Polaris position in Stratovarius discography (rank)

[robocop656]

It alls sucks but boy george is awesumes

[Babylonian]

Im sorry if I did touch some nerve around here. wasnt my intention.
If I say "newbies" and you be listening to strato just recently well...you are a newbie....go and do some research..fuck!!

So you want just music to sing along to and that is your way of rating stuff?
Don't ever try Progressive metal or classical.

you can sing the solo intro from "sweet child of mine" , the riff from "surfing with the alien" really lift you up and make you wanna dance or something....you know what I mean??? SOUL!! VIBE!! can you find something like that in this album??? like I said before maybe "higher we go" reaches that point.
progressive u say??¿?¿, there is a lot of instrumental passages Im very sure you remember like a poetry rhyme, and Im so sure you can name it every one of them right now, and singing in your head while writing. can you do the same with polaris??. I bet you cant.

I can: Somehow precious, Emmancipation suite, deep unknown.

Me too: I mean come on! Who can resist to sing King Of Nothing's chorus? Or Deep Unknown's one?

I think Adrian has right to have his opinion about Polaris. Like I said before, in Stratoforum there's people, who can't stand people, who don't like Polaris. That's strange, because there's freedom of speech.

[Kecos]

a

[ggonza43]

Of course he does, but calling people "newbies" just because they like Polaris the best?

If I say "newbies" and you be listening to strato just recently well...you are a newbie....go and do some research..fuck!!

Hahaha, owned !

[Babylonian]

Of course he does, but calling people "newbies" just because they like Polaris the best?

If I say "newbies" and you be listening to strato just recently well...you are a newbie....go and do some research..fuck!!

How a long time Stratovarius fan can think, that Polaris is the best album, because it doesn't sound like Stratovarius (except Deep Unknown, Forever is today and partly Blind). I mean, that the mixing sounds like Stratovarius, because of Karmila, but most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius and most of them sounds like Kotipelto or Johansson solo work. I think, that only few of Strato fans would think, that the black album is the best album, because most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius. And same thing with Polaris. I think, that long time Strato fans doesn't think, that Polaris is the best album, but them, who have been Strato fans about 2 years thinks, that Polaris is the best, because Polaris is more "modern", than example Dreamspace or Visions. And most of them, who thinks, that Polaris is the best don't have the whole Stratovarius discography. Good example are those persons, who have heard only Black Diamond, Hunting High and Low and Eagleheart and who writes in Youtube, that Higher we go sounds like "classic Strato". If someone thinks, that Polaris is the best album it's ok for me, but I think, that they should listen to Dreamspace, Episode and Visions again and then Polaris and then think, which one is the best. And I have to say, that I think, that Polaris is good Power Metal album, but imo it just doesn't sound like Stratovarius.

[adrian9]

How a long time Stratovarius fan can think, that Polaris is the best album, because it doesn't sound like Stratovarius (except Deep Unknown, Forever is today and partly Blind). I mean, that the mixing sounds like Stratovarius, because of Karmila, but most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius and most of them sounds like Kotipelto or Johansson solo work. I think, that only few of Strato fans would think, that the black album is the best album, because most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius. And same thing with Polaris. I think, that long time Strato fans doesn't think, that Polaris is the best album, but them, who have been Strato fans about 2 years thinks, that Polaris is the best, because Polaris is more "modern", than example Dreamspace or Visions. And most of them, who thinks, that Polaris is the best don't have the whole Stratovarius discography. Good example are those persons, who have heard only Black Diamond, Hunting High and Low and Eagleheart and who writes in Youtube, that Higher we go sounds like "classic Strato". If someone thinks, that Polaris is the best album it's ok for me, but I think, that they should listen to Dreamspace, Episode and Visions again and then Polaris and then think, which one is the best. And I have to say, that I think, that Polaris is good Power Metal album, but imo it just doesn't sound like Stratovarius.

and that is my point.....I been a strato fan since 1999, that doesnt entitle me to have the last word about whatever stratovarius do, but when I read somebody saying that polaris is the best album....before visions!,Infinite, Episode...album that defines a genre like power metal....albums that started trends followed for so many many bands...the word NEWBIE is recurrent ....

[Rebel]

I don't really think you can realistically argue that there's any album stratovarius has released more IMPORTANT than Episode.

