US president 2008: Candidates, discussion, and the rest...

[browneyedgirl]

Some polls show Obama&McCain are running neck-n-neck, almost even.
I don't believe that for one second! If Americans are so dumb to want another 4 years of Bush policies under mcCain after the 8 years of disaster Bush put us through, then I say the people fucking deserve it! I don't believe people are that stupid! Of course, Bush got elected for a second term in 2004, so maybe Americans are that stupid.

[icecab21]

well they just had a whole convention about not being bush, if they get elected i hope it pans out that way. in the polls what are the margin and error and confidence level? or do they even say that, since to give the information like that usaly will defeat the spin

[NeonVomit]

Obama.
I didn't say I liked WHAT she said, I just liked HOW she said what she did. She's a forceful, aggressive speaker, and gets her points across.
I don't agree with most of her policies/beliefs at all. She is an extreme conservative.
Matter of fact, I still think its something fishy about McCain picking her in the first place. Palin was not even on his VP list!

Yeah, I thought it was a bit... odd.

If it was meant to be a way to reach out to Hillary Clinton supporters, he must think they're very shallow... she's against almost everything Hillary stands for and the only thing they have in common is gender. And the extreme conservatism thing would be worrying if I lived over there - I'm about as socially liberal as they get.

[browneyedgirl]

Maybe choosing Palin was simply a ploy to get the religious right's votes. After all, they are a big chunk of potential Republican votes! It seems McCain is really close to Lieberman, maybe he thought Lieberman would've been too controversial, being a Democrat and Jewish so, he chose to please the larger audience, so to speak. It actually gives me the creeps to think this Palin woman might become a heart attack, gunshot, or stroke away from holding the highest office in the land, and being commander-in-chief of our armed forces! :shud: Damn.

Is it too late for me to become a citizen of Russia? All of a sudden I do not feel too safe here.

[stratoplayer]

Is it too late for me to become a citizen of Russia? All of a sudden I do not feel too safe here.

You`re feeling unsafe NOW? I would have left a long time ago, you know, when people started losing their jobs by the thousands, per WEEK.

[icecab21]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

[browneyedgirl]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

Maybe I should have said New Zealand, then the doodo bird woudn't be extinct there any more! In any case, it's a paradise.

[miditek]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

Also a rather dangerous place for foreigners- they are not wanted there.

[AGAG]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

Also a rather dangerous place for foreigners- they are not wanted there.

I've been wondering, does any country REALLY likes foreigners?? if so, tell me...

[icecab21]

they like the cash and there will always be citizens that welcome others. now people that serve certain ideologies will cause problems and unfortanatly many countries people will act apon orders that are not benefitual

[NeonVomit]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

Also a rather dangerous place for foreigners- they are not wanted there.

My dad goes to Russia fairly regularly on business, has been doing so for the last decade or so and he told me especially more recently Russians have generally been quite hospitable.

We have a couple of Russian members on this board, maybe they can add their thoughts to that statement

[miditek]

russia of course being the natural haven for oppertunity, security, and free will

Also a rather dangerous place for foreigners- they are not wanted there.

My dad goes to Russia fairly regularly on business, has been doing so for the last decade or so and he told me especially more recently Russians have generally been quite hospitable.

We have a couple of Russian members on this board, maybe they can add their thoughts to that statement

My father has been to Russia for commerce as well- and of course, Russia is always open for business. What I was referring to was immigration. There was an interesting BBC report that I saw of an extremely violent nationalist group that was undergoing paramilitary training, and apparently with the blessing of the local militsi. Operatives of this group would go around and beat people from the Caucuses, Asia, and had a particularly vehment hatred for Africans.

The interviews also included many of this group's victims- and there is certainly more than one ultra-nationalist group within Russia's borders, and it is equally certain that they would have difficulty operating there without some sort of sympathy or tolerance from the Kremlin, in addition to local and regional authorities.

The only way that this group, whose leaders included several ex-military officers, would permit the journalist and his crew to film and interview was if he would agree to undergo the training courses himself. This included, weapons training, hand-to-hand combat, urban combat, diversion/escape and evasion, and other techniques. We're not talking about the Boy Scouts here- and their self-declared primary mission is to keep minorities "in their place".

[miditek]

Obama comment whilst at das Tiergarten in front of 200,000 screaming German groupies- "Ich bin ein Bewunderer!"

