Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:54 am

icecab21 wrote:(Some misrepresentation coming up so just have fun with it lol)

I have a hard time believing that anyone’s ultimate goal would just be to collect currency as an ends. I have never heard of someone doing something without passion just for the sake of doing it without heart as an ends. To me that takes a maso passion so it’s still a higher goal than just the currency. To me money is a resource to be traded for another resource. One value traded for another value. Let’s take the song girls just want to have fun. Cindy just wanted to have fun, that’s all she really wanted, when the working day is done. im sure fun was part of the writer's goal as well. have yet to hear someone say "i'm having fun but my heart is not in this fun having". now if she is not having fun singing it, but sings it because she wants to have fun, that does not make it simply money oriented to me.
That's right, there are two types of music (and some intermediate levels) when your final and only goal is to gain a lot of money and you just use music as a tool to achieve that goal (A.K.A.: pop music) and when the final goal is to "have fun" or to express yourself or whatever name you wish to call it and you gain money (Of course because you need it for a living) but you don't use the whole cash you just earned to please your stupid and money-hungry being and use an amount to continue with your self-expression (A.K.A: metal, rock, and many other things.)

Of course when your goal is to gain a lot of money you have to do something good in order to sell it... because of that we see many "good" pop songs (I agree some of them are kind of acceptable) but when we listen to a radio hit let's just remember: money created that.

When you do something by heart, what you produce will be good and it will not sell as good as pop music, why? because it's goal wasn't money it was self-expression... etc. hence only a few people will understand your objectives and support you. (What we see in the metal scene)

And... that's it...
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:16 am

A lot of popular songs are a mix of heartfelt topics and music that is written to be melodic and highly accessible. One of the reasons tolkki said he left and what I think is the most important thing about why he left stratovarius is because he said he did not feel the personal feelings necessary to continue on with the rest of the band. That his performances were not for the love of being together as a group but as more of an obligation. I think he and the rest of the band members deserve an atmosphere where they can all have their tight groups full of chemistry that lasts. Tolkkis chemistry with the rest of the guys was turning into a on again off again relationship and they all deserve better than that and they all can make better music without that sort of environment. With saana tolkki has said that the project is deeply personal and important to him and his values, people don’t need to like the music but I would like it if it got respected more than some of the comments I have read about it. The same goes for kiske as he has said that he is only doing music that he enjoys.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:27 am

Yes, if you do what you like and have fun while doing it, it will not be money-based crap; nowadays Almost every pop song it's money based (Just listen some of the most famous music nowadays) that's why I said "pop" when reffering to money-based music, but remember there are always some exceptions... I can't distinguish between crap-based pop and heart-based pop though... there must be a way...

And I completely support what you said about tolkki, if he had continued with Strato, I'm pretty sure all the music we would have heard would be crap... because he would have composed just for money, not because he was actually enjoying music...
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:51 am

The hard part is when the musicians do what they love or feel better doing and then do have people just focus on how they would like it a different way or deny the feelings of the musicians. The whole trying to speak for others intentions thing bugs me and I don’t like it. I’m guilty of that too sometimes and have good moments and bad moments. There are so many ways to listen to a song or perform a song that I think non heart felt music has more to do with the way it’s performed than the song itself. I also get myself into that grew area of what makes a song a song. I like making piano versions of songs and to me it’s the same song with just a different performance and arrangement.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:01 am

Of course, people (Nearly everyone) can't appreciate what music really is, that's why just some people like classical, metal, rock... they just listen what has the better rythm and the easiest or simple (Crappy) lyrics...

That's why many real artists suffer hunger and poverty, they are not really comprehended by regular people, on the other hand we need those regular poeple to follow the "mainstream", because real music is not meant to be popular, it's meant to be really appreciated (People don't really appreciate crappy music, they just listen to it because it sounds good)...

Feelings on the other hand are really subjective, you can't really tell if a singer is faking the pain he is expressing...
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by eagledreamr » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:17 am

My impressions over this debate...
To me pop musicis not all crappy. I mean, the singer finds a cool and easy to listen melody, fun lyrics, and a 3min nice song is born. I know, in America, pop can be very badly seen (and I guess if I were an American I wouldn't say those things, I mean, you have Britney Spears and Paris Hilton), but in Europe you can find nice stuff. And some artists make pop not just for the money, but for the pop of their little fun music ( Renan Luce, Benabar, Manolo García...).
Kiske is another problem. Yesterday I read an interview of him, and I was just shoked once again! It's not about pop or mainstream mentality, it's about "let's fight metal but make money with what I used to sing".
There comes the metal part of my post.
It would be great to say that metal is totally anti commercialism and that the artists only make it for the love of music. 80% do. But, at least in France, we have seen a new wave of metal wanabees who just make """metal""" because it looks cool to be dressed in black and play guitar. That's why we should fight for real metal (of any kind), not fight amongst metal lovers for stupid reasons, to prove the genre can live forever...(cliché sentence, but so true...!)
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:17 pm

A genre can be qualified by the majority's stand so if 80% of metal music is heart-based, then metal is heart-based, the same with pop... I think.
Although we have to consider the exceptions, we can say that money motivates pop more than anything else...