[adrian9]

I don't really think you can realistically argue that there's any album stratovarius has released more IMPORTANT than Episode.

now your talking....still that is a tough matter...because that period...95/96 is a really defining moment in stratovarius career...I think fourth dimension is the breaktrough album and episode is the total domain album, Is a very important album because that album put the eyes of the world on stratovarius.........isnt that a song>???

[Rebel]

I don't really think you can realistically argue that there's any album stratovarius has released more IMPORTANT than Episode.

now your talking....still that is a tough matter...because that period...95/96 is a really defining moment in stratovarius career...I think fourth dimension is the breaktrough album and episode is the total domain album, Is a very important album because that album put the eyes of the world on stratovarius.........isnt that a song>???

Fourth Dimension was transiitional
Episode was Revolutionary.
Talk to ANYONE outside of stratofandom and they'll tell you it was stratovarius' best work. (That knows and likes their music)

[Intiaani]

Plus, need to note that a bad album would lead, or almost lead, the charts if it was the newest. By no means is Polaris bad, but you can see from the ridiculously high number one votes that either people think it's the freshest and thus sounds the best, OR they don't know (all the) other albums.

Maybe I'll try a similar topic the next time the new album is released. Why do I get the feeling it goes straight to the top, or really close to it anyway?

I guess I never stuffed my nose to posting to this topic. I'd place Polaris somewhere in the middle. At the moment my album ranking might look something like this.

1. Episode / Visions
2. Infinite / Elements, Pt. 1 / Destiny
3. Polaris / Elements, Pt. 2 / Dreamspace
4. Twilight Time / Stratovarius
5. Fourth Dimension / Fright Night

Still, any Strato album is the best in the time I'm listening to it.

[Kecos]

a

[NeonVomit]

Polaris is 4th in my book, after Episode, Elements pt1 and Visions.

Can't wait for the new one, for this lineup to really find its stride. Totally different system of working too, now that there isn't one principal songwriter and everyone contributes.

[Babylonian]

3) I think Polaris sounds like a Stratoalbum.. it still has common elements from previous albums.. if you want to argue specifics I can and will. And even if it doesn't sound 100% like the old albums.. bands evolve. Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_eZA3lwBkU and then this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxm_jqfYgJY . 20 years of band evolution makes something different, usually..

I said in my previous post, that the mixing of Polaris sounds like Stratovarius because of Karmila, but compare example Black Diamond and Falling Star or Speed of Light and Higher we go or Mother Gaia and Somehow Precious and think which one sounds like Stratovarius and which one sounds like Kotipelto solo work.

[icecab21]

i'd say elements is a lot more of a evolution than poloris.

[adrian9]

Fourth Dimension was transiitional
Episode was Revolutionary.
Talk to ANYONE outside of stratofandom and they'll tell you it was stratovarius' best work. (That knows and likes their music)

I agree with you...did you read well my previous post didnt you?

Plus, need to note that a bad album would lead, or almost lead, the charts if it was the newest. By no means is Polaris bad, but you can see from the ridiculously high number one votes that either people think it's the freshest and thus sounds the best, OR they don't know (all the) other albums.

Dude if you are a really loyal fan you go and buy that album ..dont you?? I bought Stratovarius right away...I dont know If hit the charts..maybe he did..and the same with polaris, I went to the store and got it...!...
Q:justin bieber hit the charts like a mother fucker....does that count too?

6) I can't realistically argue that Polaris is Strato's most important album right now, but if they continue with this lineup for ~10 years and release a few more albums? That's a revival of the band, and it started with Polaris.

7) Keepers 1 and 2 defined a genre, so is anyone who likes a Helloween album more than those two newbies? You're basically saying that anyone whose favorite album from a band that isn't their genre-defining masterpiece, is a newbie.

mmm I guess polaris is important because it means continuity to the band, they are keep going and show they still in shape... now, taking that as the best in a plus 25 years career.....dont think so.

and yes of course I mean.....it doesnt get any better!! fuck sake! how could somebody like "virtual XI" more than "Killers"...only a newby would!
that insane is what is sound likes to me.
.....or....you know what I like "a sarceful of secrets" better than "the wall" FUCK YOU DUDE!!!!

