Where is mr Tolkki????

[Stratowarius]

Can you imagine this Icecar. There are persons that are hoping to stand in court and pay a laaarge fee for being proved wrong in every sense just to demonstrate his moral and his right to stand there. If it wasn't so tragic it could almost be funny. A fight against windmills that noone could win

[icecab21]

I don’t thin being sued is in his wish list from Santa or what he wishes for when he sees a shooting star. He’d rather the guys just used a different name. he’s not using a thought process that I would advocate but he’s not doing anything that would put him on a list of the worlds most evil people or a embarrassment to humanity

[Stratowarius]

But you must admit that he puts all four of the others on the evillist and can you for ones try to think that he is WRONG there. They are maybe not so evil as he says and they are maybe only trying to make a living in a new band. Have you seen any sign from them that they really are going to use the name Stratovarius.

[icecab21]

Yes I think he is really lacking in faith and being rather insulting to them when he says that to continue would be fake and that it's not in the guys to create something that could fit into tolkkis image of the band. Yet when kotipelto's least favorite albums are the ones tolkki considered the peak of the band one has to wonder. hes just saying that they wont nurse his baby the way he would like it to be nursed.

[Stratowarius]

So why did he leave his precious baby with four childmolesters What a father

[Burning Reflection]

The music and lyrics may have been Tolkki's message, but I don't doubt the other member's capacity to send that same message if they wanted to...

[icecab21]

Yes. I don’t think the question of "who did you fuck to get that baby" would have gone over too well. He’s almost asking for the guys to put out a comedy album and fuck around with the name then sell it on eBay. Still he gave the name away; I would have kept something that means that much to me. His pessimism is only one part of him and there are good sides to everyone here. Now would it be as fun if he just did a kotipelto and kept silent. It’s online but being that I’m in America and they aren’t how the hell else could communication happen even if the communication does not follow what would happen under other communication mediums

[Stratowarius]

Que,Que,Que, I dont understand Icetruck. I'm flom Barcelona. My name is Manuel and I wolk on Fawlty Towers as a waiter. What you mean Communication and that you are in Amerika? You and I are almost the only ones that communicate here and I admire your persistens. You never give up do you? Mr Tolkki is almost perfect Do you never sleep????

[icecab21]

tolkkis human some great things and some fuck ups. i like his creative side and what happens when he writes music. there are simularitys and differences between our value systems and thought processes. it's not like im being venum on the others to defend tolkki, since most of what i say is a defence of something more general than just him. just as i dont think tolkki is being fair with some of the things he says i don't think people are being fair with some of the things they say about tolkki.

[hiro23]

The situation as it looks to me is this, Tolkki broke up the band he then shortly after released the rights to them saying that he didn't want anything to do with stratovarius anymore.

Finally a few weeks later he says he's doing a stratovarius album with the older members and TK,JJ and JM are not capable of making a stratovarius album.
Now I don't know about you but these do not look like the actions of a sane human being to me

[browneyedgirl]

The situation as it looks to me is this, Tolkki broke up the band he then shortly after released the rights to them saying that he didn't want anything to do with stratovarius anymore.

Finally a few weeks later he says he's doing a stratovarius album with the older members and TK,JJ and JM are not capable of making a stratovarius album.
Now I don't know about you but these do not look like the actions of a sane human being to me

Either that, or he is just kinda regretful about everything, what he did(decisions), the band breaking up&all. Those feelings are to be expected.
But, you summed it up exactly, hiro23.

As to Kotipelto, I can understand his silence. Maybe its the best thing to do right now. It would be nice to hear some news from Jens, but I think they are busy with the new Stratovarius album. Kotipelto had some shows this weekend, so he is carrying on just fine!