I would have to listen europe's pop to say if it's not crappy but I beleive you, there must be good pop somewhere... :)

btw, the genre will live until the sun freezes, even after some time that happens, our dead bodies will be listening "Will my soul ever rest in peace?" :D

good night
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:43 pm

From the kiske in interviews that I have read he has said that he thinks that have music does not help his soul. On that last album where he made acoustic versions of his helloween songs he said it was healing and made him re appreciate something from an earlier time. He also said that he did not make any money off of it. So I will have to see this interview where he said he wants to fight metal. People that lived before amplifiers and distortion would have been fucked if they had an opinion like heavy or nothing or something. Acoustic music is natural music. For me a song with a good message should be melody based and have music geared towards spreading the message. I’d much rather the songs that were positive are the ones that were macro geared and the negative songs the ones that got geared towards a micro audience

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by eagledreamr » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:05 pm

Well he doesn't say "fight metal", but I kinda hate what he says...
http://www.metalsymphony.com/index.php? ... e&sid=3308
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:42 pm

The guy has tunnel vision and oversimplifies. The whole genre thing is so grey to me. When I read that I gather that his problem is when people don’t respect others for their beliefs and feelings. Some people are way too focused on bashing, violence, and negativity and I think kiske has that view of metal instead of a more multidimensional view. Some metal people are the most one dimension people out there though so he is right about some but not all. To me music is about doing what you feel and enjoying it by yourself and if there are others that enjoy it too than good. There are so many different kinds and ways to listen and create music. There are so many dimensions and ways to look at the world that it’s a sad irony when people a pigeon hole things or oversimplify and can lose some of the meaning and connections and beauty that can happen. I guess the main thing is that we all have our own views on a concept and each of us is one of a kind.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by Babylon » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:34 am

icecab21 wrote:The guy has tunnel vision and oversimplifies. The whole genre thing is so grey to me. When I read that I gather that his problem is when people don’t respect others for their beliefs and feelings. Some people are way too focused on bashing, violence, and negativity and I think kiske has that view of metal instead of a more multidimensional view. Some metal people are the most one dimension people out there though so he is right about some but not all. To me music is about doing what you feel and enjoying it by yourself and if there are others that enjoy it too than good. There are so many different kinds and ways to listen and create music. There are so many dimensions and ways to look at the world that it’s a sad irony when people a pigeon hole things or oversimplify and can lose some of the meaning and connections and beauty that can happen. I guess the main thing is that we all have our own views on a concept and each of us is one of a kind.
Yes, I agree. I think he refers to the more close minded metal fans who can't appreciate other kinds of music or call a band or a musician "sell-outs" when they try something different. I remember people even slamming on Helloween when "If I Could Fly" came out...

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:44 am

well since last night i was watching americas got talent and david hasselhoff is one of the judges so i decided to take the trip into seeing what his songs sounded like. i found this song called everybody sunshine, i cant stop laughing it makes me happy.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=j6ggTcfz7X8
Pretty much one of the funniest things ever

it's the hoff... nuff said

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by MetalAngel » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:37 am

icecab21 wrote:well since last night i was watching americas got talent and david hasselhoff is one of the judges so i decided to take the trip into seeing what his songs sounded like. i found this song called everybody sunshine, i cant stop laughing it makes me happy.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=j6ggTcfz7X8
Pretty much one of the funniest things ever

it's the hoff... nuff said
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the video! That's really ridiculous! :D Unfortunately, in the music industry there are more bad singers than good ones, except in metal where singers are the best ones! :) See Kotipelto is a mountain of talent. :)
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:25 am

i'd love to see what kotipeto could do with a song like heart of steel. for some extra fun i'll add pleasure slave to that as well. but hearing the hoff sing pleasure slave would be the best thing ever

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by eagledreamr » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:34 am

I just found this:
TIMO TOLKKI's REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE To Demo New Material In September

