Immigration in europe and scandinavia

[Stealth]

It's true that the time frame of European settlements is very broad, but we do know when lots of populations were conquered, invaded, colonized, etc., even though those events happened over thousands of years.
Although issues regarding indigenous peoples in Europe may seem mild in comparison to what happened in other places, I don't think that that has a lot to do with Europeans being more tolerant. I think the issues in Europe are milder simply because the indigenous populations are almost insignificant (how many are there anyways, apart from a small number of Saami?) and don't pose a threat to other cultures/ethnicities/religions/nationalities or whatever category you may think of. Plus, they have no strong (if any at all) representation in governmental affairs.

[Stealth]

Americas colonisation have nothing to do with "European colonisation", Europe countries invading other Europe countries, etc, etc. It's a completely different thing.

How so? Again, in terms of time frames, it's a different situation, no doubt. But in general terms, putting time frames aside, an invasion is an invasion. Besides, it's easy to say today that a European population invading another European population a thousand years ago doesn't compare to what happened in the Americas, but I wonder what the invaded European population would have to say about that...

[NeonVomit]

I have a lot to say about that as it has affected me personally (being from Cyprus and all) but that's worthy of another thread and I'd rather not derail this one. There are disputed territories within Europe, for sure.

[RazielSR]

Stealth, ....well, I can't tell you . Here in Spain the original people were the Iberians (this name was Greek's idea, then it was Hispania by the Romans cause the original name the Phoenicians said was very similar to Hispania or something like that).

The first other people who invaded the Iberians a bit were the Phoenicians (who founded cities like:

Gadir = Cádiz = today
Sexi = Almuñécar today
Abdera = Adra today


Then the Cartaginians, founded Cartago Nova = Cartagena today.

Then the Greeks invaded a little more and founded cities like:

Hemeroscopeion = Denia today
Malaka = Málaga today
Alonis = Benidorm today
Rode = Rosas today
Emporion = Ampurias today
Akra Leuka = Alicante today


Then the romans invaded everything but País Vasco. They founded a lot of cities like Valencia for example, and bla bla bla.

Then the muslims invaded the south of Spain (Andalucia was completely invaded for the muslims), for that you can see some cities and towns everywhere in Spain with AL at the beginning, cause the muslims reinvented the name. Even some historians say that "Hola" have something to do with "Allāh".

But the culture here is completely mediterranean and roman (mainly because the spaniards exterminate almost all the muslims here in a -really- bloddy and devastating battle called La Reconquista). There was a gothic kingdom in that days.
The Romans were the main people here and the christianization was started here and in Italy. Then it went everywhere becasue of the Romans and later because of the Spanish Empire (when the Americas).

So I don't know what the iberians could think about it.

[Stealth]

Exactly, so my point is that the invasions weren't any less terrible for any of them than it was for, let's say, the Incas, the Mayans and the Aztecs. But still, what I want to emphasize is that it is very difficult to talk about original inhabitants. People use the term lightly. And there are no "pure" populations left. There have been way too many migrations for anyone to claim that they are 100%, "pure" whatever. And yes, that includes South American natives, Australian aborigines, Papuan tribes, etc.

[RazielSR]

I agree, it is very difficult to talk about original inhabitants.

[Carcass]

You forgot the Celts and the Visigoths. And al-Andalus covered a lot more than just the southern part of Iberian Peninsula.


@Stealth, some argue that the Basques are an indigenous people. Don't know if that is mere nationalist propaganda or some scientific shite. The argument is that they were saved from all the aforementioned 'invasions', or whatever.

EDIT: Phew, deleted some rambling stuff.

[Carcass]

But still, what I want to emphasize is that it is very difficult to talk about original inhabitants. People use the term lightly. And there are no "pure" populations left. There have been way too many migrations for anyone to claim that they are 100%, "pure" whatever. And yes, that includes South American natives, Australian aborigines, Papuan tribes, etc.

Good and legit points.