(Raucous applause)

"Ich bin ein Amerikaner!"

(Crickets chirping- auf Deutsch, of course)

The next thing you know, he'll be claiming that he was the one challenging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall!"
even though Frau Merkel wouldn't allow him to make his speech at Brandenburg.

<Quote>-

it appears that Frau Merkel probably pulled a fast one on Obongo- she did not permit him to speak at the Brandenburg Gate, but not far from here-

Siegessäule


The fact that this monument was a testament to nineteenth century Prussian military aggression probably went right over his pointed little 'fro.

[browneyedgirl]

John McCain being President does not scare me that much, I would not like it of course, I'd have to accept it if it happened. BUT, the thought of this Palin woman maybe becoming prez DOES bother me. Her kind of conservative(and religious) extremism is the type that would plunge USA directly into Nuclear War. So, people better think long&hard before they cast their vote for McCain simply on the basis of who MIGHT become President by accident.

[icecab21]

It was interesting at the republican convention when they cheered forgoing due process and the shoot first, never ask policy that administrations have used against our prisoners. Prisoners that have been tortured and humiliated, all without even being charged for a crime after years of capture. What kind of prisoner of war stories will they tell? If they make it out that is. Disrespect is no way to turn feelings, we don’t need people to hate and fear us, we need people live and let live and respect us.

[miditek]

It was interesting at the republican convention when they cheered forgoing due process and the shoot first, never ask policy that administrations have used against our prisoners. Prisoners that have been tortured and humiliated, all without even being charged for a crime after years of capture. What kind of prisoner of war stories will they tell? If they make it out that is. Disrespect is no way to turn feelings, we don’t need people to hate and fear us, we need people live and let live and respect us.

Jihadists that are part of no army or navy of any country and that have no immediately verifiable uniform nor insignia have no business being taken prisoner anyway. Like the cowards they are- rather than fighting us out in the open, they hide amongst civilians and then complain when civilians get hit in the crossfire.

They have captured, tortured and murdered our soldiers, sailors, and Marines, our civilians- including missionaries -of all things, and yet not one bit of international hue and cry over that.

These are people that have sworn to destroy us and our way of life- and for that, there can be no negotiations, or for that matter, and absolutely no mercy whatsoever. If you are trying to win the jihadists' hearts and minds, all you need to do is bow down and wait for them to decapitate you. So please, be my guest.

I disagree with torture with the only exception being intelligence gathering when faced with an imminent threat with civilians or military personnel lives at risk. Other than that, immediate execution of all spies, saboteurs, partisans, and guerrillas on the spot should be the general order.

If they surrender, quarter could be given. However, If they throw excrement or urine on the guards after capture, it's time to get the dogs out. If they complain at all about anything after being captured, then it's time to get the dogs out. They are terrorist scum, and I have no sympathy for them. They gave up their rights to human rights when they vowed to destroy the west and propagandized that our civilians are legtimate targets.

And for the umpteenth time, I really don't care WHO sympathizes with them. If they attacked your country you would feel the same way. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

[browneyedgirl]

You cannot give much sympathy to these people who have vowed to destroy USA in one way or another. The next time instead of plowing an airplane into a building, they may use some kind of nuclear device&destroy a whole city. And, DON'T say that's impossible. Thats what people thought about 9/11, too. Nobody dreamed something of that magnitude would ever happen on USA soil. But. It. Did.

[icecab21]

Religion gone wrong or humanism gone wrong? The question is what one will destroy us all first? It’s such a shame that people have a desire for control and conquest. It takes soldiers of a system to act on it, and there are ways that will recruit more soldiers to sacrifice their lives for “something bigger than them” and there are ways that can limit followers of these ideologies and build bridges. How we treat the parasites of humanity still influences how general citizens will react and their willingness to join causes. It’s a shame so many maniacs with causes have followers and resources.

Maybe the speakers only meant for certain cases for non-citizens, but it did sound like they made a thin line between using the bill of rights and not using the bill of rights. I for one would rather see a justice system of the bill of rights rather than a lynch mob or witch hunt system.

[browneyedgirl]

Letter from one 'Angry Woman'

I don't know who wrote this, but they should have signed it. Some powerful words. This woman should run for president.
Written by a housewife and This is one ticked off lady. It's too bad that more Americans don't express themselves as she does.

