DragonForce... ?

[hiro23]

Here's the thing, you either like them or you don't like them, however if you don't like them at least have enough respect for the people who do.

I for one have had no problem with Dragonforce's music and think it's actually really catchy(yes I know a dirty word in metal). I personally love albums that are not only good metal but also just plain good music. I think it's great when a band can not only be very riffy but also very catchy.

I for one am a huge fan of Mutt lange's producing style and love how he's able to maintain that line, why hate any band because they are successful, I think that has to be one of the lamest reasons for even hating a band. If you hate a band simply do it because you don't like the music, not because of some stupid "they sold out" idea.

Dragonforce is the same, don't hate them simply because they are popular.

Oh and by the way thank you mayhem for all for introducing me to Power quest, I've found a new band to stock up on.

[icecab21]

I think hating a band period, is lame.
I don't think people interact with the music in ways that allow them to see its value and then blame it on the music instead of the way they listen. Music will affect people no matter what, but people have the choice of what kind of connection they want to make and how deeply they let it affect their minds and moods.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Most of DF's songs are around 200bpm though.

What did I just get through saying in the message you quoted? XD A fast tempo doesn't mean a thing if the guitar chords themselves are held out to average or even lengthy proportions. I'm just saying they're not just randomly plucking strings and then boosting it to 150% speed without putting any thought into it.

Of course if they are, they do a damn good job of it.

If you hate a band simply do it because you don't like the music, not because of some stupid "they sold out" idea.

I have to disagree with that. At least the sold out part. A certain extent is fine - money is always a good thing. But when you pull a Nintendo and downright betray your adoring fans, it's not something I take lightly. In the same way I absolutely loathe people who write music just for financial purposes - I can appreciate it if it's a part of your reason for being a musician, but music is an art, and should never be abused for personal gain. Stratovarius is nearly 25 years old and still going strong, all because they care about their fans. (Or at least I should assume so, given Jens' unnerving commitment to the forums. ^^)

I think hating a band period, is lame.
I don't think people interact with the music in ways that allow them to see its value and then blame it on the music instead of the way they listen. Music will affect people no matter what, but people have the choice of what kind of connection they want to make and how deeply they let it affect their minds and moods.

Doesn't it seem kind of ironic when you say people have a choice about how they react to music and at the same time lumping them all together in that same persona? ;P

I think people have a choice in how they communicate about music - for example, ostracizing people who aren't in love with the same bands they are. But for many people, like my collaboration partner, music can be deeply effective to the point that it becomes a necessity of one's own sanity. Likewise, there are people like me, who have the bad habit of looking at everything commercially and connecting with music that they could imagine as a part of something of theirs rather than listening to it because they enjoy it. To some extent, I've actually lost that ability, which I deeply regret but can't fight my nature without giving up my happiness.

Rant completed, hatemail barrier activated.

[Ragehead91]

If you hate a band simply do it because you don't like the music, not because of some stupid "they sold out" idea.

I have to disagree with that. At least the sold out part. A certain extent is fine - money is always a good thing. But when you pull a Nintendo and downright betray your adoring fans, it's not something I take lightly. In the same way I absolutely loathe people who write music just for financial purposes - I can appreciate it if it's a part of your reason for being a musician, but music is an art, and should never be abused for personal gain. Stratovarius is nearly 25 years old and still going strong, all because they care about their fans. (Or at least I should assume so, given Jens' unnerving commitment to the forums. ^^)

I have to agree here. In the end, everyone does it for the money. Everyone who say he isn't in this buisness for money is a lair. That is not a bad thing. I mean, they have to make their living with music. But if a band just does it for the money or they make a 180° turn in terms of music and just betray their fans because they want to make the money (James, Lars Kirk and Jason, I'm looking straight at you! You guys still owe all your fans a apologize for Load, ReLoad and especially St. Anger!) I'm getting mad.

[hiro23]

Alright first off I never said your not allowed to hate a band, I just said if you don't like them do it because the music maybe is not your cup of tea, don't hate a band just because it's famous, they worked hard to get there.

I'm not going to go into a debate about turning backs on fans and all that other stuff, because that's just another thing based on opinion.

Plus I don't think nintendo ever turned it's back on it's fans, that once again I think is based on opinion.


Please do not take this as an attack I'm merely stating that like everything in life many of the things we do or do not love are based around one's opinion.

[icecab21]

Doesn't it seem kind of ironic when you say people have a choice about how they react to music and at the same time lumping them all together in that same persona? ;P

I think people have a choice in how they communicate about music - for example, ostracizing people who aren't in love with the same bands they are. But for many people, like my collaboration partner, music can be deeply effective to the point that it becomes a necessity of one's own sanity. Likewise, there are people like me, who have the bad habit of looking at everything commercially and connecting with music that they could imagine as a part of something of theirs rather than listening to it because they enjoy it. To some extent, I've actually lost that ability, which I deeply regret but can't fight my nature without giving up my happiness.