[Ikola]

From the first post;

. I have read many things about Malmö, Sweden; in which some swedes have been harassed by muslims and sometimes raped or got beated up;

I live 300meters from the "problem" area in malmö and it's not bad at all. When I first moved here there was some fighting and stuff going on on the other side of the main road that separates the 2 parts of Rosengård but those were mostly caused by middle class youngsters from other areas trying to piss the police off and trying to "reclaim rosengård". The organizers of reclaim the streets tried to do one of these "protests" but the afa/ung vänster/ and other "rebellious" organisations got chased away from rosengård by the ppl living there since the ppl who live in rosengård are REALLY fucking tired of all the shit going on. Since that day there has been very few incidents.

The underlying problem was and is high unemployment and nothing for the kids to do around here. Now they have tried to sort out lots of more activities for young ppl and they are working on the housing standards (which are horrible atm due to a private company totally ignoring general care of the buildings leading to mold problems etc etc). Also alot more action is taken to make it easier for ppl to get work around here.

These social problems are not caused by any particular group though. You claim that it's because of muslims and ppl from the middle east. I say that is a fucking bad asessment and very racist.

In the late 50's we hade similar problems in similar areas but they were inhabited by christian swedish people. It's nothing about the colour of your skin or your religion that cause these problems, it's just a matter of social situation and mistakes by the government.

peace out from me

[RazielSR]

You forgot the Celts and the Visigoths. And al-Andalus covered a lot more than just the southern part of Iberian Peninsula.


@Stealth, some argue that the Basques are an indigenous people. Don't know if that is mere nationalist propaganda or some scientific shite. The argument is that they were saved from all the aforementioned 'invasions', or whatever.

EDIT: Phew, deleted some rambling stuff.

No, I don't.

And I meant with the south, that it was in the south , mainly Andalucia, were the muslims had bigger influence, of course they were everywhere. But the main cities were in Andalucia. You know, even Flamenco, a typical dance from Andalucia is similar to the arabic rythms.

And The Basque country was not "saved". It was just ignored because nobody found interesting that place in the north due to his difficulties regarding everything. But some stupid propaganda mainly from a terrorist group you all know, say things like that.

[NeverendingAbyss]

HUUUUUUUU

NEA did that video??? I had no idea he was a fundamentalist. What do you know??

It's NEFA. Apparently the F is subliminally hidden.

[JensJohansson]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011510.php

[Pekka Nurmi]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011510.php

That information is correct. My ancestors successfully raised goats and made Europe what it is today.

Yours,
Pekka

[mayhem-for-all]

Most modern European males descend from farmers who migrated from the Near East

Yeah and we are all of African descent.
All Homo Sapienses are orginally from africa.
Neanderthals however lived in Europe before us.

[AAAAAAAAA]

HUUUUUUUU

NEA did that video??? I had no idea he was a fundamentalist. What do you know??

It's NEFA. Apparently the F is

subliminally hidden.

Aha! I understand! Never Ending Fundamentalist Abyss. Very well hidden ! I had no idea. Puh. Fundamentalist!!! Wow.

[AAAAAAAAA]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011510.php

That information is correct. My ancestors successfully raised goats and made Europe what it is today.

Yours,
Pekka

And what are your plans for America ?

[browneyedgirl]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011510.php

That information is correct. My ancestors successfully raised goats and made Europe what it is today.

Yours,
Pekka

And what are your plans for America ?

Urge everyone to go Chevron(goat meat) instead of beef, maybe?

Well, it does taste good---better than chicken!

[AGAG]

From the first post;

. I have read many things about Malmö, Sweden; in which some swedes have been harassed by muslims and sometimes raped or got beated up;

These social problems are not caused by any particular group though. You claim that it's because of muslims and ppl from the middle east. I say that is a fucking bad asessment and very racist.

In the late 50's we hade similar problems in similar areas but they were inhabited by christian swedish people. It's nothing about the colour of your skin or your religion that cause these problems, it's just a matter of social situation and mistakes by the government.

peace out from me

Never Intended to be racist, not much problems has to do with race I reckon but if a black guy or a latin-american guy kills and rapes someone in america, is it racist for the newspaper to declare they were black or latin? I think is just mentioning some facts, not racism. Maybe my sources are fucked up
(http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6251 ,

From wikipedia: "In the late 1990s a new kind of crime drew the attention of media: muggings among youths. This phenomenon bears a strong relationship to the waves of immigrants that arrived in Sweden the 1990s.[citation needed]. Some examples that (sometimes unfairly) came to define the situation in respective city were Bergsjön in Göteborg; Rinkeby in Stockholm; and Rosengård in Malmö.

