BBC: global warming sceptics may have been right...

[Me, My Enemy]

Hm, I think I once saw an evidence that this wouldn't happen without humans' influence in this Al Gore film...because in those graph-thingies the relationship between emissions and increase of heat got very clear...and...one could see as well, that such an ...öhm *wordsearch* cliffy line of degree-change hasn't been there before or something like that, so if I'm not mistaken, humans caused this for sure.


-------------------

Hm...bout the video...
I watched farther on and maybe...it's just a bit too much of theories...I don't know whether to believe all those things or not...better believe nothing, lol, neither that it's true, nor that it isn't
I think...I get confused by all this information from so many sides, anyway...
In this vid there are many cuts and it seems to be put together properly, so maybe someone just wants to make believe it makes sense...especially in this part two...there are some people existing who can find arguments very well and make everything seem logical, though it is not true...and, the music sometimes seems as well as if it wants to confuse and manipulate ones mind, so... anyway...I think one has to be careful what to believe or not...so it's interesting, this vid...but...as I said, believe in it... I somehow...am afraid now

[black death]

Hm, I think I once saw an evidence that this wouldn't happen without humans' influence in this Al Gore film...

I'm not sure what in Al Gore film is EVIDENCE

[TimoTolkki]

Hm, I think I once saw an evidence that this wouldn't happen without humans' influence in this Al Gore film...

I'm not sure what in Al Gore film is EVIDENCE

His film is an accurate representation of what is going to happen. The evidence is backed by most non corrupted leading scientists, even the leading economical scientists, which is a sure sign that things are fucked up.

[black death]

Hm...bout the video...
I watched farther on and maybe...it's just a bit too much of theories...I don't know whether to believe all those things or not...better believe nothing, lol, neither that it's true, nor that it isn't
I think...I get confused by all this information from so many sides, anyway...
In this vid there are many cuts and it seems to be put together properly, so maybe someone just wants to make believe it makes sense...especially in this part two...there are some people existing who can find arguments very well and make everything seem logical, though it is not true...and, the music sometimes seems as well as if it wants to confuse and manipulate ones mind, so... anyway...I think one has to be careful what to believe or not...so it's interesting, this vid...but...as I said, believe in it... I somehow...am afraid now

Finally I found some time to watch it . Look at what Jens wrote:

interesting movie (although a bit long and perhaps a little high on paranoia):

That's accurate. I would say a little bit more high on paranoia
You wrote "I don't know whether to believe all those things or not...better believe nothing, lol, neither that it's true, nor that it isn't", but on the other hand, you also wrote "I somehow...am afraid now".
I'm sure that many of the informations there are truth, but the point is HOW you handle those informations. And this handling with informations is really paranoic in the video.

Hm, I think I once saw an evidence that this wouldn't happen without humans' influence in this Al Gore film...

I'm not sure what in Al Gore film is EVIDENCE

His film is an accurate representation of what is going to happen. The evidence is backed by most non corrupted leading scientists, even the leading economical scientists, which is a sure sign that things are fucked up.

I haven't seen that film. But I would be very cautious to believe a politician on such a position as Al Gore is, at the time and on the place where this topic is so popularised.

[Me, My Enemy]

Gore travelled around the world and "spread this message" (if you can call it like that) long long before, before everyone started to talk about it (he didn't make a film you know but he travelled into many cities and spoke for some crouds about this thing, and he did it for years), and this politician-thing is always the argument against Gore and the film, and I can't hear it anymore. I think one should watch the film before one can talk, because the scientists who confirmed what Gore sais aren't in any position which could be improved by this film. The oppisite's rather the case because some even were paid to change their opinions don't know to drag gore in the mud or whatever. The films made with many facts, graphs and explainations about the climate change thing, not full of propaganda.
Don't know...would you do me a favor and watch the film? Don't know if it's asked too much, but...maybe it would change your opinion.
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Ahhh I forgot the video thing:

Yeah...very paranoid ^^" I was afraid because I didn't know anything anymore what to think, and being not sure what to think always makes me afraid ^^"

[black death]

Gore travelled around the world and "spread this message" (if you can call it like that) long long before, before everyone started to talk about it (he didn't make a film you know but he travelled into many cities and spoke for some crouds about this thing, and he did it for years), and this politician-thing is always the argument against Gore and the film, and I can't hear it anymore. I think one should watch the film before one can talk, because the scientists who confirmed what Gore sais aren't in any position which could be improved by this film. The oppisite's rather the case because some even were paid to change their opinions don't know to drag gore in the mud or whatever. The films made with many facts, graphs and explainations about the climate change thing, not full of propaganda.
Don't know...would you do me a favor and watch the film? Don't know if it's asked too much, but...maybe it would change your opinion.

