Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Stratowarius · Post by **Stratowarius** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:23 pm

stratoleo wrote:Blablablablabla and more blablabalablabla....

And you couldn't resist to blablablaaaaa yourself.

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:39 pm

Really this is getting silly, I know I'm probably going to get slammed for this but I'm going to defend tolkki in this instance.

He just wrote a review about an album on the net, to me it didn't really seem as if there was a whole lot of malice in it, just a person stating their opinion.
Do we have to like it? no, however let's at least respect it.

I mean your acting as if he was calling all the members no talent hacks who suck a whole lot of ass, he never said that, he simply said that this album was very different from what he would have written.

The only people who are blowing this out of porportion are the fans on both sides, Seriously think about it, Tolkki has been respectful and Jens has been respectful.
In the end it's just as Tolkki said, it's just a review on the internet.

AAAAAAAAAA · Post by **AAAAAAAAAA** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:45 pm

Timo Tolkki wrote:I do reserve the right[...]for expression of opinion

Right!

Timo Tolkki wrote:without being attacked or called with names.

Wrong!
The price for saying what you feel is being held accountable for your words.

Timo Tolkki wrote:Its my opinion. I am not attacking anybody who thinks its good:) But I am attacked because I write a negative review about it.
That's really weird:)

You expressed your thoughts on Polaris in a spiteful, disrespectful, and bitter way. People are disappointed in that. No one is, you know, filing a lawsuit against you for your opinion but just as you have the right to present a negative review of Polaris, we have the right to present a negative review of your review of Polaris. Simple as that!

Stratowarius · Post by **Stratowarius** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:47 pm

+9000+9000+9999

stratoleo · Post by **stratoleo** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:09 pm

I think we should respect the opinion of all. I think it's fair, and not waste time on silly discussions.

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:21 pm

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:29 pm

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:we have the right to present a negative review of your review of Polaris. Simple as that!

A10 = wisest stratoforum user

xD xD xD

NeverendingAbyss · Post by **NeverendingAbyss** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:34 pm

Verdades Parias · Post by **Verdades Parias** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:53 pm

Timo Tolkki is ignoring so much factors...but what the hell, like he said in RR forum, there's only music and opinions.

One thing is: Is obvious that is not HIS Stratovarius.

Two: About the "Soul"....I'd said to him directly, Saana for example, for christ sake, is a tremendous tear, and thats all, I can't see the Opera, less the rock. TOOO MUCH SOUL

Three: Much of Techqnique. Saying that, Winter Sky, When Mountains fall, are Steve Vai song...I was tearing my heart away with WS.

Have an opinion of your ex-band, well my friend....you said one time "STRATO IS ALIVE AND WELL"...like Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman: Well, when the bow breaks, the cradle will fall. And it has fallen here; it has fallen

CES · Post by **CES** » Wed May 20, 2009 9:55 pm

En extremt tråkig person wrote:
CES wrote: Really, it makes for a fascinating study on the pettiness of music fans though I'm sure any musician is more than familiar with that.
Musicians aren't immune to that either as this little collection of thinly veiled digs dressed up as objective comments illustrates. "A guy who played just 2 tours", that's nice. Lauri still managed to come up with better material than TT has in a decade Just an opinion of course.

Well, to be a musician, you have to be a fan of music, yes? You'd be pretty fucking stupid if you weren't.

Star_Ocean · Post by **Star_Ocean** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:34 pm

Not everyone is going to like the same thing. It's just that there are so many immature music fans out there that cannot handle negativity of a band or album that they love. It's pathetic, so they have to pointlessly hate on the person or subtly bash them because they can't grow up.

It's not a personal attack by Timo, it's an opinion. And, in fact, I'd say if this WERE a world where one opinion was more valid than another, I'd say that Timo's opinion is more valid than any one of the people bashing him for disliking it. But it's not that kind of world, and for that alone, this thread should have never been brought up. His opinion is just as valid as any of ours.

