VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

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JensJohansson
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by JensJohansson » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:48 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:I can love, hate, like, dislike, anything and anyone I want and I won't even think twice or ask for permission. Democracy gives me this right as I understand it.
Damn right, and if you want to openly reveal what kind of person you are and type that you just plain hate gay people, you're allowed to in this place as well without getting banned (unless you do it in a highly annoying way.) There's not much of a safety net here but plenty of rope to hang yourself with... :)

Well, if you wanna find any sort of "official" document giving you free rights of opinion, maybe the UN declaration of human rights article 18. Most countries on Earth have acknowledged those concepts into their national laws. (But note that the declaration of human rights speaks of people's right to be gay as well)

It might anyway be a better starting point instead of just invoking "democracy".

After all, democratic processes in Sweden created hate speech laws. Technically you are breaking Swedish law with your statements. But the server for this forum is located in California so you're in the clear legally.

If you started seriously advocating harming gay people I would have more of a problem with it personally..

Regarding the issue itself I do have to say I disagree with you, and it seems a lot of other people here do as well. Such is life!

I made plenty of inroads into the entertainment industry without having to do the bidding of any secret gay cabal. But if you have had a bad experience that way I am truly sorry, that sounds nasty :lol:

Of course you are right that there is some sort of inconsistency that some people think it's OK to hate haters, but not OK to hate gays. I think it's because gayness is not a choice, and hating is perceived as a choice. I cannot imagine anything that's less of a choice than sexual orientation.

I believe that for all practical purposes, everyone is wired at birth to be attracted to whatever sex people they are attracted to, later in life.

Flame on! If it gets bad I'll move it to flames. Maybe that's where Varg belongs anyway, in a little flaming cage. Because he looks like such a cuddly wuddly wittle gay Nazi wolf in that picture.. he looks flamingly gay actually, and I hope he found himself a well-equipped boy toy in his stint in jail, so his anus is nicely prepared for when he makes the next fuckup and they haul his sorry ass back in there again :lol:

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:45 am

JensJohansson wrote:
Bathory Killcraft wrote:I can love, hate, like, dislike, anything and anyone I want and I won't even think twice or ask for permission. Democracy gives me this right as I understand it.
Damn right, and if you want to openly reveal what kind of person you are and type that you just plain hate gay people, you're allowed to in this place as well without getting banned (unless you do it in a highly annoying way.) There's not much of a safety net here but plenty of rope to hang yourself with... :)

Well, if you wanna find any sort of "official" document giving you free rights of opinion, maybe the UN declaration of human rights article 18. Most countries on Earth have acknowledged those concepts into their national laws. (But note that the declaration of human rights speaks of people's right to be gay as well)

It might anyway be a better starting point instead of just invoking "democracy".

After all, democratic processes in Sweden created hate speech laws. Technically you are breaking Swedish law with your statements. But the server for this forum is located in California so you're in the clear legally.

If you started seriously advocating harming gay people I would have more of a problem with it personally..

Regarding the issue itself I do have to say I disagree with you, and it seems a lot of other people here do as well. Such is life!

I made plenty of inroads into the entertainment industry without having to do the bidding of any secret gay cabal. But if you have had a bad experience that way I am truly sorry, that sounds nasty :lol:

Of course you are right that there is some sort of inconsistency that some people think it's OK to hate haters, but not OK to hate gays. I think it's because gayness is not a choice, and hating is perceived as a choice. I cannot imagine anything that's less of a choice than sexual orientation.

I believe that for all practical purposes, everyone is wired at birth to be attracted to whatever sex people they are attracted to, later in life.

Flame on! If it gets bad I'll move it to flames. Maybe that's where Varg belongs anyway, in a little flaming cage. Because he looks like such a cuddly wuddly wittle gay Nazi wolf in that picture.. he looks flamingly gay actually, and I hope he found himself a well-equipped boy toy in his stint in jail, so his anus is nicely prepared for when he makes the next fuckup and they haul his sorry ass back in there again :lol:
That's what I wanted to say :lol:
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Carcass » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:23 pm

JensJohansson wrote:Of course you are right that there is some sort of inconsistency that some people think it's OK to hate haters, but not OK to hate gays.
i.e. hating gay haters is just as legitimate as hating gays in the first place. Amidoinitrite?

For the record: I don't hate gay haters, there are plenty of people I like who are, to a smaller or greater extent, xeno- and/or homophobic.

EDIT: And certainly I am too, more than I wish to admit.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by RazielSR » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:48 pm

As usual, The Offspring rules.

