A DEFINITE DECISION? ???

[browneyedgirl]

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... emID=99258

I actually know that they will not continue as Stratovarius. And I think it is the right choice for them.
They can still play the Strato songs they prefer, but the band will not be Stratovarius and that's why
I think they made the right choice.
---------------------------------
This was a direct quote from RR Forum from TT.

[R.F.]

Well, Tolkki may be informed of something, but we`d better wait for the guys to tell everything themselves. I think there is possibility that TT is bluffing, he had made himself such a reputation. If you remember. he had already said this earlier on RR forum, but that time it turned to be a lie.

[tennent's]

That's just what TOLKKI says. As Jens wrote, "all solutions are still on the table".
I am very attached to Stratovarius monicker and I hope they are going to use it (...even though it's maybe better a change of name than a legal fight with delayed cd...).

[R.F.]

That's just what TOLKKI says. As Jens wrote, "all solutions are still on the table".
I am very attached to Stratovarius monicker and I hope they are going to use it (...even though it's maybe better a change of name than a legal fight with delayed cd...).

Everyone is attached. I think, many fans will be lost for them if they change the name. Maybe in such case they even wan`t have any reason to stay in a one band together.
If we think logically, Tolkki can have not only a moral interest in Stratovarius not continuing under this name. It is advantageous for him to promote RR with so called "Strato legacy" - you may see the slogan on their MySpace page. But it`s strange to use this legacy when the original Stratovarius still exists. That`s why Tolkki is insisting on changing the name. And, I`ll repeat myself, his altruistic waiver of rights was a show off, a grandstand play with the only purpose - to make guys to give up the Stratovarius name. But that time Jens and others did not answer these provocations. What about now, I wonder. Well, this is how I see this all.

[tennent's]

It is advantageous for him to promote RR with so called "Strato legacy" - you may see the slogan on their MySpace page. But it`s strange to use this legacy when the original Stratovarius still exists. That`s why Tolkki is insisting on changing the name.

Well, I know many people thinking that "Helloween legacy" is Gamma Ray (I do not). Tolkki could have his own "Strato-legacy" even if Jens and other guys use the name. Simply, there will be different opinions and (perhaps) divided fans as in the Helloween-Hansen affair...amen.

[icecab21]

Since gammaray and helloween are on tour together and play songs together on each others sets that would be really fun if in a while revolution renaissance has a tour with stratovarius/new name

[KilledByDETH]

i really think we should wait for either tolkki or jens, and the rest of the guys to make a statement about this, i really dont like the idea of Official news from that crap site blabbermouth.

[stratohawk]

"Statement" is the faux-pas word of the year anyways....

[MikeWacho]

or "last statement"

or "waiver"

or gift...

[browneyedgirl]

i really think we should wait for either tolkki or jens, and the rest of the guys to make a statement about this, i really dont like the idea of Official news from that crap site blabbermouth.

The news in the Original Post is a direct quote from Tolkki, not from Blabbermouth.
Can't you read?

ANOTHER QUOTE fROM TIMO TOLKKI:
FROM RR FORUM.

I find it very interesting to hear you sing an a metal album again!
Is there any song written for this already?
It´s gonna be a 20 years anniversary album! Fright night was released 1989!

No, I am writing songs for the RR album full steam. The last Stratovarius album will be composed together with Tuomo and Antti sometime next year when we all have the time. For me and Tuomo it will be 25 years anniversary since I joined 1984! It's a good way to stop. How it was started and not use the name for something it is not morally appropriate for.

[KilledByDETH]

i really think we should wait for either tolkki or jens, and the rest of the guys to make a statement about this, i really dont like the idea of Official news from that crap site blabbermouth.

The news in the Original Post is a direct quote from Tolkki, not from Blabbermouth.
Can't you read?

ANOTHER QUOTE fROM TIMO TOLKKI:
FROM RR FORUM.

I find it very interesting to hear you sing an a metal album again!
Is there any song written for this already?
It´s gonna be a 20 years anniversary album! Fright night was released 1989!

No, I am writing songs for the RR album full steam. The last Stratovarius album will be composed together with Tuomo and Antti sometime next year when we all have the time. For me and Tuomo it will be 25 years anniversary since I joined 1984! It's a good way to stop. How it was started and not use the name for something it is not morally appropriate for.

you can say whatever you want, but its still from blabbermouth, and its just a another tabloid website.

[miditek]

If Tolkki would simply put even half of the effort into quality (rather than derivative and self parodying) songwriting , intelligent arrangements, and keep his well known production skills up to par, etc. (not to mention getting along with his bandmates) that he does into prefabricated dramatics and theatrical stunts, then it's quite likely he could release an album that would impress even his growing legion of critics- as well as his ever dwindling fan base.