I think we all say ironic things from time to time without putting modifiers in to give specific categories of application. What I really should have put there was something like "one attitude that I have encountered seems to view music in X way; there are other ways of looking at the music". In another way, looking at music from certain points of view may be something that we all do by stepping back we can become more aware of the implications of viewing music in certain ways.

[Star_Ocean]

Just because you don’t like the music does not mean that you should deny the feeling others get from the music or the worth of the music.

Are you kidding me? Are you fucking serious? Dude, where did I say I was "denying the feeling others get"? I just said I, PERSONALLY, think that Helloween is overrated. That doesn't mean I think it's a god-given fact and that everyone else is wrong and should feel the way I do.

Seriously IceCab, you must be a fucking joke or something. Your pseudo-philosophical, "I know everything about life" approach is fairly pathetic.

I think hating a band period, is lame.
I don't think people interact with the music in ways that allow them to see its value and then blame it on the music instead of the way they listen. Music will affect people no matter what, but people have the choice of what kind of connection they want to make and how deeply they let it affect their minds and moods.

So now you're telling others how they should think? I personally think telling others how to think through pseudo philosophical bullshit is lame. But hey, that's just me.

If you would wake up and get in the real world, people will hate things no matter what. Even something as little as music. It's human nature to think negatively, at least every once and a while. It's human nature to grow angry at things, dislike things that they do not enjoy, and many other things. It happens in non-humans as well. Big fucking deal.

Wow. I'm pretty sure my IQ dropped to Forrest Gump levels having to explain the most obvious things in the world to you IceCab.

[hiro23]

Doesn't it seem kind of ironic when you say people have a choice about how they react to music and at the same time lumping them all together in that same persona? ;P

I think people have a choice in how they communicate about music - for example, ostracizing people who aren't in love with the same bands they are. But for many people, like my collaboration partner, music can be deeply effective to the point that it becomes a necessity of one's own sanity. Likewise, there are people like me, who have the bad habit of looking at everything commercially and connecting with music that they could imagine as a part of something of theirs rather than listening to it because they enjoy it. To some extent, I've actually lost that ability, which I deeply regret but can't fight my nature without giving up my happiness.

I think we all say ironic things from time to time without putting modifiers in to give specific categories of application. What I really should have put there was something like "one attitude that I have encountered seems to view music in X way; there are other ways of looking at the music". In another way, looking at music from certain points of view may be something that we all do by stepping back we can become more aware of the implications of viewing music in certain ways.

This is a statement I completely agree with, I have no bones about saying whether I like or dislike something however I don't make fun or discourage a person from listening to something just because I happen to not like it.

I will admit right here and right now that I'm a metallica fan and I've been bashed repeatedly because of that, however I would not do the same thing to someone else as I believe in treating others in the fashion I would like to be treated.

This once again is not an attack on anyone what I'm merely saying is what good does it do us to pick on another person simply because of a preference?

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

I never took anything as an attack, but I kind of trailed off from what I was originally trying to imply. In absolute simplest terms, my view goes something like this: People suck. Therefore, the more people swarm to something, the more it sucks. Which is about as scientifically sound as the existence of oxygen in the atmosphere. DragonForce has a larger fanbase than a number of bands because of the vacuum effect of the suckage carried over from the recent Guiter Hero titles - however, there are thousands of bands that have accumulated a much, much larger amount of suckage from all the sucky people immune to their suckage. Linkin Park and Tokio Hotel, to name a few. Meanwhile, Stratovarius, who have been around for over 20 years and had a massive influence on the genre in its entirety and whom we're all aware is very much lacking in suckage, have had a moderate reception at best, rather than creating any fads or accumulating the number of fans lesser bands have in less than half a decade. And personally I'd very much like to keep it that way, because ridiculously massive fanbases always end up infecting the franchise with suckage and ruining the experience for the real fans out there, as would a swarm of them appearing here in the forums overnight.

Now that I've thoroughly explained my belief on that matter and have run out of being assed enough to thoroughly explain this next statement, everything in existence is a matter of opinion. It's those people who believe in facts - or rather, the ones who have a god complex and mistakenly believe that they somehow know said facts - who start wars and other means of conflict.

[icecab21]

Star, I was talking about your dragonforce comments as well. On how you say they "don’t have heart and are worthless". I’m not telling people how to think; just saying that there are other ways and that will get other experiences. The concept is based on science, not philosophy. There is biological proof of how different additudes change our expirences.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

There's proof of no such thing.

And human nature can be overcome if it's done the right way - whether you're personally capable of doing so or not.

[icecab21]

Observational data can give us probabilities. Of course we can also design hypothesis that fit the observations yet turn out to be different from what we find out later. Different levels of awareness have been observed so I would say that there are different states of human nature.

[NeonVomit]

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Belief in probability is one thing, but the very concept of it is contradictive. One can not know that it is in fact a probability because one can not know what the final outcome will be, or whether there were ever any other possible outcomes to begin with.