Read the whole article here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=101031
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:51 pm

eagledreamr wrote:I just found this:
TIMO TOLKKI's REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE To Demo New Material In September

Read the whole article here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=101031
YAY! :beer:
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by eagledreamr » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:43 pm

with the whole line-up, and tour information!

what stroke me is the 4-album deal... :?
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:57 pm

eagledreamr wrote:with the whole line-up, and tour information!

what stroke me is the 4-album deal... :?
Very optimistic, indeed! :D
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by eagledreamr » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:02 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:
eagledreamr wrote:with the whole line-up, and tour information!

what stroke me is the 4-album deal... :?
Very optimistic, indeed! :D
Indeed!
we don't even know what will happen both with RR and Strato in the next 6 months, and they plan 4 albums (3 left).
I hope for them they will manage this challenge...
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:10 pm

eagledreamr wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:
eagledreamr wrote:with the whole line-up, and tour information!

what stroke me is the 4-album deal... :?
Very optimistic, indeed! :D
Indeed!
we don't even know what will happen both with RR and Strato in the next 6 months, and they plan 4 albums (3 left).
I hope for them they will manage this challenge...
Maybe at JVC Victor there is a Japanese version of the Sopranos who will make it possible! :D
>joke<
They will be very busy, thats for certain!
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by Mormegil » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:25 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:Maybe at JVC Victor there is a Japanese version of the Sopranos who will make it possible! :D
Yakuza? :P

Not sure what to think about the new versions of old Strato-songs, but this sounds really interesting. I really hope (and I might be the only one) they will continue the style of New Era, classic heavy metal-esque power metal.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:25 pm

well if they sense something not going right then i think they should pump em out like elements before things go wrong

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by black death » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:06 pm

eagledreamr wrote:I just found this:
TIMO TOLKKI's REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE To Demo New Material In September

Read the whole article here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=101031
We'll finally hear first Revolution Renaissance material. New Era is more STRATOREVOLUTION :?

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AGAG » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:30 pm

black death wrote:
eagledreamr wrote:I just found this:
TIMO TOLKKI's REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE To Demo New Material In September

Read the whole article here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=101031
We'll finally hear first Revolution Renaissance material. New Era is more STRATOREVOLUTION :?
No it's more like "Forget strato, this is the real deal" :D

I like that "central america tour" thingy...
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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by Burning Reflection » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:44 pm

I wonder why Tolkki decided to tame the solos so much for the final recording. The demo's guitar solos had a lot more to them; I really liked heros' guitar solo on the demo instead of that rehashed "against the wind" solo on the final recording for example.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:50 pm

Hopefully they unleash the beast on the next stuff. There’s lots of coulds and shoulds so for me at least it’s best to appreciate what is there and appreciate the demos as well. That’s also where making the song your own and the way you want to hear it comes in handy. That whole find your own voice and walk to your own song kind of thing. Its not what the song can do for you but what you can do for the song.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by Babylon » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:59 am

eagledreamr wrote:I just found this:
TIMO TOLKKI's REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE To Demo New Material In September

Read the whole article here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=101031
I don't see the point in re-recording Stratovarius songs...

"taking the listener straight back to the 'Visions'-era STRATOVARIUS "

This writer is full of shit.... New Era is nowhere near that IMO.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:13 am

the writer has a sense of humor or has the the same disease that makes people call all of a bands songs the same or "sound alike" whatever those people have butchered and oversimplified the meaning to.

The point of rerecording stratovarius songs is most importantly, they feel like it, and secondly there are others that would like to hear the songs. The cool thing about it is that if someone does not want to hear it, they don't have to.

Since I like to hear any version of a song that I like possible, im looking forward to this.

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by Burning Reflection » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:00 pm

Stratovarius demo song is already offered as bonus track in Japan? Also, what's up with that guitar pick?

http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-RENAISSA ... otohosting

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Re: Stratovarius R... R... DEMO

Post by AMBR@BEC » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:33 pm

Burning Reflection wrote:Stratovarius demo song is already offered as bonus track in Japan? Also, what's up with that guitar pick?

http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-RENAISSA ... otohosting
Any chance you could assign a word to the link and hide the actual address so it doesn't run off the page? I hate having to use the scroll bar to read the entire forum.

It would look like this instead. Thus no long url address running off the page.

It's easy to do just put an = sign after the word url INSIDE the bracket [] at the beginning of the tag. Then put your word to use as a link outside the brackets. It would be like this word you are using Understand? if you mouse over the URL option when posting a reply you can see the instructions. Would really appreciate it.
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