Most people like good music, and very few are impressed with drama. For the rest though, there's always the National Enquirer and Blabbermouth.

Just my $0.02 though-

[icecab21]

lets keep with the good music theme and stop speculating and accusing without evidence.

[browneyedgirl]

i really think we should wait for either tolkki or jens, and the rest of the guys to make a statement about this, i really dont like the idea of Official news from that crap site blabbermouth.

The news in the Original Post is a direct quote from Tolkki, not from Blabbermouth.
Can't you read?

ANOTHER QUOTE fROM TIMO TOLKKI:
FROM RR FORUM.

I find it very interesting to hear you sing an a metal album again!
Is there any song written for this already?
It´s gonna be a 20 years anniversary album! Fright night was released 1989!

No, I am writing songs for the RR album full steam. The last Stratovarius album will be composed together with Tuomo and Antti sometime next year when we all have the time. For me and Tuomo it will be 25 years anniversary since I joined 1984! It's a good way to stop. How it was started and not use the name for something it is not morally appropriate for.

you can say whatever you want, but its still from blabbermouth, and its just a another tabloid website.

You STILL don't understand, do you? The article was posted by Tolkki FIRST, on his RR Forum BEFORE it was on Blabbermouth. Is that clear enough for you or do I have to draw you a picture? All that came from TT first 2 days BEFORE it got to Blabbermouth.
If TT posted it on his Forum I don't call that speculating, do you?

[black death]

All that came from TT first 2 days BEFORE it got to Blabbermouth.
If TT posted it on his Forum I don't call that speculating, do you?

Why not? TT is changing his statements day by day. I want to see when the other guys say something.

[browneyedgirl]

All that came from TT first 2 days BEFORE it got to Blabbermouth.
If TT posted it on his Forum I don't call that speculating, do you?

Why not? TT is changing his statements day by day.

I know. I know. Lord only knows what TT is going to come up with next!

[Metal-Carlos]

Maybe Tolky never ask Lasila ? He only tell lies many time! I not believe him anymore.

[icecab21]

By speculating I’m talking about every here saying everything is lies before they have evidence. Where is the evidence that it is lies? Do you know everything that is going on behind the scenes? If yes do tell the entire contract and contact information, if not, stop calling everything a lie when you don’t know for fact.

[StratoHeart]

At this point, the guys have not yet decided whether to continue using the name STRATOVARIUS for their new band. Some of the members want to, some of them don't, and for some of them it doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

They already don't agree each other... That's hilarious. Sooner we'll cry another split!

Now they have all the rights over the Stratovarius name. Using the name or not, it doesn't make difference. Again and again it's a matter of money.

[browneyedgirl]

By speculating I’m talking about every here saying everything is lies before they have evidence. Where is the evidence that it is lies? Do you know everything that is going on behind the scenes? If yes do tell the entire contract and contact information, if not, stop calling everything a lie when you don’t know for fact.

Icecab21, you are an active member of RR Forum, and you know it is true that Tolkki posted what I copied&pasted. I copied it verbatim. Over&Over everyone was so suportive and happy with their replies to the news it may be a "older member" Strato Reunion.
Matter of fact you had a lengthy "conversation" with Tolkki about the whole thing:

______________________________


 Revolution Renaissance Official Fan Forum->Free Area->Questions to Timo
 
 About Tuomo and Antti
Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic Season_of_Change
Posted: Jun 21 2008, 05:05 PM
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Joined: 24-April 08
How they accepted your call about a new last album? Are they still into music business?
Timo Tolkki
Posted: Jun 21 2008, 06:39 PM
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Posts: 234
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Joined: 22-April 08
QUOTE (Season_of_Change @ Jun 21 2008, 10:05 PM)How they accepted your call about a new last album? Are they still into music business? I dont know anybody who is "into music business". It is the most shittiest business that exists.
Much speculated "firing" of Tuomo and Antti in 1995 was actually done with fairly mutual understanding. They both understood that they were playing music that they didnt like and that the music was evolving to a direction they certainly didnt like. Early Strato was very different. I just remembered funny thing..about 5 years ago I met Tuomo in a club and I was very drunk. I went to him and bought him a drink and we talked about things. Suddenly I said, man I am going to call you in some years and we will make one more album together..now remembering that, it feels pretty scary..
icecab21
Posted: Jun 21 2008, 07:15 PM
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Posts: 96
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Joined: 22-May 08
Does it really count as being fired when there is a change in life and musical direction? Maybe it's in the words we use but it sounds to me like a mutual decision to the benefit and advantage of all parties. It seems people like to make a controversy out of things and want band members to stay the course no matter what the band chemistry is or their personal feeling towards each other or the music. I am really looking forward to hearing what you all come up with for this reunion project. Cheers to drunken bar talk.
--------------------
My music project
Timo Tolkki
Posted: Jun 21 2008, 09:31 PM
Advanced Member
Group: Admin
Posts: 234
Member No.: 9
Joined: 22-April 08
QUOTE (icecab21 @ Jun 22 2008, 12:15 AM)Does it really count as being fired when there is a change in life and musical direction? Maybe it's in the words we use but it sounds to me like a mutual decision to the benefit and advantage of all parties. It seems people like to make a controversy out of things and want band members to stay the course no matter what the band chemistry is or their personal feeling towards each other or the music. I am really looking forward to hearing what you all come up with for this reunion project. Cheers to drunken bar talk. It seems to count to those people that are on a mission to make me to be somekind of Devil although they do not know all the facts about things or say that I am lying. That is part of the reason this book about me is being written. It will straighten up some of the worse rumors about me backed up by evidence.
icecab21
Posted: Jun 21 2008, 10:26 PM
Advanced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 96
Member No.: 166
Joined: 22-May 08
Since everyone has their moments and environments where they don't act their best, it's rather small scale for a band to not always be in perfect harmony. When we have people using power to manipulate and control the lives of others in this world I can hardly see how it would be worth being angry about musicians needing a change of scenery because they no longer are going in the same creative direction. If there's really anything to focus on it's the world's distribution of resources and values and how we can connect each other to a point to at least prevent mutual destruction. It seems people are brought up to have a strange sense of perception and value system where they are happy to make conclusions without evidence and without looking at multiple views and possibilities. This book will be interesting and please make sure there are a lot of funny stories and share some magical moments.
--------------------
END OF CONVERSATION