Sorry. I'm in something of a bad mood at the moment and I'm not thinking everything through as much as I'd like to. In basic terms the concept is this, though: Until mankind controls every plausible variable in the universe; until mankind becomes a godlike power over existence and is able to manipulate the fabric of reality as they see fit; until we can disprove every alternate theory about everything ever conceived since the dawn of time (and we can't - about the most we can do is fool ourselves into thinking we've proven a concept because we lack access to what may suggest otherwise granted that our concept of reality as a species is miniscule at best), we know absolutely nothing.

And that, friends, is the concept of Ignorism.

[icecab21]

We can just work within paradigms. I don’t think we need to know all to know pieces that can start a framework. It’s sort of just about giving detailed explanations about the context its applications. In one-way 1=1, and in another, 1 can mean something completely different. By the way binary code has been set up, there are two potential results and probability can be made from that in that system. We might not be able to find every variable, but we can find if a variable offers some explanation and what the correlation level is within certain systems.

[warrencurrymetal]

Underrated awesome bands!

Majestic (or Time requeim, or anything else with Richard anderssen)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tM3UIwu ... re=related

Time Requiem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FREoEIlb9QE

Heavenly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFrC0bnILjs

Royal Hunt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZBrDJVnPo

Adagio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1ReVvbqKc

These are tiding me over for polaris.
Enjoy

[Darja222]

I like both bands. The problem with Dragonforce is that their virtuosity is not reflected when they perform live. Although, I've heard some good reviews about their recent show in Japan...

[NeonVomit]

I like both bands. The problem with Dragonforce is that their virtuosity is not reflected when they perform live.

Not always. I've seen them live a fair few times, sometimes they're really good, other times... not so much. ZP always sings well, but Herman and Sam aren't the most consistant of guitarists.

[dirge]

Not a fan of Dragonforce and even less so since I spoke to one of the guitarists and he said he hates Stratovarius and power metal which I found rather odd.

[NeonVomit]

Not a fan of Dragonforce and even less so since I spoke to one of the guitarists and he said he hates Stratovarius and power metal which I found rather odd.

He hates power metal? Rather odd...

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

I hate metal, too. It's you - the listeners - who define their music as metal, for whatever reason. I tend to take the word metal as an insult, and for that reason and because it just plain doesn't sound like my definition of metal, I refer to the both of them as symphonic (or in some cases, such as with Soul of a Vagabond, classical) rock.

[mayhem-for-all]

I hate metal, too. It's you - the listeners - who define their music as metal, for whatever reason. I tend to take the word metal as an insult, and for that reason and because it just plain doesn't sound like my definition of metal, I refer to the both of them as symphonic (or in some cases, such as with Soul of a Vagabond, classical) rock.

Nah its metal
Double Bass drums and Fast guitar and keyboard solos + high vocals are the cliches of Power Metal.
Rock on the other hand is a large genre that all kinds of mteal are part of.

[NeonVomit]

I hate metal, too. It's you - the listeners - who define their music as metal, for whatever reason. I tend to take the word metal as an insult, and for that reason and because it just plain doesn't sound like my definition of metal, I refer to the both of them as symphonic (or in some cases, such as with Soul of a Vagabond, classical) rock.

[Ragehead91]

I hate metal, too. It's you - the listeners - who define their music as metal, for whatever reason. I tend to take the word metal as an insult, and for that reason and because it just plain doesn't sound like my definition of metal, I refer to the both of them as symphonic (or in some cases, such as with Soul of a Vagabond, classical) rock.

+1

[DayDreamer]

*Facepalm*

+2

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

The concept of metal is an opinion, not an absolute fact. The very existence of genres originates from people's opinions on what type of music they like to listen to, and because people's opinions vary so vastly, do too does the definition of any one genre.

[hiro23]

Sorry to tear you away from the philisophical however in the end it's just like this, some of us really like dragonforce and some of us despise them. It's just like any other band in the entire world.

I'm just curious that's all but why do you look at metal as some kind of dirty word? I'm proud to call myself a metalhead and enjoy a huge variety of bands within the genre, why does the tag of metal make it bad? once again just curious

[NeonVomit]

The concept of metal is an opinion, not an absolute fact. The very existence of genres originates from people's opinions on what type of music they like to listen to, and because people's opinions vary so vastly, do too does the definition of any one genre.

Dude, chill out.

If people call themselves metal and the majority of people are inclined to agree with them, then I think it's safe to say they're metal. Saying you hate metal is again saying you hate something based on its label. Therefore your favourite artists and their fans are essentially insulting themselves? I mean okay you can look at things that way but it's a bit of self contradiction...

[icecab21]

It’s all about framing, I still wonder how talking about framing would be pseudo philosophy, since it is taken seriously in academia and non academia alike and well researched and practiced intuitively alike.

[Beast_Pete]

Underrated awesome bands!

Majestic (or Time requeim, or anything else with Richard anderssen)

Agreed!

I personally like Space Odyssey the most from him, both albums are made of gold. I even bought the first one, though I couldn't get a hand on a japanese version.