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?? Well, WERE THEY??
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was 'desecrated' when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?  Well, I don't. I don't care at all.
I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for chopping off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide .
I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured: I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank: I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts: I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and-you guessed it-I don't care !!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country!
And may I add:
'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem' --
I have another quote that I would like to add AND.......I hope you forward all this.
'If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.'

One last thought for the day:
In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American bullshit, sentiment and negativity, we should remember England's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during a recent interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America, he said: 'A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in. And how many want out.'

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET BOTH OF THEM.
**************

[icecab21]

That lady is being a complete
Babe
In
Total
Charge of
Herself

Why does she use the name Jesus and then go into a rant of apathy that people are being lost to a fanatic cause?

when i read the bible jesus was more about being above those that hit low and about working to prevent this kind of thing instead of fuel it.

Bush and Palen will be fantastic for the kind of person that would write that letter. In fact, it seems from some of the signs at the convention that some people will vote for the ticket because they want palen's bush.

This is the shit that gets us into wars when we have no evidence, locked into causes before guilt is proved.

For every lost cause that we can kill, letters like that will fuel a thousand more into a system that will sacrifice their lives for their cause. We don’t need fuel for the fire

[stratoplayer]

Why the fuck must you all bring Jesus to your arguments. Hell, its like a crutch in your language, you can't bring a decent argument without bringing in either God, the bible or Jesus.

And you wonder why people dislike religious zealots.

[icecab21]

well how else is this supposed to go? we have people in this world that want everyone to follow their own interpretation of their personal god's will and willing to die and kill for that untill the rest of the world submits to their vision.

[browneyedgirl]

It was interesting at the republican convention when they cheered forgoing due process and the shoot first, never ask policy that administrations have used against our prisoners. Prisoners that have been tortured and humiliated, all without even being charged for a crime after years of capture. What kind of prisoner of war stories will they tell? If they make it out that is. Disrespect is no way to turn feelings, we don’t need people to hate and fear us, we need people live and let live and respect us.

Jihadists that are part of no army or navy of any country and that have no immediately verifiable uniform nor insignia have no business being taken prisoner anyway. Like the cowards they are- rather than fighting us out in the open, they hide amongst civilians and then complain when civilians get hit in the crossfire.

They have captured, tortured and murdered our soldiers, sailors, and Marines, our civilians- including missionaries -of all things, and yet not one bit of international hue and cry over that.

These are people that have sworn to destroy us and our way of life- and for that, there can be no negotiations, or for that matter, and absolutely no mercy whatsoever. If you are trying to win the jihadists' hearts and minds, all you need to do is bow down and wait for them to decapitate you. So please, be my guest.

I disagree with torture with the only exception being intelligence gathering when faced with an imminent threat with civilians or military personnel lives at risk. Other than that, immediate execution of all spies, saboteurs, partisans, and guerrillas on the spot should be the general order.

If they surrender, quarter could be given. However, If they throw excrement or urine on the guards after capture, it's time to get the dogs out. If they complain at all about anything after being captured, then it's time to get the dogs out. They are terrorist scum, and I have no sympathy for them. They gave up their rights to human rights when they vowed to destroy the west and propagandized that our civilians are legtimate targets.

And for the umpteenth time, I really don't care WHO sympathizes with them. If they attacked your country you would feel the same way. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
But, you just as well be posting to stone walls. There are people so Pacifist in this world they would not shoot a rat off their own child's throat. Makes me wonder what, they'd do if,God forbid, the enemy invaded---Probably kiss their ass&give them Sanctuary. Odds are someday we might just find out.

well how else is this supposed to go? we have people in this world that want everyone to follow their own interpretation of their personal god's will and willing to die and kill for that untill the rest of the world submits to their vision.

Yep, that is exactly how MUSLIM Terrorists think, and that is the mindset which spawned 9/11.

[icecab21]

would you aim at the middle of your child's throat to kill a rat? kill the rat, save the child. should the rat surrender treat the rat in a way that wont cause those who are not rats to become rats.

It’s a mix of blame and cause and effect that has caused this attitude towards the west. The way we treat those at the extreme sways the opinions of those in the middle.

This is not about pacifism, this was about the republicans cheering on not using the bill of rights for people suspected, not charged, with making plans.