If Tolkki is telling the truth about the "Reunion" Album, I'll be the first in line to buy it. If he is bluffing, then I guess we will all find out soon enough. Right?

"Speculating" is not illegal and "big deal" if people do it. That what happens when a person, anyone, is "famous."No one is totally a "sacred cow" in this world.

@KilledbyDETH, Mr. Know-it-all,"certain people" as you call them have the right to post whatever...... if you do not like it, don't read it. On this forum it has always been acceptable to diss God, blaspheme Jesus, bash Christianity&religion in general. Never mind how people feel. But, OMFG, just mention controversy about certain band members and some people go bonkers!

Yeah, sweep everything under the rug, bury it, and disregard reality. Thats what seems to have led to these band problems to begin with.

[icecab21]

Perhaps we should have subsections of the forum. one for people that want to enjoy the music and have band members all in environments they feel serves their lives, another for people to get around in a group and call people crazy liars, and one for posting information and updates. that way people can go as they please and have a not to mixed energy to the forums.

[R.F.]

If Tolkki is telling the truth about the "Reunion" Album, I'll be the first in line to buy it. If he is bluffing, then I guess we will all find out soon enough. Right?

Unfortunately, the question is not whether Tolkki is bluffing or not about that album. I am pretty sure that if he wants so, he will release it. He is simply a big guy in that business and can do everything. The question is about the TT`s motives to do this and the moral side - and his actions really look more like another show off, an attempt to become the owner of the last word..)
Well, the so called "public" of course will "eat" it with pleasure - they defaultly like everything signed by Tolkki or Stratovarius. Very pity that there are so many people like this, you know, some posts on RR forum for example used to make burst out with laughter... But what we see if we get rid from that stupid "fan point of view"? In general we see that TT obviously lying - at least partly, at least in some little points. And he did not answer some of accusations, that is a minus to his repuatation as well. But he promises to answer it in that book. If it will be so, it is good. But now the only thing we can do now is speculating - one of the reasons what net forums are made for =) I think it is much more... hmmm... interesting than just awaiting for a new product by Tolkki or Stratovarius. Actually there are lots of such products released every day and if we think objectively they do not differ from Strato that much as fans like to say. We have to have a reason to distinguish =)

[icecab21]

we will see what he writes about when they make the songs. if the lyrics go


“I’m a mad man
This is my hour
I’m a crazy liar
Revenge is my plan
I must have power
evil is my desire
I live for the limelight
Worship my feet at night
I have sold my soul
My intentions have gone afoul
"

Then we will know his motives were not the best.

Something not turning out to be correct in the long run does not make it a lie. For it to be a lie someone has to know the truth and willingly say something that is a known false. Everyone has lied and is guilty of moral lapses. I enjoy a percentage some of tolkkis material and I can't see how nonmusical actions should affect how I view the music that I enjoy. Since I can’t see it for me I wonder why it does for others, with my bias id rather see things my way but that’s just what works for me. as far as other music being similar, for me it’s the differences that count and the vocals are the difference on music and the only part that cannot be emulated ( depending on singing style) I’ve seen a lot of vocalists be called copycats in reviews and objectively, since they can’t emulate, they aren’t.