[robocop656]

my brain is full of fuck

[NeonVomit]

How a long time Stratovarius fan can think, that Polaris is the best album, because it doesn't sound like Stratovarius (except Deep Unknown, Forever is today and partly Blind). I mean, that the mixing sounds like Stratovarius, because of Karmila, but most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius and most of them sounds like Kotipelto or Johansson solo work. I think, that only few of Strato fans would think, that the black album is the best album, because most of it's songs doesn't sound like Stratovarius. And same thing with Polaris. I think, that long time Strato fans doesn't think, that Polaris is the best album, but them, who have been Strato fans about 2 years thinks, that Polaris is the best, because Polaris is more "modern", than example Dreamspace or Visions. And most of them, who thinks, that Polaris is the best don't have the whole Stratovarius discography. Good example are those persons, who have heard only Black Diamond, Hunting High and Low and Eagleheart and who writes in Youtube, that Higher we go sounds like "classic Strato". If someone thinks, that Polaris is the best album it's ok for me, but I think, that they should listen to Dreamspace, Episode and Visions again and then Polaris and then think, which one is the best. And I have to say, that I think, that Polaris is good Power Metal album, but imo it just doesn't sound like Stratovarius.

and that is my point.....I been a strato fan since 1999, that doesnt entitle me to have the last word about whatever stratovarius do, but when I read somebody saying that polaris is the best album....before visions!,Infinite, Episode...album that defines a genre like power metal....albums that started trends followed for so many many bands...the word NEWBIE is recurrent ....

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man.

Look, people see things differently. Art is not objective. In fact, that's kind of the whole point of art.

That's why we get people who like 50 Cent more than Stratovarius.

Being a 'newbie' has nothing to do with anything. If people don't see things the same way as you do, just accept it.

Just settle down.

[NeonVomit]

and yes of course I mean.....it doesnt get any better!! fuck sake! how could somebody like "virtual XI" more than "Killers"...only a newby would!

I've been an Iron Maiden fan for the better part of two decades now. I like Virtual XI more than Killers, because I like Blaze's voice more than Di'Anno's. (Now, we can have a detailed discussion of how one can define 'like' but I don't think I can be bothered to, but let's just say I listen to VXI more than Killers.)

According to your rules, I guess that makes me a 'newbie' then, right?

[robocop656]

[ggonza43]

Ah come on!! I'm tired of this pointless discussion! It doesn't matter if you've been a Strato fan since "Polaris", since "Visions", or even when they were called Black Water! You need to know, music (in all genres) is made to make people feel nice, and Stratovarius has that feeling in all their songs; maybe not in the record you consider is the best for you, but everybody feels identified with one album, and we should all respect their choice. Calling somebody a "newbie"? If you want, go ahead; but that doesn't change the matter they like the music all the guys make

And that's what really matters

[Intiaani]

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man.

Look, people see things differently. Art is not objective. In fact, that's kind of the whole point of art.

That's why we get people who like 50 Cent more than Stratovarius.

Being a 'newbie' has nothing to do with anything. If people don't see things the same way as you do, just accept it.

I partly disagree with this message. I think the first impression has a huge effect in about anything you do. Destiny was my first Stratoalbum, and it has remained one of my favorites; I can't view it subjectively. It was sort of my "musical enlightenment", far better music than anything I'd ever heard. I think that Polaris might have had a similar effect on new Stratovarius fans. The first one is the most closest one.

You need to know, music (in all genres) is made to make people feel nice, and Stratovarius has that feeling in all their songs; maybe not in the record you consider is the best for you, but everybody feels identified with one album, and we should all respect their choice.

Respect the opinions, yes. But music is always to make feel nice? Actually I've gotten my biggest musical experiences from concept albums that made me feel very sad. Like Queensrÿche - Operation: Mindcrime, Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls, W.A.S.P. - The Crimson Idol, Evergrey - The Inner Circle and Pink Floyd - The Wall for example. Those are about my five favorite albums. So have to disagree.

What's 'sounding Stratovarius' then? If you take those most Strato-resembling Strato songs, even Dreamspace doesn't sound like Stratovarius. Babylon doesn't sound like Stratovarius. The Abyss of Your Eyes doesn't sound like Stratovarius. They've had many, many songs in the past that break the pattern, King of Nothing is nothing new in that. What it is, though, is a song that sounds something new, something fresh, and it still works wonders as a Stratovarius song. It's one of the best songs of the band in my opinion. I also think that Emancipation Suite is like stolen from the 90s/00s Tolkki epic song book. It has so much Elements and Visions feel and melodies in it. Still someone thinks it doesn't sound Stratovarius?