I hate a lot of things
I hate a lot of people that are lame
I like to hate stuff
Cause then I don't havae to try and make
A change
I hate teachers
I hate school
I hate the cheerleaders
And anyone who's cool
I hate the office
I hate the Quad
Don't wanna learn nothing
I want to be a slob

It's cool to hate
It's cool to hate
I don't like nothing and I like that fine
(Liking something's just a waste of time)
It's cool to hate
It's cool to hate
I don't like nothing and I like that fine
(Liking something's just a waste of time)
I don't like nothing and like that fine
(Liking something's just a waste of time)
Yeah I hate everything
I even hate you too
So fuck you

I'm always thinking bad
I never have nothing good to say
I'd rather tear things down
Than build them up
It's easier that way
I hate the jocks
And I hate the geeks
I hate the trendies
But I also hate the freaks
I hate Dr. Martens
And Muscle T's
I'm only happy when I'm in my misery
I'll cut you down and give you lip
Being positive's so unhip
I'll cut you down cause I'm a fool
Being positive's so uncool

I hate the jocks
And I hate the geeks
I hate the trendies
But I also hate the freaks
I hate your band
And I hate TV
I'm only happy when I'm in my misery



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qcHohp4apI
...Faster than light, higher than the sky, stronger than steel...We´re the legions of the Twilight...

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:11 pm

I can't quite understand the reaction of almost every single party involved in this particular thread/discussion to an opposing view. The polemic is incredible.

I wonder if people show the same zealous sensitivity to other difficult subjects and discourses as well.

For the record, I wish no harm to nobody, btw.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by browneyedgirl » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:40 pm

Well, BathoryK, haven't you ever heard the saying, "If you want to get along with people don't discuss differing viewpoints about sex, religion, politics, or(music, in the case of THIS forum)."
:lol:
Yes, I know. Doesn't leave much to talk about. :)

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:47 pm

how do i delete this?
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Stealth » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:49 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:I can't quite understand the reaction of almost every single party involved in this particular thread/discussion to an opposing view. The polemic is incredible.

I wonder if people show the same zealous sensitivity to other difficult subjects and discourses as well.

For the record, I wish no harm to nobody, btw.
Of course you are entitled to an opinion and as long as you don't actually harm anyone, that's fine. Even though I disagree with your views on homosexuals, it's not the use of the word "hate" I have a problem with, but the fact that you have not provided a single clear explanation as to why you hate them. Your comment about the entertainment industry proves nothing. First of all, I'm sure there are tons of people who control the media, and most of them are probably not gay. Second of all, greed and a "lust for profit" are, as far as I know, not an inherent characteristic of homosexuality.
So my question is, WHY exactly do you hate homosexuals? What are the EXCLUSIVE "traits" of homosexuality that make you hate them? In other words, what do homosexuals do, say, or have that heterosexuals could never do, say, or have? What makes them unique apart from their sexual preferences? And I don't want any rants about stuff that any of us could be guilty of. For all I know, you could be greedier than gays in the entertainment industry.
If irony were made of strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now.

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Bathory Killcraft
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:43 pm

Stealth wrote: So my question is, WHY exactly do you hate homosexuals?
Can you first tell me why do you rush to defend them?
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:27 am

Listen for the record I have no desire to hurt anyone, I may disagree with you bathory but that doesn't mean that I wish bodily harm upon you.
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:43 am

holding hate shows a desire to not get along

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:57 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Stealth wrote: So my question is, WHY exactly do you hate homosexuals?
Can you first tell me why do you rush to defend them?
Because there is no reason for hating them. I know a few homosexuals. They're very nice people. Everything you've written so far to justify your hate is just utter and complete bullshit. Nothing of it is true. So please tell my, WHY exactly do you hate homosexuals?

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:13 am

Most homophobic people are closet cases themselves.

Just sayin'.
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:23 am

icecab21 wrote:holding hate shows a desire to not get along
History has taught otherwise. By putting people who don't get along together. The results are more or less well known and tragic.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:39 am

NeonVomit wrote:Most homophobic people are closet cases themselves.

Just sayin'.
Can you back that up with evidence? Or is it another "Hitler was a Jew" thing.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:45 am

Ragehead91 wrote:Because there is no reason for hating them.
For me there is. Plenty of reason. Not for the entity itself obviously as this is by large out of ones control but for the disposition and the effect and implication it has in social, ethical and biological structures.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:47 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:Because there is no reason for hating them.
For me there is. Plenty of reason. Not for the entity itself obviously as this is by large out of ones control but for the disposition and the effect and implication it has in social, ethical and biological structures.
Could you please be more exact?

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:27 am

There are plenty of examples of people that once hated each other that have gotten to know each other and gained respect for the other person.