[hiro23]

I personaly will wait and see what the bandmembers do, actions will speak louder then words

[RazielSR]

You're Gonna Go Far, Kid - The Offspring



Show me how to lie
You’re getting better all the time
And turning all against the one
Is an art that’s hard to teach
Another clever word
Sets off an unsuspecting herd
And as you get back into line
A mob jumps to their feet

Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, he never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

And now you steal away
Take him out today
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Slowly out of line
And drifting closer in your sights
So play it out I’m wide awake
It’s a scene about me
There’s something in your way
And now someone is gonna pay
And if you can’t get what you want
Well it’s all because of me

Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, I never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

And now you’ll lead the way
Show the light of day
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid
Trust, deceived!

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Now dance, fucker, dance
He never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

So dance, fucker, dance
I never had a chance
It was really only you

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Clever alibis
Lord of the flies
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

[R.F.]

Then we will know his motives were not the best.

You think the art really reflects what kind of man the creator is? It is not obvious, there are lots of examples, especially in music, especially now when it is business. After Pushkin was killed in a duel one of his censors said: "Actually he was a great poet, but he was a son of a bitch as well". Only TT himself can reveal his motives, but actually he doesn`t need it, `cause his albums are still selling well. To respect him or not is our problem to think about)

I enjoy a percentage some of tolkkis material and I can't see how nonmusical actions should affect how I view the music that I enjoy.

Agree) Actually, I liked your point of view from the very beginning, but just to contemplate the situation keeping the mind in peace - as for me, frankly speaking, it would have been too boring I have to confess, this is just because I`m a journalist by profession and thus subconsciously seek and take part in contoversial situations like this =) But anyway, isn`t this the reason forums are created for? It is not like simple forum is equal to Roman Forum, a prototype of modern parliament, our opinions are not much and TT and guys do need to read them. But it is place where it is free to declare any opinion you like. Than what is the interest to come to the forum and write something like "the new album is sooo damn good. tolkkis solos are BRILLIANT" or so?)) The level of new information in such posts is zero So, why not to talk about who is lying amd why everything is so bad in the Stratokingdom?) Isn`t it simply interestng?)) This is also an answer to this:

All of this to say you people have a strange and f*cking need to discuss about all Tolkki is saying or not...Why just simply don't give up it all and let the both sides decide by themselves. They are enough mature and intelligent to administrate all those facts...No need to add some bad jokes or to joke about Tolkki's illness. That's just disrespectful and I can't agree with all of that. TT is a nice guy as all the other guys, I mean TK, JM, JJ and LP.

[icecab21]

Well I’m just going from some of the lyrics that I have seen in tolkkis material that some of the songs have been personal and have followed his personal mindset and philosophy. Some of the songs are about how he has felt at one point or another in life. Maniac dance and angel being two different examples. For me to have motives of revenge a person could only put negative energy into the art and lyrics. or I guess we could play with the way we call someone revenge and include positive acts towards others and self as revenge and assume that the rest of the guys are get pain in seeing someone help others. Good things can come of resentment of others actions, but I would not call a good intention or act an act of revenge.

I’ll take bad motives or good motives anyway long as it gives me another original member stratovarius album. Whatever the feelings are the more that get put into this record the better. Everyone has certain clashes with others and has environments where they turn to asshole mode and well as everyone has their environments and circus stances where they are of positive character. Some of my favorite stuff is from people being in asshole mode as well as some when in positive character mode.

Ok journalism, depends on what type lol, the investigative connect each other together for peace and understanding or at least to help prevent future wrongs, or commercial value speculation journalism. It’s much funnier to read about speculative negative when it’s done with parody and satire, Or if it’s real journalism and serves the purpose of being objective and brings factual background from first hand investigation. Since people like to use over simplification it might as well be used with fun writing by suggesting outrageous possibilities
.

[Burning Reflection]

^ I like the discussion you guys are having. I'm going to refer to Freud's theory of the ego and super ego. I think Timo's doing a good job satisfying his ego by conforming to the norms of the business world and record company while also satisfying his super ego by sticking to his art and ideals. Keeping personal integrity and staying true to yourself in the business world is a never ending battle and sometimes you have to withhold the truth from yourself and others in order to satisfy the ego. The fans, previous band members, art, and music companies are all seperate entitys that have seperate needs that need to be satisfied and personally, I think Timo's doing a good job balancing his business life and art.

[AGAG]

Come on! Where's the hatred??? It went away so fast...




j/k
Let's just think about music and forget about legal crap. Both sides are composing so just let's just let them work so we can hear nice albums!.

[Verdades Parias]

THE DIFFERENCE OF THE TWO FORUMS, IS THAT WE LIKE DISCUSSION, i don't feel a "mood" in a FORUM, there's not such thing as "health standars of fans forum's state" If people think that is inmature to have differences and express them in a forum....well, so I'm a "teenager".
I feel free here...