[icecab21]

What better to put insanity into than music? Being bipolar does not help him sound sane, from time to time he goes back to madness but at least its not madness strikes at midnight. Since he has stood by his words and actions here I think his doing what’s right in his world. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to expect the name to carry with it a certain philosophy and meaning and that makes me think that the rest of the guys will change their name. I mean if kotipelto did not like to sing a lot of the material that tolkki considers the message behind the name then why keep a name to go in a different musical and lyrical direction?

[RazielSR]

What a sad story all this Stratovarius story, what a sad story... How can we being here talking about all this things? Seems unreal.

Imagine, imagine us just for a moment talking about the new Stratovarius album they announced a long time ago and having fun together as a good friends.

Wheel of the time
Turns again tonight
Eternally decides our destiny
Wheel of the time
Turns again tonight
Without reason or rhyme

The hands of time

[browneyedgirl]

What better to put insanity into than music? Being bipolar does not help him sound sane, from time to time he goes back to madness but at least its not madness strikes at midnight. Since he has stood by his words and actions here I think his doing what’s right in his world. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to expect the name to carry with it a certain philosophy and meaning and that makes me think that the rest of the guys will change their name. I mean if kotipelto did not like to sing a lot of the material that tolkki considers the message behind the name then why keep a name to go in a different musical and lyrical direction?

Man, you are obsessed with the guys NOT using the Stratovarius name. If they want to use it, they have every right to do so, and what the heck are you going to do about it if the guys use the Statovarius name? Its THEIRS to use if they choose to, whether you like it or not! And, Whether Tolkki likes it or not the Stratovarius name is THEIRS--TK, JJ, JM, LP.
On the other hand, if they are more or less pressured into changing their name in order to please a few Tolkki-apologists, or shut TT up, then thats OK, too. The music is what matters, and the 4 remaining guys will always be Stratovarius in our hearts.

[icecab21]

Yes if my flying pigeons of doom don’t kill them and my rats of destruction fail I’m going to become a suicide bomber if they use the name. I just think that if they use it I think that come with some reasponsibity to the past. They have the name and should do great things with it and will do great things with it or without it. Some managers own the trademarks to some band names so it would be fun to see some revived with a different set up members and songwriting style.

[Mörkö]

TT: You cant really compare one album to their situation in which they
are continuing the band with most likely many years as Stratovarius. I am just demonstrating my point with one album and by definition a following courtcase that the idea of continuing as Stratovarius is morally wrong to me. And the issue of greediness. These are my thoughts and opinions and as I have said Stratovarius has been my vision and my baby.

I belive he is here admitting the real reason he announced this Tolkki/ Lassila/ Ikonen Stratovarius record. He is trying to demonstrate a point. It's not a realistic idea, either artistically or practically.

Artistically because a) Lassila and Ikonen were ruthlessly fired for musical reasons. And b) making an album just to demonstrate a legal and moral point is not a valid artistic starting point (especially when you are completely wrong about the moral and legal point)

Practically because a) they were fired and may not give Tolkki the time of day b) he didn't even ask them if they were interested, and c) no label would touch this project due to the legal situation with the band name.

[Mörkö]

He’s almost asking for the guys to put out a comedy album and fuck around with the name then sell it on eBay. Still he gave the name away; I would have kept something that means that much to me.

I happen to know what the direction the new material is taking, and believe me when I say the "new Stratovarius" album will not be a comedy album.

It will be highly melodic symphonic power metal with intelligent lyrics. If you worry that they would be so stupid that they change style into death metal, or start having crappy or meaningless lyrics, you will be happily surprised.

What Tolkki is scared of, is not the name and concept of "his baby" being dragged in the mud, via some non spiritual message.

He is scared of it being such a good album, and of the band being so successful (without him), that he and Revolution Renaissance are eclipsed.

[browneyedgirl]

He’s almost asking for the guys to put out a comedy album and fuck around with the name then sell it on eBay. Still he gave the name away; I would have kept something that means that much to me.

I happen to know what the direction the new material is taking, and believe me when I say the "new Stratovarius" album will not be a comedy album.

