Shurik wrote:
As long as whoever replaces Mubarak will keep the connections to the west and keep the peace agreement with Israel intact, we'll be OK. Otherwise, things will get much worse on our southern border. I hope next Egyptian government will understand that being friends with the west is better than being enemies, and much more profitable too.
That's basically what I'm talking about - pretty much any potential new government will realise that they have a lot more to gain from maintaining peaceful relations with Israel and the West, primarily for economic reasons and the vast majority of the population just want stability and to go about their business - they have more to lose than the populations of the other countries I mentioned.
Well, ayatollahs didn't realize that 30 years ago. Hopefully the next Egyptian government will be smarter than that.
You have to remember that the situation with Iran involved the USSR - they figured they could go for an Islamic government and reject the west while still have a powerful supporter and trade partner in the form of the Soviet Union. Also, they shared a border with the USSR so it made more sense to maintain better relations with them in any case.
Now unless China has been busy behind the scenes in Egypt (which I somewhat doubt) Egypt's population is unlikely to want to be branded as a rogue state and whoever comes to power (I don't think it will be the MB - they didn't instigate this uprising and basically jumped on the bandwagon once the protests were in full swing) will try to maintain this status quo. The people's grievances are not to do with Egypt's foreign policy at all, it's more to do with run of the mill things like jobs, corruption and the like.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
NeonVomit wrote:You have answered none of my questions, as usual. You talk shit without backing it up, as always.
You are pathetic.
Quite the contrary, I answered your rhetorical questions.
Your opinions are about as useful as a truckload of air conditioning units stuck in the snow after Chicago's recent storm this week. I loved the way that your Uncle Al tried to spin the blizzard reports with a straight face, and I believe that you owe him at least $5 USD in carbon credits for your last outburst- and every time one of your pets (cat, dog, cattle, whatever) farts, it's gonna cost you another $1.
What on earth are you talking about? Stop trying to change the subject.
I am still waiting for proof of me being a 'white-hating' racist. Either find me relevant quotes which show that I hold such opinions, or be man enough to admit you were talking crap.
You are in no position to criticise my opinions when you seemingly make any accusation that comes to your mind without any factual basis.
Use the search function.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
I have some close friends who were in Tahrir square themselves and have seen the demonstrations / riots up close.
Their reactions where that something happened during the past few days that derailed the whole direction of the demonsrations (democracy!). Whether it's Mubarak's attempt at creating chaos (by ordering police officers off the streets and to loot stores.. etc), or the Brotherhood's attempt at gaining power, it's bad!
My personal opinion is that it's not over yet, Omar Suleiman will tough it out, he's a tough guy and won't go easily. He's friends with the west (and he ran egypt's torture program! good guy! ).
@Miditek. Your government knew already in 2008 that there were plans for a revolution (read wikilieaks), and they helped revolutionary youths! So basically if the muslim brotherhood gets into power (which i fucking hope not!), you can partially blame your own government for it.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
is just a freight train coming your way
I don't think everyone in Egypt wanted him out. The numbers of Pro Mubarak people gradually got larger as time went on, and today it was so many that the army had to hold them back with tanks, blocking them from the protests.From the looks of it, it was thousands and thousands of Pro people.
I wonder how Obama would feel if a few million haters would take to the streets and tried to oust him from office 6 months before the election?
Isn't that what the Tea Party is? Anyway, Obama was elected into power and his government is bound by the rules of the constitution. Egypt's situation is totally different.
browneyedgirl wrote:I don't think everyone in Egypt wanted him out. The numbers of Pro Mubarak people gradually got larger as time went on, and today it was so many that the army had to hold them back with tanks, blocking them from the protests.From the looks of it, it was thousands and thousands of Pro people.
Well no, the main reason he's been in power for so long is because there's been a large segment of the population which has been either happy or indifferent to him being in power. And he does have a point when he says that him leaving power now would cause chaos.
The best thing to do would be for everyone to just quieten down and wait for elections... maybe not in September, but possibly bring them ahead a bit (June/July is unlikely, summer heat would make elections impractical).
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
NeonVomit wrote:You have answered none of my questions, as usual. You talk shit without backing it up, as always.
You are pathetic.
Quite the contrary, I answered your rhetorical questions.