This topic should have never been brought up in the first place. It's just an opinion, deal with it. Timo can handle all of the criticism thrown at him for AoA and Saana, so why can't fans, who had NOTHING to do with the creation of Polaris, handle criticism of music that isn't even their's?

we have the right to present a negative review of your review of Polaris. Simple as that!

Just thought I'd point this out. If you're criticizing someone's personal writing in a review, then it's okay to give a "negative review" of a review. But you aren't reviewing his writing or validity, you're immaturely bashing his opinion, which is NOT okay.

Jeez, people need to grow up. It's just an album. It's not anything that is going to determine the fate of mankind.

TimoTolkki · Post by **TimoTolkki** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:47 pm

Fuck, please dont start fighting because of what I wrote.
I just copypaste here what I wrote in RR forum. Peace to all

"There is really no need for any fighting over this. Fuck had I known this, I would not written my "Polaris review", I mean it's just an opinion of one person. We can agree to disagree.
And although I have different opinion about the "new Strato" than Jens & co, that also doesnt mean that there has to be a fight. I dont claim to know anything, I am just a music lover and a human being. And although I dont like Polaris, I can applaud to its Finnish TOP 40 number 2 chart position. That is amazing result. That is something I cannot deny and as I have said, the fans are always right. So in this case I am just plain wrong. Maybe I have been the factor in Stratovarius that had to be removed. Then it's just up to me to bow and say: amazing. And I would be happy of any success of any metal band in the charts."

rikkertje · Post by **rikkertje** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Well those are clear and good words. And now I hope this topic will be locked so that we can all go on enjoying MUSIC. And stop fighting.

kajnym44 · Post by **kajnym44** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:58 pm

Hi!

Having just listened to all but the last two songs on polaris, I am having a VERY HARD time understanding what mr. Tolkki means by there being no good guitar solos on Polaris, how about the ones on Forever is today and Higher We Go? Are not they Good? And what about the one on Somehow Precious?

Secondly, about there being no 'soul' in/on Polaris is quite a load of bo***cks: of course Timo T. will think this as he is no longer in the band, this is only natural, after all. In fact, apart from the guitar solo thing, which I just cannot understand (!!), I quite understand WHY Tolkki feels the way he does, partly because I have had similar mental problems (etc.) like him.

Nevertheless, all this arguing about Polaris is POINTLESS, the 2nd place in the Finnish charts speaks for itself, right?? At the end, it is NEVER about ONE member in a metal band! No one believed Tarja Turunen could be replaced well in Nightwish and look how they are doing now!

Lurdi · Post by **Lurdi** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:09 pm

:fail:

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:10 pm

Star_Ocean wrote:Not everyone is going to like the same thing. It's just that there are so many immature music fans out there that cannot handle negativity of a band or album that they love. It's pathetic, so they have to pointlessly hate on the person or subtly bash them because they can't grow up.

It's not a personal attack by Timo, it's an opinion. And, in fact, I'd say if this WERE a world where one opinion was more valid than another, I'd say that Timo's opinion is more valid than any one of the people bashing him for disliking it. But it's not that kind of world, and for that alone, this thread should have never been brought up. His opinion is just as valid as any of ours.

This topic should have never been brought up in the first place. It's just an opinion, deal with it. Timo can handle all of the criticism thrown at him for AoA and Saana, so why can't fans, who had NOTHING to do with the creation of Polaris, handle criticism of music that isn't even their's?

we have the right to present a negative review of your review of Polaris. Simple as that!

Just thought I'd point this out. If you're criticizing someone's personal writing in a review, then it's okay to give a "negative review" of a review. But you aren't reviewing his writing or validity, you're immaturely bashing his opinion, which is NOT okay.

Jeez, people need to grow up. It's just an album. It's not anything that is going to determine the fate of mankind.

it's seems that you got here late, man. the party was already over.

As he has his opinions I have mine, and so the other people who complained.

when you throw negativity on something you have to be ready to receive it back, that's all, that's how life works.

And if you think that I am pathetic, childish or whatever, well... I don't give a damn Mr. Mature.