It will be highly melodic symphonic power metal with intelligent lyrics. If you worry that they would be so stupid that they change style into death metal, or start having crappy or meaningless lyrics, you will be happily surprised.

What Tolkki is scared of, is not the name and concept of "his baby" being dragged in the mud, via some non spiritual message.

He is scared of it being such a good album, and of the band being so successful (without him), that he and Revolution Renaissance are eclipsed.

I believe that, too.

BTW, did you read the Cyclic History thread?
Some people seem to be desperate.

[miditek]

What Tolkki is scared of, is not the name and concept of "his baby" being dragged in the mud, via some non spiritual message.

Anti-Bush, Pro-Gore, and "look at me, I'm spiritual" rants hardly qualify one as being "spiritual"

He is scared of it being such a good album, and of the band being so successful (without him), that Revolution Renaissance is eclipsed.

And given the right set of circumstances- serendipity is the word I believe, then that is entirely possible.

The last three albums that he wrote were certainly not the strongest in a career that careened back and forth from "not bad at all, (if somewhat derivative of the Malmsteen/Blackmore/Helloween family tree)" to essentially "parodying himself in a sea of vodka, self-pity and attention whoring". Tolkki would do well do focus on the music, and leave the gossip/drama to the tabloids. He seems too distracted and trying to relive the "glory days" of a legacy that, in the end, was truly a study in mediocrity (although certainly with some very bright musical moments at times, but also with way too much 'filler' overall, and not to mention a rather vaguely defined 'mission' of some sort. He's a musician, not the Messiah, folks.) as opposed to writing new and exciting music.

I must admit that Kiske's performance on the title track of RR was actually pretty good, even if the music itself sounded a bit, well, like Tolkki's "Reload".

[icecab21]

I’m not worried about a comedy album. I actually do think that would be funny. Tolkki talks like their set lists will just be advertising for their own material and as if they will drop all the songs that had his visions or elements to them. For me a big part of straotvarius is the songs like anthem of the world paradise, we hold the key, wings of tomorrow as well as the songs that talk about dealing with issues the guys have faced such as being bipolar.since tolkki and kotipelto have both said that kotipelto did not like singing some of this materal i think it's interesting.

highly melodic symphonic power metal with intelligent lyrics.

so how does this stuff compare to what tk did with warmen since those songs have great melodies music ?

awsome because kotipelto has yet to write a power metal song in in his solo stuff he has different goals than a power metal song i have read. i'm assuming jens is the key to this since he can play what he wants and thus put together what he wants.

[icecab21]

The thing is that if they keep the name that and do some great music that will promote the message of tolkki as they continue using the name and new fans look at past works. That’s also why I would love a tolkki and the other two to create an album because that would also create new fans and let more people into the message and the music. Working together as a team or a friendly completion is much better than a zero sum game. This can be win win for everyone. It seems some people can have this contempt for advertising. All the commercial songs written for adults have positive messages so corporate world aint too bad. The show America’s got talent is all about showing the inspirational stories of people making those small and important contributions that make life special and meaningful. This is not a competition and all this music should be art that compliments each other and has positive effects in people’s lives. I’m not sure why tolkki says he does not like talking about his music but from the way he talks in interviews and the forums its just music that comes to him and he is not sitting down and analyzing how to create the next big thing. Both bands are filled with guys that can do special things and this situation should get tolkki back in form and jj and tk have the change to get in form and write masterpieces with freedom to explore and work together

[boswoth]

since tolkki and kotipelto have both said that kotipelto did not like singing some of this materal i think it's interesting.

Where did Kotipelto say that, and which songs?

I know Tolkki has said something like "Kotipelto hates to sing a lot of my songs" but is it just ... one of those things he says?