I didn't say anything AGAINST the film! I just wrote that I would be very cautious to believe everything in it. Maybe I'll watch it some day, but it doesn't change anything on the fact, that if you're watching a document, which SHOULD be unbiased, you have to put aside all information that could be somehow affected by the opinion of the author (or director, producer...) and you have to keep in mind that he is the person who choose WHO and WHAT will be in the film. And this will never be absolutely impartial. I don't doubt that the film contains "many facts, graphs and explainations about the climate change thing", and I believe it's everything true, not propaganda...but still there's the choice of what will be in the film and what NOT.

[Me, My Enemy]

Yes, you're right with this, that he was able to choose the things which are in the film or the people working with him.
And, yes, of course one has to be cautious (with everything) what to believe or what not to believe.
But...I couldn't tell you an example in the film which I would doubt, so just let me say it like that: I for one for sure believe it.
and hm yeah as I said before it's hard to discuss as you didn't watch it.
Maybe you get an easy opportunity too see it.

[browneyedgirl]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/educ ... 037671.stm


Well, as Larry Flynt always says, "Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one!"

[black death]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ ... index.html

[browneyedgirl]

Gore mentioned that if he won the Nobel prize he'd run for Prez, so I wonder, is he now?

[NeonVomit]

They'll just start saying things like 'Yasser Arafat got a Nobel prize, they're not worth anything' in the press.

He'd be a better choice than many others though.

[Me, My Enemy]

I for one am glad Gore won the price

[black death]

Hmm...can anybody explain me, what is the connection between Al Gore's activities and world peace?

[miditek]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ ... index.html

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!


Der Goracle Wins Nobel Peace Prize- Tolkki to present honors at ceremony in Oslo

Oslo (AP)- Former American Vice-President Albert Gore, Jr. has won the Nobel Peace prize. How this prize relates to Global Warming is anybody's guess at this point- including the former second banana himself! Much like the Internet itself, global warming is apparently another Gore invention! The award will be presented to Gore in Oslo by Finnish musician/producer Timo Tolkki at a date to be determined later by the Nobel Committee.

Meanwhile,...the ghost of Frank Zappa is saying, "I simply don't understand why anyone is still listening to this idiot! I thought I did a pretty good job of mopping the floor with his ass during the PMRC rock lyric hearings in the U.S. Senate. The next thing you know, he'll be running for president again. His sense of entitlement just kills me!"

Hmm...can anybody explain me, what is the connection between Al Gore's activities and world peace?

That is one of those zen-like questions that only Jens could answer! Stay tuned!

[NeonVomit]

Hmm...can anybody explain me, what is the connection between Al Gore's activities and world peace?

It is widely believed most future conflicts will take place over resources such as arable land and water. The Nobel commitee explained that by raising awareness over the issue of climate change, future conflicts might be prevented.

It's quite sensible, really.

If Al Gore was a republican, I doubt miditek would find it all so funny.

But anyway, reality has a well-known liberal bias in any case.

[browneyedgirl]

Hmm...can anybody explain me, what is the connection between Al Gore's activities and world peace?

It is widely believed most future conflicts will take place over resources such as arable land and water.

Or, Oil.

[miditek]

It is widely believed most future conflicts will take place over resources such as arable land and water. The Nobel commitee explained that by raising awareness over the issue of climate change, future conflicts might be prevented.

Or, cutting to the chase, an irrational hatred of Israel. (And really, just how arable was that land until the Jews repopulated it? The desert wasn't exactly blooming back then like it is now, eh?)

If Al Gore was a republican, I doubt miditek would find it all so funny.

No Republican would ever be a far-left radical eco-nut like Gore, although there are certainly at least some Republicans that could consider themselves to be Conservationists. Conservationists are people that do want to preserve America's natural beauty and resources, but don't consider Das Kapital to be the Bible at the same time.

In fact, I'm going to nickname Gore "Al Attention Whore" since he seems to still need a lot of it to stroke his bruised ego from the 2000 elections. He's such a noble cry-baby, isn't he? Fuck, I guess with this new prize he's certified now!

[Carcass]

Yeah, damn irrational, childish, ungovernable, bloodthirsty and sex-addicted Arabs!

[NeonVomit]

He raised awareness and made climate change a major issue. From something dirty hippies were harping on about, to a priority.

The evidence is there, and say whatever you like, the consensus exists in the scientific community. As I said, you tend to only find people who claim that climate change is nonsense in America, and 9/10 times, it's politically motivated. Alarmist or not, that film raised awareness and debate on a pretty crucial issue.

How is that possibly a bad thing?

Again, it is the politicisisation of topics such as these which make people lose sight of the real issues.

Right or left-wing, climate change is going to affect everyone. It's time for people to pull their heads out of their asses and start working towards a solution while we have time. There is no time for politics and other related rubbish.

[stratohawk]

Right or left-wing, climate change is going to affect everyone. It's time for people to pull their heads out of their asses and start working towards a solution while we have time. There is no time for politics and other related rubbish.

Exactly. Why are so many people still politicizing issues that concern everybody? Climate change is not an invention of "left-wing radicalists". It's bloody reality, and it will affect every skinhead, every hippie, every multi billionaire. Well, in fact, the last one might be in the comfortable position to flee from what might happen in the nearby future. That's what is really unjust. The poor suffer most from climate change.