It would make a interesting show to have a person that hates someone have the choice between being saved by the person they hate or die.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Stealth » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:58 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Stealth wrote: So my question is, WHY exactly do you hate homosexuals?
Can you first tell me why do you rush to defend them?
Since I asked you first, you should have answered and then asked me why I defend them, but to avoid any delays, I will just say that my answer is pretty much implied in the questions I have asked you. I'm not saying that gays don't have the potential for being bad people (what you consider "bad" here is up to you); I'm saying that however gays may behave and whatever they may do or say, their actions have no biological ties to homosexuality. They can be bad people for the same reasons anyone else can be bad. Conversely, they can be good for the same reasons anyone else can. I think you use homosexuality as a scapegoat. It allows you to easily assign a cause for social deviance/misbehaviour to a specific group of people. As I have already mentioned, there is nothing homosexuals do, think, or say that heterosexuals cannot do, think, or say. In terms of social conduct, there is nothing unique about homosexuality apart from sexual preference.
Just out of curiosity (not that it matters), where are you from?

I have given you an answer. I hope you'll honour me with yours.
If irony were made of strawberries, we'd all be drinking a lot of smoothies right now.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by sanichi » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Stealth wrote: I have given you an answer. I hope you'll honour me with yours.
Quite right, that would be interesting to hear indeed.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:00 pm

sanichi wrote:
Stealth wrote: I have given you an answer. I hope you'll honour me with yours.
Quite right, that would be interesting to hear indeed.
Indeed. Until now he was rather reserved when it comes to actually explain his hate instead of just saying "gays are bad!". Barring the "You have to bend over to make it in showbiz" and "Being gay is the coolest thing since sliced bread" bullshit he gave us nothing that actually makes sence or justifies his hate. It is like talking to a brick wall.
"I hate gays! They're evil!"
"Okay, why do you hate them?"
"I hate them because they're evil!"
"Why are they evil?"
"BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIL!"

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by rini » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:41 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
sanichi wrote:
Stealth wrote: I have given you an answer. I hope you'll honour me with yours.
Quite right, that would be interesting to hear indeed.
Indeed. Until now he was rather reserved when it comes to actually explain his hate instead of just saying "gays are bad!". Barring the "You have to bend over to make it in showbiz" and "Being gay is the coolest thing since sliced bread" bullshit he gave us nothing that actually makes sence or justifies his hate. It is like talking to a brick wall.
"I hate gays! They're evil!"
"Okay, why do you hate them?"
"I hate them because they're evil!"
"Why are they evil?"
"BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIL!"
Might that be because "gay-people" do the exact same things as all other human beings?
Listening to music, watching movies, go out to the town shopping, eating food. :lol:

I think it's unjustified to say that you hate gay-people. Sure, you might hate or not get along with certain individuals that happen to be gay, but that's not a reason to hate an entire group of people.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:53 pm

rini wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:
sanichi wrote:
Stealth wrote: I have given you an answer. I hope you'll honour me with yours.
Quite right, that would be interesting to hear indeed.
Indeed. Until now he was rather reserved when it comes to actually explain his hate instead of just saying "gays are bad!". Barring the "You have to bend over to make it in showbiz" and "Being gay is the coolest thing since sliced bread" bullshit he gave us nothing that actually makes sence or justifies his hate. It is like talking to a brick wall.
"I hate gays! They're evil!"
"Okay, why do you hate them?"
"I hate them because they're evil!"
"Why are they evil?"
"BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIL!"
Might that be because "gay-people" do the exact same things as all other human beings?
Listening to music, watching movies, go out to the town shopping, eating food. :lol:

I think it's unjustified to say that you hate gay-people. Sure, you might hate or not get along with certain individuals that happen to be gay, but that's not a reason to hate an entire group of people.
I think that is the point that we're trying to make. They have to potential to be evil but everyone hast that potential. And I'm sure there are a few homosexual arseholes out there but overall they're no different that is not a reason to hate them all. They're not much different then we are. They only prefer the same sex.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:26 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:Most homophobic people are closet cases themselves.

Just sayin'.
Can you back that up with evidence? Or is it another "Hitler was a Jew" thing.
Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:26 pm

hitler was gay though so....but hitler does not represent all gays. there are books on it if people need to see the evedence i can link.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:03 pm

I just don't understand hating anyone unless they've horribly wronged you in some way.
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:13 pm

My thought on the ishue is.. Understanding is different from accepting as reasonable behavior that is benefits an individual or a society. I understand that people can feel certain ways, but I also understand that there are other ways to feel that are healthier.

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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:26 pm

hiro23 wrote:I just don't understand hating anyone unless they've horribly wronged you in some way.
It's called discrimination.

And since we're on the subject...
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by hiro23 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:44 pm

Oh I know all about discrimination, people have treated me horribly my whole life simply because I am autistic.
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Re: VARG VIKERNES Is A Free Man!

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:44 am

Uuuhhhm very interesting opinions all of them but I have to do some gay bashing right now and I'll be with you asap :)
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