[boswoth]

Anti-Bush, Pro-Gore, and "look at me, I'm spiritual" rants hardly qualify one as being "spiritual"

Yeah .. that's the message in some of the later things that tolkki has written about in blogs and forums, but it's still not that much in the lyrics. ok maybe a little bit. The god-hating elements really disturbs me a bit too. But what i love about the band is the generally consistent positive message. Compared to much metal it's a rare thing and it was really refreshing when the band started to get popular. It was great powerful music and lyrics whcih were neither about unicorns nor about praising satan

But I don't see how the lyrics of very popular songs like "Black Diamond" or "Distant Skies" are spiritual and about love and universal brotherhood. Or even "Destiny".

and not to mention a rather vaguely defined 'mission' of some sort. He's a musician, not the Messiah, folks.

This is such typical narcissist thing, and bipolar thing. I think he would be REALLY well served by sticking to music and staying away from forums and blogs.. and making business deals ..

[icecab21]

"There are not many people who can sing this, but that’s the fact. I must say that with the Stratovarius stuff the lines were extremely high. I didn’t like some of the songs and told Tolki about it. Of course he was the producer and I tried it. That is why I composed my songs a bit lower. It sounds better and there is more feeling, but still it comes with a lot of power. I sing very loud on stage: I blow myself away.”"

http://www.reflectionsofdarkness.com/in ... &Itemid=46

theres a quick one

now with some of tolkkis songs like maniac dance i would hate to sing that one too but thats one i think should never be played by anyone. i think some of the songs that were more of tolkkis veiw of the world could ahve been the ones kotipelto does not feel so strongly for. that first interveiw was just the first one a search engine poped out since i don't store the details of these kinds of things so sometimes what i say looses the details. i guess i also get this idea because in tollkis solo materal its simular to his stratovarius materal andwith kotipeltos solo materal its written for a different porpose than his or tolkkis stratovarius materal

[icecab21]

now just to fill up a page that will not get read with lyrics.

ime waits for no one. So they say. It goes on forever.

The tears of pain I see in your eyes How can we change for the better?

Hate and greed`s getting stronger day by day Injustice rules the world Killing the lungs of the Earth How far are we prepared to go?

I have seen the Light. It came into my life. There´s no second chance. We should have learned by now. But it´s not too late to change the course. There´s so much more than this, oh Mother Gaia

Can you see, can you feel all the beauty that we have in this world? There´s so much to see, forever Ignorance, arrogance Keep us from being ourselves so we just follow our leaders - Why

Here in the Universe I find some things that are so hard to understand The vastness of space just takes my breath away I see through history The years they come and go The seconds that will shape my destiny The time that we spend here Is precious, that I see so clear What is our place in here? What is the meaning of the pain we feel? Where did all this come from? The galaxies, the moon the stars, oh I don´t know I really want to know what is the meaning of evolution They say that we are the crown of all creation So let´s break free from these chains Of fear, hate and greed And join together singing our Celestial Dream Freedom is awaiting For those who take the path less traveled And in the end we´ll all sing our Celestial Dream

Welcome to my world
Close the gates
You've come from far away
I've been expecting you
You are the holders of the key
To the story that never ends

Fantasia
Resides deep in your heart
Leave your worries far behind
Fantasia
Let the freedom ring the bell
Let us all unite
Borders made of hate are gone
Nations singing the song of peace
In Fantasia

How would it be? A world without hate...
Without heaven, without hell
No wars, no arms, no religion, no god
Just your own truth

Fear and darkness prevail
But finally they will fail

Fantasia
Resides deep in your heart
Leave your worries far behind
Fantasia
Let the freedom ring the bell
Let us all unite
Borders made of hate are gone
Nations singing the song of peace
Fantasia

Fantasia
One day when love conquers all
Mankind will prevail
No more jealousy
Fantasia
No more envy, no deceit
The nothing is gone
Future's bright and glorious
We are all victorious
We are kings in Fantasia

The setting sun creates another world. The shadows fall another day is in the end. The paradise is sleeping peacefully. And one more day is again history.

Tell me can we go on like this? Everybody is living in a bliss. Are these the last times of our Mother Earth? Or is it just beginning of new Birth?