[black death]

Hmm...can anybody explain me, what is the connection between Al Gore's activities and world peace?

It is widely believed most future conflicts will take place over resources such as arable land and water. The Nobel commitee explained that by raising awareness over the issue of climate change, future conflicts might be prevented.

...so Al Gore won this price for fighting against something what MIGHT happen in the furure . For some reason I feel that there many people who deserve this price much more. They're fighting against PRESENT danger (or they were doing it in the past), not against something what nobody knows if it ever happens.

The evidence is there, and say whatever you like, the consensus exists in the scientific community.

The consensus exists?? Open your eyes! Many scientists are saying that the researches should be approached generally - to find out if this exaggerated climate change really exists or it's just a matter of a few years, if yes (if it exists), to find out ALL the causes of it etc., not only to confirm what many populists are saying! And many so-called researches are approached only to this "confirmation". Why these scientists gain a lot of money from the goverments for their "research" and those who are oposing gain nothing?
I'm a bit dissappointed by the Nobel committee. This decision evokes me those yea-saying people who just nod their head without rational thinking of it

Again, it is the politicisisation of topics such as these which make people lose sight of the real issues.

Yes, exactly. Especially those who believe to one side of it or the other. I don't believe to those who are saying that there is a huge climate change and thus almost persuading people that we're dying out, on the other hand I don't believe to those who are saying that nothing's happening. I'll start to trust to someone when he (whoever it'll be) explain me what's really going on and give me CONVICTIVE evidence for it. Nobody has done it yet.

Well, I started to be a little hungry. I think I'll go to buy something. Nice feeling to know that you can go to the shop without any risk of your life and that there IS some shop. Billions of people can't do that. But who knows, maybe they would be happy if they knew that the Nobel Peace Price won someone who is fighting agains something what will maybe happen when the're pushing up daisies, rather than somebody who's helping THEM NOW .

[browneyedgirl]

Yeah, damn irrational, childish, ungovernable, bloodthirsty and sex-addicted Arabs!

Sex-addicted my ass! They hate MaDonna&Britney Spears!

Who said anything about Arabs?

[NeonVomit]

The consensus exists??

Yup.

Well, as far as the Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias Brazil, Académie des Sciences France, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei Italy, Russian Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Sciences, United States of America, Royal Society of Canada, Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, Science Council of Japan, Academy of Science of South Africa, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Indian National Science Academy, Academia Mexicana de Ciencias and Royal Society, United Kingdom can be trusted.

But what do they know about anything!

[Carcass]

Yeah, damn irrational, childish, ungovernable, bloodthirsty and sex-addicted Arabs!

Sex-addicted my ass! They hate MaDonna&Britney Spears!

Who said anything about Arabs?

Me.

(The stereotype is that Arabs are sex addicted with their harems and stuff. I hate Britney too )

[NeonVomit]

Sex-addicted my ass! They hate MaDonna&Britney Spears!

I hate them too. Well Britney more, at least Madonna has some talent and PR savvy.

Does that mean I'm an Arab?

[NeonVomit]

Wow.

Anyway. Watch this. The best explaination of the situation I've seen so far. Not of the actual science, but the ways to approach the issue as a guy in the street.

[black death]

The consensus exists??

Yup.

Well, as far as the Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias Brazil, Académie des Sciences France, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei Italy, Russian Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Sciences, United States of America, Royal Society of Canada, Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, Science Council of Japan, Academy of Science of South Africa, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Indian National Science Academy, Academia Mexicana de Ciencias and Royal Society, United Kingdom can be trusted.

But what do they know about anything!

Statements of national science academies (whatever name they have) don't mean that every single scientist agrees with them, nor it means that every single scientist who belongs to the relative academy agrees. It just says that MAJORITY agrees (at least majority in mentioned states). Question is if it's not only very loud minority .

Anyway, majority is NOT the same thing as consensus!

Defending the scientific consensus from vested interests.

A bit strange slogan, isn't it?

[Carcass]

Name one scientific theory over which there is total consensus... exactly, you can't because there are no such theories! Some scientists (or at least that's what they call themselves) still today think the Earth was created 6000 years ago.

[stratobabius]

Besides, if there was total consensus they would be called facts, not theories.

[browneyedgirl]

Yeah, damn irrational, childish, ungovernable, bloodthirsty and sex-addicted Arabs!

Sex-addicted my ass! They hate MaDonna&Britney Spears!

Who said anything about Arabs?

Me.

(The stereotype is that Arabs are sex addicted with their harems and stuff. I hate Britney too )

Poor Britney.

@Carcass, like I said, what do the Arabs have to do with the NPP, Glbal warming&Al ore? Except a big chunk of the worlds oil does come from the Arab region which is supposedly the cause of the glbal warming situation. Fossil fuels.

Food for thought: Mahatma Ghandi was nominated for the Peace prize several times, but was never chosen. Ghandi deserved to win, IMO.