I’m just saying I think dickbush foreign policy is the best way of creating allies in the middle. it seems strange to fight for rights of weapons of death and then cheer for locking people up for years without even deciding on what to charge them for.

if creating humans out of each other and the middle ground does not work, then obama will be the death of the country. if going after and destroying the problems in a way that creates friends and allies out of non extreme muslims is the wrong idea, then a vote for obama is a vote for the death of the country. that seems to be what joe was talking about as he spoke at the convention.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

This is not about pacifism, this was about the republicans cheering on not using the bill of rights for people suspected, not charged, with making plans.

The Bill of Rights was not created for, and does not apply to, enemy troops.

cheer for locking people up for years without even deciding on what to charge them for.

Its not a matter of deciding, they are prisoners of war. We cannot "charge" them with a crime because their actions usually did not take place on US soil (where we have legal jurisdiction). The only thing we can and should do is keep the murderers quarantined!

[NeonVomit]

This is not about pacifism, this was about the republicans cheering on not using the bill of rights for people suspected, not charged, with making plans.

The Bill of Rights was not created for, and does not apply to, enemy troops.

The Geneva Convention does, though.

[NeonVomit]

It was interesting at the republican convention when they cheered forgoing due process and the shoot first, never ask policy that administrations have used against our prisoners. Prisoners that have been tortured and humiliated, all without even being charged for a crime after years of capture. What kind of prisoner of war stories will they tell? If they make it out that is. Disrespect is no way to turn feelings, we don’t need people to hate and fear us, we need people live and let live and respect us.

Jihadists that are part of no army or navy of any country and that have no immediately verifiable uniform nor insignia have no business being taken prisoner anyway. Like the cowards they are- rather than fighting us out in the open, they hide amongst civilians and then complain when civilians get hit in the crossfire.

They have captured, tortured and murdered our soldiers, sailors, and Marines, our civilians- including missionaries -of all things, and yet not one bit of international hue and cry over that.

These are people that have sworn to destroy us and our way of life- and for that, there can be no negotiations, or for that matter, and absolutely no mercy whatsoever. If you are trying to win the jihadists' hearts and minds, all you need to do is bow down and wait for them to decapitate you. So please, be my guest.

I disagree with torture with the only exception being intelligence gathering when faced with an imminent threat with civilians or military personnel lives at risk. Other than that, immediate execution of all spies, saboteurs, partisans, and guerrillas on the spot should be the general order.

If they surrender, quarter could be given. However, If they throw excrement or urine on the guards after capture, it's time to get the dogs out. If they complain at all about anything after being captured, then it's time to get the dogs out. They are terrorist scum, and I have no sympathy for them. They gave up their rights to human rights when they vowed to destroy the west and propagandized that our civilians are legtimate targets.

And for the umpteenth time, I really don't care WHO sympathizes with them. If they attacked your country you would feel the same way. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

I don't see why you hate radical Muslims so much. You seem to think in exactly the same way they do.

If we sink to their level, then we are the losers, not them. And also, like icecab21 said, is that really the sort of attitude Jesus would have? I mean, since he's meant to be a role model for life or something... correct me if I'm wrong.

[NeonVomit]

when i read the bible jesus was more about being above those that hit low and about working to prevent this kind of thing instead of fuel it.

BEG, read this. Carefully. Then read it again. Then read the bible, especially the bits where Jesus is speaking. Then think about the whole 'revenge' attitude for 9/11.

Either you are wrong and we must try to find peaceful solutions to everything, or what Jesus said is wrong, and vengance should be the right path and you should not turn the other cheek.

I'm just so tired of people using his name to support actions he would've opposed.

Choose one or the other.

[browneyedgirl]

when i read the bible jesus was more about being above those that hit low and about working to prevent this kind of thing instead of fuel it.

BEG, read this. Carefully. Then read it again. Then read the bible, especially the bits where Jesus is speaking. Then think about the whole 'revenge' attitude for 9/11.

Either you are wrong and we must try to find peaceful solutions to everything, or what Jesus said is wrong, and vengance should be the right path and you should not turn the other cheek.

I'm just so tired of people using his name to support actions he would've opposed.

Choose one or the other.