Don't be afraid we must wise, patient and peaceful and strong. Maybe it's like you would throw the dice then hope that nothing goes wrong. Remember that you have the right to say all things that you feel inside. Open your mind and you openyour eyes together now is the time.

Sing the Anthem of the World but will we ever learn. To control our hate and to forgive. We must learn to find the wa to just live another day. And be free like an Eagle in the sky.

How about if God just let us down?
If he just is polishing his crown?
What's the key to the Universe?
Is life down here just one big endless curse?

Don't be afraid we must wise, patient and peaceful and strong. Maybe it's like you would throw the dice then hope that nothing goes wrong. Remember that you have the right to say all things that you feel inside. Open your mind and you openyour eyes together now is the time.

Sing the Anthem of the World but will we ever learn. To control our hate and to forgive. We must learn to find the wa to just live another day. And be free like an Eagle in the sky.

New winds are blowing
Over the world, can you feel it?
Message is spreading among all the people
Future is calling
History is leaving behind
Nobody is thinking about the past days

If you want to have a look in future world
If you have an open mind
It is your turn
Come join our forces to this trip on the
Wings of tomorrow

Consider that this world
Could be free from all this hatred
There would be no borders, no laws of anykind
Still mankind is falling
Planning its ruin everyday
But hey we can still stop this madness together

If you want to have a look in future world
If you have an open mind
It is your turn
Come join our forces to this trip on the
Wings of tomorrow

I'm watching as the morning sun rises
Before my very eyes
Revealing all this beauty
Questions fill my mind once again
Clearing my thoughs
Have I been blind?
Now I see

The hole is getting bigger in the sky
Do you know the reason why
Nobody seems to care
Everything is so well in your life
Did you ever give a dime
To things that you really believed?

The future will show
What happens to our world

We hold the key to the door
Of salvation eternally
We hold the key to minds
To the future of mankind

It's time to wake up from your dreams to reality
This can't go on, believe me
If you just turn your head away
Will tomorrow be the same
Try to foresee

The future will show
What happens to our world

We hold the key to the door
Of salvation eternally
We hold the key to minds
To the future of mankind

What will we find?
Mountains to climb?
More destruction and hatred
We'll discover

Suddenly sounds awake me
Birds singing beautifully
Maybe there is hope still left...
In this world

We hold the key to the door
Of salvation eternally
We hold the key to minds
To the future of mankind



See now part of that message is love and part is blassphemistic and pessimistic and anti mystic.

now if you really dont know the kinds of songs tolkki is talking about just find the ones that get the most hate from thrash death and black metal fanatics and the ones people call anything power metal cheesy.

[browneyedgirl]

He’s almost asking for the guys to put out a comedy album and fuck around with the name then sell it on eBay. Still he gave the name away; I would have kept something that means that much to me.

I happen to know what the direction the new material is taking, and believe me when I say the "new Stratovarius" album will not be a comedy album.

It will be highly melodic symphonic power metal with intelligent lyrics. If you worry that they would be so stupid that they change style into death metal, or start having crappy or meaningless lyrics, you will be happily surprised.

What Tolkki is scared of, is not the name and concept of "his baby" being dragged in the mud, via some non spiritual message.

He is scared of it being such a good album, and of the band being so successful (without him), that he and Revolution Renaissance are eclipsed.

This post is so profound&says so much that it deserves to be brought forward.

@icecab21, what do you mean? This is the hottest topic on the Main section! Is that why you are trying to distract readers with lyrics?

[browneyedgirl]

TT: You cant really compare one album to their situation in which they
are continuing the band with most likely many years as Stratovarius. I am just demonstrating my point with one album and by definition a following courtcase that the idea of continuing as Stratovarius is morally wrong to me. And the issue of greediness. These are my thoughts and opinions and as I have said Stratovarius has been my vision and my baby.