These areas with their (relatively) low socioeconomic standard and high unemployment led to segregation, and at the same time the rate of foreigner related crimes were reported as being at a significant for Swedish standards but nothing in comparison with the rest of the world. The truth of this were much disputed in Swedish media. Opponents maintain this to be a result of xenophobia, hostility and misunderstanding. Yet results continuously show the undisputed facts of foreigners from the low-standard socio-economical neighbourhoods as much more likely crime suspects. In Malmö, the person injured was a native Swede in 71% of cases; the suspect mugger was however foreign-born in 61% of cases."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden )

That's why I asked here, I wanted to be sure it was sensationalism, I still have faith in human beings in general.

Btw it's great to know that from someone who lives directly, without the filters news have to go through to reach some people here and I'm really glad that is mainly a social issue, not a race or religion one and that we have solutions for.

[Babylonian]

These videos are made of neo nazis, who hates muslims instead of jews. Don't fall for it. It's alarming, that extreme right populist parties has been rose in Europe.

[miditek]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011510.php

That information is correct. My ancestors successfully raised goats and made Europe what it is today.

Yours,
Pekka

How ironic! Now, the new invaders of Europe seem to have some sort of odd erotic preference for goats, if you see what I mean.

[Mormegil]

These videos are made of neo nazis, who hates muslims instead of jews.

So what? It doesn't make the facts and statistics they state any less true.

[mayhem-for-all]

Oh and for this topic starter:
Scandinavia (Which actually consits of just Sweden and Norway) is part of Europe.

You could just as well say Europe and the British isles.
Or Europe and Central-Europe

But it is not important or even close to important.

[miditek]

These videos are made of neo nazis, who hates muslims instead of jews. Don't fall for it. It's alarming, that extreme right populist parties has been rose in Europe.

You need to read up a bit more on the rather sordid (but quite true) history of collaboration between the Nazis and their Muzz sidekicks.

There were entire brigades of Bosnian muzz that volunteered for service in the notorious Waffen-SS "Hussar" units, who had been recruited by none other than the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem- and at Hitler's request.

To this day Hitler remains a cult figure throughout much of the muslim world, and to say that there are neo-nazis that don't hate Jews is ridiculous.

[Babylonian]

These videos are made of neo nazis, who hates muslims instead of jews.

So what? It doesn't make the facts and statistics they state any less true.

Why do you accept hate towards muslims? I see no sense in hating people because different religion. Nationalism/nazism has been killer much more people, than radical Islam.

You need to read up a bit more on the rather sordid (but quite true) history of collaboration between the Nazis and their Muzz sidekicks.

There were entire brigades of Bosnian muzz that volunteered for service in the notorious Waffen-SS "Hussar" units, who had been recruited by none other than the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem- and at Hitler's request.

To this day Hitler remains a cult figure throughout much of the muslim world, and to say that there are neo-nazis that don't hate Jews is ridiculous.

Nowadays neo nazis aren't same as 1940 nazis was. Nowaday's nazi parties message is hate towards Muslims and Africans, there's lot of examples in Europe. Like I said before, why we have to hate people because different religion?

[Mormegil]

Why do you accept hate towards muslims? I see no sense in hating people because different religion.

Islam, not muslims. There's a huge difference you know.
I do not only accept, but strongly support hate towards any totalirian ideologies, theocracy, threats to free speech, female circumcision and violation of human rights.
I'd really appreciate if all those and everyone who supported them stayed on the other side of the Istanbul Strait.

Nationalism/nazism has been killer much more people, than radical Islam.

Nazism only lasted about a decade, while Islam has been around for 1500 years, so it seems highly improbable.
And there's nothing nationalistic in radical Islam?

[Carcass]

I don't see what Bosnian SS-volunteers have to do with anything.

And there's nothing nationalistic in radical Islam?