Read This. Carefully. Then read it again. I DON'T have to choose anything and you have some gall even saying something that stupid, especially since you are always pretty much bragging about being an agnostic. An agnostic who has posted that taking a child to church is equal to child abuse.
Jesus Christ should not even be in your vocabulary, and it appears YOU are the one using His name in the flimsy attempt to buoy up your end of the debate.

And a person would have to ask YOU: Why do you LOVE radical Muslims so much, and always rush to defend them when these people hold all you believe in to be an abomination? Al-Quaida has imprisoned&beat people simply for listening to rock music. Lord only knows what they'd do to you for playing it!
Talk about choice, one day there may come a time when you people who have "kissed the ass" (figuratively speaking)of the enemy may have to choose, and let me tell you something, these radicals would not hesitate to chop your head off, or blow your brains out in a second, no matter how much you have defended them in the past. Matter of fact, they'd probably laugh at you for your unending defense of them!

Oh, one more thing. in case you do not know it, USA did not ask for, or deserve 9/11. USA did not fuel those events. Anyone who believes to the contrary is one sorry human being, I don't care what country you are a citizen of. Nobody better even imply USA asked for 9/11.

[NeonVomit]

when i read the bible jesus was more about being above those that hit low and about working to prevent this kind of thing instead of fuel it.

BEG, read this. Carefully. Then read it again. Then read the bible, especially the bits where Jesus is speaking. Then think about the whole 'revenge' attitude for 9/11.

Either you are wrong and we must try to find peaceful solutions to everything, or what Jesus said is wrong, and vengance should be the right path and you should not turn the other cheek.

I'm just so tired of people using his name to support actions he would've opposed.

Choose one or the other.

Read This. Carefully. Then read it again. I DON'T have to choose anything and you have some gall even saying something that stupid, especially since you are always pretty much bragging about being an agnostic. An agnostic who has posted that taking a child to church is equal to child abuse.

And a person would have to ask YOU: Why do you LOVE radical Muslims so much, and always rush to defend them when these people hold all you believe in to be an abomination? Al-Quaida has imprisoned&beat peole simply for listening to rock music. Lord only knows what they'd do to you for playing it!
!

When on earth did I ever 'defend radical Islam'? Give me specific examples. When did I ever say I support any of their actions?

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 9 years and trust me, I know first hand just how nasty it is. You've (as far as I know) never left the USA, so no matter how angry you might get at seeing things on TV or the internet, please don't pretend that you know more about them than I do, or have any right to be more enraged by them than I do or anyone else does. My sister was on the train behind the one at Liverpool Street station which got blown up on 7/7/05 in London, and that was close enough for me.

I'm sorry that I have to point out the fact that you contradict the teachings of your own faith. If you don't feel the need to defend or explain your opinions, then there's not much point in discussing anything. Or do you treat Christianity as a salad bar, just pick and choose the things which suit you?

Talk about choice, one day thee may come a time when you people who have "kissed the ass" of the enemy may have to choose, and let me tell you something, these radicals would not hesitate to chop your head off, or blow your brains out in a second, no matter how much you have defended them in the past. Matter of fact, they'd probably laugh at you for your unending defense of them

Nice one. Because most European countries were against the idea of charging into Iraq (which had absolutely zero to do with 9/11 and served no real purpose) that means 'we kiss the ass of our enemy'.

Excuse me, but you do realise that Spanish, British, French, Dutch, Italian, German and Danish troops have died and been wounded in Afghanistan (which was linked to 9/11), right? By making such an ignorant and narrow minded statement you spit on their memories and sacrifies. I'd never disrespect any American soldier who laid their life down in the line of duty however much I disagree with the political leaders, so I suggest you don't do the same.

Are you sure you want to vote Democrat? Because you sound an awful lot like Bush most of the time. 'If you're not with us, you're against us!' not unswervingly supporting the US' actions means I'm a terrorist sympathiser, right?

Again, I'm sorry to point out that the world isn't black and white.

Oh, one more thing. in case you do not know it, USA did not ask for, or deserve 9/11. USA did not fuel those events. Anyone who believes to the contrary is one sorry human being, I don't care what country you are a citizen of. Nobody better even imply USA asked for 9/11.

I never once implied that the USA deserved 9/11. But do you think a bunch of terrorists just decided to attack for no reason at all out of the blue? There were causes. Were they justified in doing that? Of course not. But everything has a cause and an effect.