I belive he is here admitting the real reason he announced this Tolkki/ Lassila/ Ikonen Stratovarius record. He is trying to demonstrate a point. It's not a realistic idea, either artistically or practically.

Artistically because a) Lassila and Ikonen were ruthlessly fired for musical reasons. And b) making an album just to demonstrate a legal and moral point is not a valid artistic starting point (especially when you are completely wrong about the moral and legal point)

Practically because a) they were fired and may not give Tolkki the time of day b) he didn't even ask them if they were interested, and c) no label would touch this project due to the legal situation with the band name.

I never thought of that in that way!
I don't know who Morko is, but he is pretty smart!

[browneyedgirl]

Anti-Bush, Pro-Gore, and "look at me, I'm spiritual" rants hardly qualify one as being "spiritual"

Yeah .. that's the message in some of the later things that tolkki has written about in blogs and forums, but it's still not that much in the lyrics. ok maybe a little bit. The god-hating elements really disturbs me a bit too. But what i love about the band is the generally consistent positive message. Compared to much metal it's a rare thing and it was really refreshing when the band started to get popular. It was great powerful music and lyrics whcih were neither about unicorns nor about praising satan

But I don't see how the lyrics of very popular songs like "Black Diamond" or "Distant Skies" are spiritual and about love and universal brotherhood. Or even "Destiny".

and not to mention a rather vaguely defined 'mission' of some sort. He's a musician, not the Messiah, folks.

This is such typical narcissist thing, and bipolar thing. I think he would be REALLY well served by sticking to music and staying away from forums and blogs.. and making business deals ..

I was going to reply to this post last night but I was just so busy not having a life that I just did not have the time.
Anyway, I always liked Tolkki's lyrics and were inspired by them until someone more open-minded opened my eyes. I was bragging about the lyrics of "Alpha&Omega", how they were taken from the Bible and that I was proud Tolkki seemed to have a personal relationship with God. This person laughed&replied, "You dumbass, don't you realize "Alpha&Omega" is a parody? Its actually making fun of God, peoples faith in Him, and religion."
After I was told this, I did not look the same at Tolkki's lyrics, Even though I am proud of the general good positive message of many of the songs. Hating violence is always a good thing. And, I do still love the music, whether the lyrics are obviously blasphemic or not.

[icecab21]

I put the lyrics there because someone asked "what songs with a message" I figure people might as well read the lyrics but I also see people have no interest in the way he writes music or the thought process or belief system he has. his motives will alwyas be redueced to the most sinister sub reasons that may or may not actualy be any part of his thought process.

[Burning Reflection]

I was bragging about the lyrics of "Alpha&Omega", how they were taken from the Bible and that I was proud Tolkki seemed to have a personal relationship with God. This person laughed&replied, "You dumbass, don't you realize "Alpha&Omega" is a parody? Its actually making fun of God, peoples faith in Him, and religion."
After I was told this, I did not look the same at Tolkki's lyrics, Even though I am proud of the general good positive message of many of the songs. Hating violence is always a good thing. And, I do still love the music, whether the lyrics are obviously blasphemic or not.

I'm sorry and I'm not going to call names, but what that person believed about the "Alpha and Omega" is not true. The Alpha and Omega is a spiritual message. In this world filled with disorder, who or what causes us to evolve physically and spirtually? Why would this person want us to do so? It's because that "god" eventually wants us to be like him. This is a very old concept, but yet, no one would like to believe in it because it takes too much work and love to play the role of "god". It's a life full of work and as one believes that they could not become "god", they relieve all of their responsibilities to that "higher power" and do not seek higher levels of spirtual growth. The goal of evolution is to be like that of "god". That's what Tolkki means by "I am the beginning and the end of time". "God's" love has created us and eventually our goals as humans is to evolve into something like that of "god". On the contratry to those beliefs of blasphemous message, Tolkki wants us to embrace the good and love of "god". That's why he's considered the beginning and the end of time.