Let the band change musically, especially if it does so with as good taste as Strato do, and deal with it.

[Babylonian]

Being a 'newbie' has nothing to do with anything. If people don't see things the same way as you do, just accept it.

Just settle down.

I and the others, who says critical opinion about Polaris accepts different opinions. I think, that those, who adores Polaris doesn't like different opinions. There's lot of examples in here Stratoforum.

Calling somebody a "newbie"? If you want, go ahead; but that doesn't change the matter they like the music all the guys make

And that's what really matters

Most of them, who says, that Polaris is the best album have been Stratovarius fans at most 3 years, so they are newbies. Of course there's exceptions, but I'm talking about the majority.

And about music. Most of Polaris songs still sounds more like Kotipelto or Johansson solo material, than Stratovarius.

If you take those most Strato-resembling Strato songs, even Dreamspace doesn't sound like Stratovarius. Babylon doesn't sound like Stratovarius. The Abyss of Your Eyes doesn't sound like Stratovarius.

I disagree. Babylon is typical mid tempo Tolkki song, like many others. Dreamspace and The Abyss of You Eyes sounds like typical slower Strato song. There's also different Strato songs, than fast songs like Speed of Light or Black Diamond you know.

They've had many, many songs in the past that break the pattern, King of Nothing is nothing new in that. What it is, though, is a song that sounds something new, something fresh, and it still works wonders as a Stratovarius song. It's one of the best songs of the band in my opinion.

I disagree. King of Nothing doesn't sound like Stratovarius. It sounds like Johansson solo work. The chorus sounds like some kind of Viking Metal song. Even the song title isn't Stratovarius like. Tolkki would have never wrote song called King of Nothing for Strato or a song about war. You know, that the old Strato songs were against war. I'm not arguing, that Jens and "new Strato" adores war, but it's a fact that there would have never been song about war by Tolkki.

I also think that Emancipation Suite is like stolen from the 90s/00s Tolkki epic song book. It has so much Elements and Visions feel and melodies in it. Still someone thinks it doesn't sound Stratovarius?

I agree, that Forever is today and Emancipation Suite are copied from Tolkki. They are the only songs in Polaris, which sounds like Stratovarius. I have to say, that they are good songs, but they gives me feeling, that "let's create a song, which sounds just like Tolkki".

Let the band change musically, especially if it does so with as good taste as Strato do, and deal with it. Smile

Developing musically is different thing, that changing direction totally. Elements were developing, but songs like Falling Star, King of Nothing or Somehow Precious aren't developing, they are totally different direction. They are transform from Stratovarius to Kotipelto and Johansson solo material.

But I have to say, that I don't want to create confrontation between old and new Strato and I accept also opinions, who differs from mine. I'm just writing my opinion about Polaris. That's all.

[Kosmo]

This thread is really interesting to read, many opinions. I'm digging it.

[NeonVomit]

Being a 'newbie' has nothing to do with anything. If people don't see things the same way as you do, just accept it.

Just settle down.

I and the others, who says critical opinion about Polaris accepts different opinions. I think, that those, who adores Polaris doesn't like different opinions. There's lot of examples in here Stratoforum.

I don't understand how different opinions are necessary when deciding what album YOU like the most. It's not a discussion of a political topic, or a debate on a point of law.

These are metal albums we're talking about here. You listen to them, and make up your own mind, and that's it, really... whatever anyone else says or thinks is meaningless, because ultimately it's between you and the music, and no-one else's opinions in the way.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but that's part of the beauty of music, isn't it?

If someone likes Polaris best, isn't that their own taste, their own opinion and something they decided within their own mind? However much you talk to them and whatever you say, it isn't going to change the album, make the songs faster or shorter or longer or change the sound or the lyrics. Assuming they've listened to all the other records (and they should if they are to make a statement like that) and they just... like Polaris more than the other ones, then that's the only opinion that matters. Whatever anyone else says has no foundation or substance at the end of the day.

They just like what they like. If someone says 'I like this best and it's the best' that's a subjective opinion, because art and music is subjective.

They might change their mind with time because tastes change, but no amount of talking to them will change what they hear when they put the album on.

[NeonVomit]

Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion, man.

Look, people see things differently. Art is not objective. In fact, that's kind of the whole point of art.

That's why we get people who like 50 Cent more than Stratovarius.