Your opinions are about as useful as a truckload of air conditioning units stuck in the snow after Chicago's recent storm this week. I loved the way that your Uncle Al tried to spin the blizzard reports with a straight face, and I believe that you owe him at least $5 USD in carbon credits for your last outburst- and every time one of your pets (cat, dog, cattle, whatever) farts, it's gonna cost you another $1.
I dont know why you guys cant find common ground =/. From what I gather you both want the same thing!
A free world where anyone can do what they want and believe what they want and not be killed or threatened for who they are or what they believe in.
Somewhere down the line though the views on how to get to that point splits. Personally I agree with NeonVomit points of view. But I can still sort of see where miditek is comin from.
It seems like Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, head of the armed forces and the Defence Minister will take over running of the country until the September elections. Which, according to John Simpson of the BBC, is a breach of the Egyptian constitution, as it's the Speaker of the House who is supposed to take over in the event of the President stepping down, but it seems like nobody cares at the moment.
Which basically means nothing will change until September in any case. The military have said they will lift the state of emergency (which has been in place for 30 years) when the current situation calms down. Which basically means whatever they want it to mean and I don't see them doing anything of the sorts for a while.
The real test will come in the elections, that's when Egypt's democracy will really be called into question and scrutinised. There's a danger of a Pakistan-Musharraf situation arising here, and while Egypt isn't quite the clusterfuck that Pakistan is, things could potentially go bad unless some very careful management takes place. Which military forces, as a rule, aren't good at.
We shall see.
Funny side note: Iran's government congratulated the Egyptian people for doing this, probably in some misguided attempt at solidarity (Arabs generally dislike the Iranian government and are deeply suspicious of their motives) and the irony seems to be totally lost on them. I will be laughing so hard if the Iranian people take this as an inspiration to have another crack at protesting like they did after the last elections.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
Iran's government congratulated the Egyptian people for doing this, probably in some misguided attempt at solidarity (Arabs generally dislike the Iranian government and are deeply suspicious of their motives) and the irony seems to be totally lost on them. I will be laughing so hard if the Iranian people take this as an inspiration to have another crack at protesting like they did after the last elections.
All the islamic extremists hate Mubarak's guts for aligning with USA and Israel against Hamas, Hizballah and such. Iranian government is either so fucking stupid they don't understand that they brutally suppressed the same kind of protest just 1.5 years ago or they just so glad Mubarak is gone that they don't care for such similarities. Anyway, I hope the same kind of protest in Iran ends with Ahmadinejad and ayatollahs hanging from the lampposts.
Where do Egyptians go from here?
One of those:
1. Military dictatorship.
2. Islamic dictatorship.
3. Sort of democracy, but with real anarchy a-la Iraq.
Chemistry is physics without a thought
Mathematics is physics without a purpose
One of those:
1. Military dictatorship.
2. Islamic dictatorship.
3. Sort of democracy, but with real anarchy a-la Iraq.
I think the first is the most likely. I don't see an Iran-style regime popping up, because it wouldn't benefit them at all.
I don't think there will be the same sort of anarchy as Iraq; it's a very different situation. Egypt is far more ethnically and religiously homogenous (over 99% of the population is ethnic Egyptian, and 99% of Muslims are Sunni, according to wiki) so people have less of a reason to go around killing each other. Most of the chaos in Iraq results in Sunnis and Shias blowing each other up like it's a good idea, then throw the Kurds and other minorities into the mix as well, plus factor in the decades of heavy oppression under Saddam, as well as a far more desperate economic situation with pretty much zero functioning infrastructure, et voila. (There was oppression under Mubarak as well, but not nearly to the same scale or brutality as Saddam).
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
Oh, well. Since I do not live in Egygt I cannot comprehend what is going to happen to them next. I hope they get what they want. I cannot help thinking this may be similar to the movie, "Land Of the Blind", where the people rid themselves of a dictator only to get for themselves in the end something lots worse.
Well, protests have started in several places all over the world now. Thanks, folks in Egypt, for giving courage to the humble even though these governments are not as tolerant. Many people have been killed already.
People in Libya are pissed. They want "the Colonel" out. They are having a real mess over there. I thought they were happy with the curly topped wonder?
).
At last!!!! 
Good bye, totalitarian bitch!!!! 
I' didn't think of that at the moment 
... Gosh!!!!! 
It's all a f*** up 