Actually, no. Re-establishing of the Caliphate by uniting all muslim countries is the goal of various radical movements. No that it makes radical Islam more attractive.

[miditek]

Nowadays neo nazis aren't same as 1940 nazis was. Nowaday's nazi parties message is hate towards Muslims and Africans, there's lot of examples in Europe. Like I said before, why we have to hate people because different religion?

Of course there are differences- in 1940 Nazism was a state-sponsored ideology that had already crushed six countries (not counting Germany itself), while modern neo nazis today are little more than rabble rousing idiots that are in not even in the same league as the state-sponsored terror that is coming out of places like Tehran- one who's stated goal is to finish the job that Hitler started. And they will make every attempt to do it with nuclear weapons- if the west allows them to. If you can't or won't accept that, then it's really not my problem.

You can cry about racism all you want, but it will not change the goals of Islam- not radical Islam, but Islam itself. This is a conflict that will help to precipitate the very end of the world.

I don't see what Bosnian SS-volunteers have to do with anything.

Babylonian is a typical brainwashed liberal that has no clue about history or current events- and sometimes people like that need a little reminder of history, hence that photo of the Bosnian SS members and the Grand Mufti. Hatred of the Jews (okay, we'll throw the Serbs in as well) was really the only thing that the Germans, a largely Catholic and Lutheran country, and the Bosnians- being a majority Muslim ethnic group, actually had in common.

Everyone that disagrees with the radical ideology that he was taught by his professors in school is either a racist or an Islamophobe. He and the people that indoctrinated (educated) him have no clue about tolerance- the only people that they tolerate are those that share their own delusional and self-destructive notions about the joys of multi-CULTuralism and "diversity", which of course, is a complete crock of shit.

Let's examine what "diversity" did for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or for a bit more modern example, Yugoslavia certainly stands out.

Let's see a bunch of Finns try and go to Saudi Arabia or Iran to try and set up a Lutheran church and tell them that they need more "diversity" in their country. I'd be willing to bet that the authorities in either of those countries will be perfectly willing to show them the finer points of Sharia law.

[RazielSR]

Let's see a bunch of Finns try and go to Saudi Arabia or Iran to try and set up a Lutheran church and tell them that they need more "diversity" in their country. I'd be willing to bet that the authorities in either of those countries will be perfectly willing to show them the finer points of Sharia law.

Yes, I'd like to see all the people saying "oh poor muslims living here, they have no rights..." going there and set up things like you are saying. They come here or there and you have to respect all his fucking traditions, but if you go there you have to become a new muslim.

[Carcass]

Let's see a bunch of Finns try and go to Saudi Arabia or Iran to try and set up a Lutheran church and tell them that they need more "diversity" in their country. I'd be willing to bet that the authorities in either of those countries will be perfectly willing to show them the finer points of Sharia law.

Yes, I'd like to see all the people saying "oh poor muslims living here, they have no rights..." going there and set up things like you are saying. They come here or there and you have to respect all his fucking traditions, but if you go there you have to become a new muslim.

I would hate to see Finland governed the same way as Saudi Arabia. I don't like theocracy, totalitarianism etc. any more than Mormegil.

[Carcass]

Babylonian is a typical brainwashed liberal that has no clue about history or current events- and sometimes people like that need a little reminder of history, hence that photo of the Bosnian SS members and the Grand Mufti. Hatred of the Jews (okay, we'll throw the Serbs in as well) was really the only thing that the Germans, a largely Catholic and Lutheran country, and the Bosnians- being a majority Muslim ethnic group, actually had in common.

The Bosniak volunteers were mostly used to combat Tito's communist partisans, if I'm not mistaken.

Let's examine what "diversity" did for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or for a bit more modern example, Yugoslavia certainly stands out.

Hetergeneous states used to be the norm. The modern homogeneousness of some European states has come at a terrible price. Consider the Armenian genocide, deportations of Greeks and Turks, deportation of Germans after WWII, The Holocaust, Srebrenica etc. Of course all these tragedies have their own peculiarities, but the nationalist imperative of ethnically homogeneous states played a role in all of them.

Fanatical Ein Volk, ein Reich -ideology is what strikes me very dangerous.