Being a 'newbie' has nothing to do with anything. If people don't see things the same way as you do, just accept it.

I partly disagree with this message. I think the first impression has a huge effect in about anything you do. Destiny was my first Stratoalbum, and it has remained one of my favorites; I can't view it subjectively.

Of course you do. It's music, not science.

It was sort of my "musical enlightenment", far better music than anything I'd ever heard. I think that Polaris might have had a similar effect on new Stratovarius fans. The first one is the most closest one.

First Strato album I got was Infinite, but Episode is my favourite. First Iron Maiden album I got was Fear of the Dark, but 7th Son is my favourite. First Dream Theater album I got was Images and Words, but Awake is my favourite. You get my point here.

First impressions are huge, and all of those albums are still pretty special to me, but I'll more often than not listen to the others because I simply enjoy them more. Why? I don't know, I just like them more.

Just because someone likes the latest album doesn't mean they don't know anything about the band because it just happened to be the first one they heard.

Of course, if people say that such-and-such is the best album without having heard the others then whatever, they're just losers.

[Intiaani]

Fair enough. I agree with your point. At least, music SHOULD be between the listener and the music. No rationalizing or listening to others should affect it. I don't know if it always goes like this, though. Other people's opinions might get in the way. Someone might even adapt his/her music taste from someone else, like a little brother from his big brother.

Well, I for one disagree that Polaris mainly sounds like Kotipelto or Jens Johansson. I think the guys have produced pretty Strato-like songs, even though Porra was the master of it. I think King of Nothing sounds like Stratovarius, though new, fresh. And I'm not talking about the Karmila sound myself. It's there, of course, and thus adds the Strato feeling to the album. But Polaris in my opinion is very Strato-like album even though it's done without Tolkki.

Strange how much opinions can vary. For me Dreamspace the song sounds something like Dream Theater from the dark side, much more less "Stratovarius" than anything on Polaris.

[adrian9]

well babylonian pretty much said it all!! if you have been listening to strato for 3 years, and you think Polaris is the best album ever ,you are a newby.period! but hey! dont cry big fella, with time that could change!

and fuck it man........Virtual XI was so baaaaaaaaaaad that maiden, cancelled the tour, kicked blaze bayle out , steve harris HAD to call adrian smith and bruce dickinson to BEG them to rejoin the band , make a quick tour, and they forgot almost totally to play some of the songs of that album live.......forever!! virus you say?¿¿ when was the last time you heard that song in a maiden set list.....now, Wrathchild, murders in the rue morgue, are been there forever!! ........but hey is a matter of taste doesnt what in the hell should I now !!

[NeonVomit]

well babylonian pretty much said it all!! if you have been listening to strato for 3 years, and you think Polaris is the best album ever ,you are a newby.period! but hey! dont cry big fella, with time that could change!

No, it means you just like Polaris for the reasons I explained above and the reason you say below:

but hey is a matter of taste

Exactly.

[Kecos]

a

[Babylonian]

Well, I for one disagree that Polaris mainly sounds like Kotipelto or Jens Johansson. I think the guys have produced pretty Strato-like songs, even though Porra was the master of it. I think King of Nothing sounds like Stratovarius, though new, fresh. And I'm not talking about the Karmila sound myself. It's there, of course, and thus adds the Strato feeling to the album. But Polaris in my opinion is very Strato-like album even though it's done without Tolkki.

Well, I disagree with you. It's true, that Porra songs sounds like Stratovarius and they are very well copied from Tolkki's style. But songs like Falling Star, King of Nothing, Higher We Go and Somehow Precious doesn't sound like Stratovarius imo. Listen example Higher We Go and Can You Hear the Sound and you will see how typical Kotipelto songs those are and then listen classic Strato song like Father Time, Hunting High and Low or Eagleheart. I think, that will show the difference between Kotipelto and Tolkki's Strato songs.

Strange how much opinions can vary. For me Dreamspace the song sounds something like Dream Theater from the dark side, much more less "Stratovarius" than anything on Polaris. Rolling Eyes

It's true, that opinions vary. Imo Dreamspace songs like Chasing Chadows, We Are the Future or Wings of Tomorrow sounds just like Stratovarius, but Polaris except Forever is Today and Emancipation Suite doesn't. That's just my opinion and you have your opinion and I accept that.

I don't want to argue, what is the best album, but I'm just saying my very own opinion about Polaris.