Star_Ocean wrote: And I HATE King of Nothing, because the chorus is so fucking lame. Almost every chorus is fucking lame.

Lately, I feel like I was being generous when I originally reviewed this album for my local newspaper and gave it a 3/5. I'd probably give it a 2/5, because after listening to it at least 10 times, I can't even sing a single chorus on the song because I don't fucking remember them.

and this is not immaturely bashing?

oh no, i suppose it's a perfectly valid negative review. "I hate this song! because.. it's lame!"

and... so now the album is bad because you suffer from Alzheimer? xD

now I understand, you probably are like 80 y/o, and this explains your great maturity

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:14 pm

Lurdi wrote::fail:

hey! this is like an emoticon? how cool, I didn't know this. I'll probably use it later on

:fail:

Aldaron · Post by **Aldaron** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:32 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: "There is really no need for any fighting over this. Fuck had I known this, I would not written my "Polaris review", I mean it's just an opinion of one person. We can agree to disagree.
And although I have different opinion about the "new Strato" than Jens & co, that also doesnt mean that there has to be a fight. I dont claim to know anything, I am just a music lover and a human being. And although I dont like Polaris, I can applaud to its Finnish TOP 40 number 2 chart position. That is amazing result. That is something I cannot deny and as I have said, the fans are always right. So in this case I am just plain wrong. Maybe I have been the factor in Stratovarius that had to be removed. Then it's just up to me to bow and say: amazing. And I would be happy of any success of any metal band in the charts."

I was going to stay out of this, but this post broke my resolve. Timo, you can't say one thing at one time, and then something else later and your final word is the final impression readers must have. They will draw their impressions from everything they hear and read. Right now you say, "It's just the opinion of one person" and "I don't claim to know anything, I am just a music lover and a human being." as if your opinion shouldn't matter any more than, well, let's say mine. That's bull and you know it. In your review your wrote:

"I bought it yesterday out of let's say morbid curiosity towards a band in which I spent 23 years of my life in and to see in which path the music has been taken."

The use of the word morbid is very negative, btw, but more importantly, you set the tone of your review by reminding everyone, in case anyone forgot, that YOU spent 23 years in the band, Thus there is no way anyone can treat your review like any ordinary ole music lover just expressing their opinion. Your opinion will carry more weight or venom because of your history with the band and, unfortunately, the nastiness of recent events.
So yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend that you are surprised when that opinion, laced with negativity, riles people up.
Sure, you are right, some people overreact, but you had to know that would be the case. If you want peace in the Strato world and harmony between fans of yours, theirs and both, think more carefully before you speak/write. You can't take it back or make people impressions go away, once they've read what you've said.

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:40 pm

Jens need to lock this topic asap xD

Buckethead · Post by **Buckethead** » Thu May 21, 2009 12:47 am

This wont never end... just enjoy the music and let all this other shit be... what does it matter what someone else thinks of POLARIS than you yourself. That is the only thing that matter's if you let other's opinnion affect you'r opinnion on POLARIS(or in anything else) then you my friend's i really bity you. if you like POLARIS then by all means let us know..and even if you dont feel free to tell us but i personaly dont give a shit no matter who's opinnion it is.

Tolkki just stated he's feeling's of this new album and he didnt find it to be that much of interesting...and now because of it we the fans start to bash all kind of shit again... like Tolkki said he is only humanbeing...i personally love POLARIS but then i would have love'd to have Tolkki making it as well...for me Tolkki is one of the greatest songwriter's amongst sonata arctica's tony kakko.

I managed to keep out of this for all these years this shit had been going on and tought that mayby now we the FANS had managed to move on and leave the past behind like so many of you fan's keep on telling Tolkki to do. But look's like it jus wont happen. And what if Tolkki regret's that he left stratovarius it aint something any of us should be thinking of.

Sadly tough i didnt find RR's albums to be that good ,mayby it just takes time to get used to not to hear TK singing Tolkki's song's. It was the perfect line up..like Tolkki said in some interview that when he heard TK singing he instantly knew that TK was the one to take on as the vocalist for stratovarius.

