Now how come this guy was allowed to enter us of a?

I think that Mahamoud's visa was rejected by acting Finnish President Conan O'Brien, who was filling in at that time for the vacationing Tarja Halonen. He then referred Ahmanutjob to the U.S. State Department, who in turn, approved a temporary work visa for him. It was really the only way that they could get the two of you together for the front cover of "Tiger Beat" magazine.

Hahaha, since there is no law that prevents him entering the WTC site, they closed it down. It means that nobody else can go there as long as it´s "under construction". That´s too funny. The guy that openly threatens us of a and according to Miditek is the incarnation of the evil itself, is walking on US soil. Land of the free and home of the brave!!!

Apparently, someone accidentally refilled the Prozac dispensers at the State Department with Quaaludes or some other variation of disco biscuits. Whoever is responsible for this ambomination should be immediately deported to Scandinavia, and then forced to live on an island near the arctic circle for the next twenty-five years- with only red herring and Kosenkorva for provisions.

It's just as well that the jihadist twerp was denied access to WTC. Job sites can be very dangerous places, and I'd hate to think that an accident could occur there. That's the very thing that could start a war.

[Shurik]

No, because if Finland would be in the same position and I would consider that there is a threat, I would leave the country. And so therefore if I would be an IsraELITE, I would do the same. I am a pacifist. There are pacifists in Israel too.

And where would you go, were you an Israeli? USA? Australia? Europe? Go back to former USSR?
I moved from one country to another once in my life, I don't want to do it again. It's not as easy as you think. Beside it, I can't leave the only place on Earth where I feel at home.

And how can you call yourself a "pacifist" when you write this sentence:

As far as I am concerned, they can both blow each others to smithereens.
I don´t really care.

Shouldn't you, as a self-proclaimed pacifist, write something like "I hope there will be a peace between them very soon"?

[TimoTolkki]

And how can you call yourself a "pacifist" when you write this sentence:
As far as I am concerned, they can both blow each others to smithereens.

How you define a pacifist?I define it like this: refusing to defend a piece of land known as "fatherland" and refusing to be brainwashed by an ideology that encourages the using of violence". So I would not use a gun or "defend" any country. There are always places to go in the world. You do what you want. I do what I want.

I don´t really care
Shouldn't you, as a self-proclaimed pacifist, write something like "I hope there will be a peace between them very soon"?

Of course. That´s what I hope. But the other option is there as well and also one solution, albeit not a good one, but much more likely to happen.
You are biased about Hamas and Hamas is biased about you. It goes on and on forever.

[Shurik]

You are biased about Hamas and Hamas is biased about you. It goes on and on forever.

Yes, I'm biased about the organization that killed hundreds of Israelis just because they are Israelis and continues to try it despite the fact Israel left Gaza Strip like 2 years ago.

I understand that it's hard or you to understand how people live and think here, but you can at least try. Trust me, you are lucky to live in place as quiet as Finland.

How you define a pacifist?I define it like this: refusing to defend a piece of land known as "fatherland" and refusing to be brainwashed by an ideology that encourages the using of violence". So I would not use a gun or "defend" any country. There are always places to go in the world. You do what you want. I do what I want.

Pacifism for me is is refusal to fight using weapons, but fight using non-violent means, the best example of true pacifism for me is Mahatmah Ghandi. I am personally not a pacifist, and I will use a gun to defend a country where I live and consider my home.

And what would you do when you run out of places to go?

[NeonVomit]

You are biased about Hamas and Hamas is biased about you. It goes on and on forever.

Yes, I'm biased about the organization that killed hundreds of Israelis just because they are Israelis and continues to try it despite the fact Israel left Gaza Strip like 2 years ago.

I understand that it's hard or you to understand how people live and think here, but you can at least try. Trust me, you are lucky to live in place as quiet as Finland.

As quiet as Finland now. For the first half of the 20th century, it was anything but quiet.

How you define a pacifist?I define it like this: refusing to defend a piece of land known as "fatherland" and refusing to be brainwashed by an ideology that encourages the using of violence". So I would not use a gun or "defend" any country. There are always places to go in the world. You do what you want. I do what I want.

Pacifism for me is is refusal to fight using weapons, but fight using non-violent means, the best example of true pacifism for me is Mahatmah Ghandi. I am personally not a pacifist, and I will use a gun to defend a country where I live and consider my home.

And what would you do when you run out of places to go?[/quote]

I understand both Timo and Shurik's views. Some people don't want anything to do with nationalism or fighting at all, which is fair enough. On the other hand, some people will not let anyone else whose desires conflict their own so seriously come and do what they want.

I guess it's a character thing.

[Carcass]

I understand both Timo and Shurik's views. Some people don't want anything to do with nationalism or fighting at all, which is fair enough. On the other hand, some people will not let anyone else whose desires conflict their own so seriously come and do what they want.

Which camp do you stand in? Or are you on the fence, like me. I really don't know what I'd do in case the tanks would come rolling over the border once more (not that they are going to, Russia has adopted the Western way of [economic] warfare).

[NeonVomit]

I understand both Timo and Shurik's views. Some people don't want anything to do with nationalism or fighting at all, which is fair enough. On the other hand, some people will not let anyone else whose desires conflict their own so seriously come and do what they want.

Which camp do you stand in? Or are you on the fence, like me. I really don't know what I'd do in case the tanks would come rolling over the border once more (not that they are going to, Russia has adopted the Western way of [economic] warfare).

Hm. If Turkey decided to launch an attack on the rest of Cyprus, I dont know.

I served in the National Guard for two years. I'm trained and I know how to fight. I would fight back, simply because my entire family lives here. I'd fight to defend my family and loved ones, not to defend a patch of dirt.

But Cyprus is an unusual situation, to say the least.

In many other cases around the world, I'd be tempted to say 'screw it' and just leave.

I guess each person's opinion depends on where and how they grew up.

[browneyedgirl]

http://en.rian.ru/world/20071016/84155674.stm

Aggressors?
Lots of interesting links from this article, saying several nations are joining together to "protect" itself against aggressors.