Just let it be fella's..just let it be.. hmh it's a song by The Beatles ..right??

Beast_Pete · Post by **Beast_Pete** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:37 am

TimoTolkki wrote:...That is something I cannot deny and as I have said, the fans are always right. So in this case I am just plain wrong. Maybe I have been the factor in Stratovarius that had to be removed. Then it's just up to me to bow and say: amazing. And I would be happy of any success of any metal band in the charts."

Those are words I like in you more. Admiting is always the most difficult thing to do in life. Glad you managed in the end...

systray · Post by **systray** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:58 am

Well guys, here's my opinion.

My favorite Stato-albums are Visions and Infinite. I listen to Stratovarius since Kotipelto's join into Stratovarius.

I mostly like neoclassical elements in this music, so it's easy to understand why I prefer this two albums.

Another good album I think are the unreleased RR demos. I was very unhappy about the message that Stratovarius will end up. Now I bought Polaris and Age of Aquarius, too. I can understand Tolkki's criticism, that this album has no soul or spirit. Don't understand me wrong: I think Polaris is a real good and powerful album. But it isn't Stratovarius-like and for me it sounds a bit copied. Some songs from this album sounds like Kotipelto's soloalbums, but I ever liked that songs, too. That's normal by the reason, that's the main composer isn't there anymore. Nothing easier to understand than that I think.

Well I like the Polaris album and I'm often listening to it, but I prefer AOA. I have to accept, that there are now two different bands with different line-ups. Now I'm curious about the next recordings from both bands.

Greets and sorry for my worse english

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:11 am

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one"
Larry Flynt

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:42 am

I had a good amount of time to think on this today and my opinion is still the same, I refuse to pick a side, I'm still going to support the remaining Strato members and I'm still going to support Tolkki.

I mean Tolkki came over here to apoligize for even starting a fight and we are STILL bashing him. I mean do we have to whip and beat someone until we've broken their spirit?

I agree with many of the others, let's move on, enjoy the music and quit playing the blame game.

rikkertje · Post by **rikkertje** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:04 am

browneyedgirl wrote:"Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one"
Larry Flynt

+ 9000!!!!!!!

stratodan1990 · Post by **stratodan1990** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:35 am

TimoTolkki wrote:We will see how long this band lives because its fate will be tested with a far bigger amount of people than those in Great Britain. Neither by 50 people in internet forum.

I think this says it all really. I don't even have to comment on this to show or prove such bitterness. Not to mention the fact that a band doesn't just have it's fate tested among the amount of 'fans'.

stratodan1990 · Post by **stratodan1990** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:44 am

TimoTolkki wrote:"There is really no need for any fighting over this. Fuck had I known this, I would not written my "Polaris review", I mean it's just an opinion of one person. We can agree to disagree.

I think it was just the negativity of it. And the word 'Morbid' especially.

TimoTolkki wrote:So in this case I am just plain wrong. Maybe I have been the factor in Stratovarius that had to be removed.

Yes.

Bublix · Post by **Bublix** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:07 pm

If you don´t like Timo´s review, do not read it. You may disagree (as I do) with it, but there is no point of complaining and crying about that... I wish good luck and peace to both... Statovarius and RR, because both of them deserves it.

AND OF COURSE SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH xD

CHEERS FORM CZECH REPUBLIC!

mayhem-for-all · Post by **mayhem-for-all** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:19 pm

If you don´t like Timo´s review, do not read it. You may disagree (as I do) with it, but there is no point of complaining and crying about that... I wish good luck and peace to both... Statovarius and RR, because both of them deserves it.

Exactly.
We should just leave him alone. I mean we can't change his opinnion and why to complain to him about it.
Well yes it is annoying that he keeps being negative towards strato but so are many other people in the world.

Jabi · Post by **Jabi** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:20 pm

Bublix wrote:If you don´t like Timo´s review, do not read it.

If someone doesn't like it (s)he probably has already read it.

Stratovarius Community

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guitar solos and 'soul'

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