Egypt

[browneyedgirl]

People in Libya are pissed. They want "the Colonel" out. They are having a real mess over there. I thought they were happy with the curly topped wonder?

No one in the world will be sorry if this crazy freak disappears ...

Too bad Ronnie Raygun's aim wasn't just a bit better during the airstrikes on Tripoli back in the '80's. :/

No, just 'Omar's little girl was killed. Innocent victim of her father's madness. Just like many of the protesters--over 1,000--have became his victims. At least the no-fly zone has been approved maybe 'Omar won't use the Air Force against his own people as it has been feared.

[robocop656]

You sure are sadistic, miditek.

[miditek]

You sure are sadistic, miditek.

If they'd killed that piece of shit properly when they had the chance to do so, then it's unlikely that we'd be having this conversation now. It's unfortunate and tragic that his adopted daughter was killed, but that does not excuse that fact that her father is a fucking butcher and it was payback time for him.

Besides, if we were to set up a no-fly zone, America would be accused of acting unilaterally. The UN will take too long, and the Arab League doesn't give a shit- hoping that the same thing doesn't happen in other ME/NA nations.

Meanwhile in Egypt...

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[browneyedgirl]

You sure are sadistic, miditek.

If they'd killed that piece of shit properly when they had the chance to do so, then it's unlikely that we'd be having this conversation now. It's unfortunate and tragic that his adopted daughter was killed, but that does not excuse that fact that her father is a fucking butcher and it was payback time for him.

Yep, cause and effect gets ya every time! Also known as "you reap what you sow" and many times the harvest can be overwhelming.

[browneyedgirl]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... er-libya/1

Things are getting more serious---the UN is involved now.

[Shurik]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... er-libya/1

Things are getting more serious---the UN is involved now.

That will surely scare Gaddafi
The way Europeans, UN and USA deal with him remind of the scene from Team America where Hans Blix comes to Kim-Jong-Il and threatens him with a really harsh letter ...

[NeonVomit]

All necessary measures short of an invasion approved by the UN, which will also mean airstrikes against Ghaddafi's forces. China and Russia abstained and basically didn't complain about it, Arab League gave its support.

Apparently RAF units based in Cyprus will be playing a major role in any operations. The French will probably send an aircraft carrier and other NATO forces could be based in Italy.

Like, 2 weeks late, but better late than never.

In other news, I want to punch William Hague in the face.

[browneyedgirl]

China and Russia abstained and basically didn't complain about it, Arab League gave its support.

So, i guess it's not too serious after all.

[NeonVomit]

China and Russia abstained and basically didn't complain about it, Arab League gave its support.

So, i guess it's not too serious after all.

No, it means everyone is tired of his crap, and the rest of the Arab world sees him as a huge embarrassment.

[NeonVomit]

...aaand Ghaddafi folds like a bitch

[browneyedgirl]

China and Russia abstained and basically didn't complain about it, Arab League gave its support.

So, i guess it's not too serious after all.

No, it means everyone is tired of his crap, and the rest of the Arab world sees him as a huge embarrasment.

In other words, Ghaddafi is just a drama queen. So to speak.

[NeonVomit]

China and Russia abstained and basically didn't complain about it, Arab League gave its support.

So, i guess it's not too serious after all.

No, it means everyone is tired of his crap, and the rest of the Arab world sees him as a huge embarrassment.

In other words, Ghaddafi is just a drama queen. So to speak.

Well maybe not for the people who died under his regime, but everyone else is sick of his behaviour.

[miditek]

Isn't this all about Libyan oil and French imperialism on the continent of Africa? Was France in danger of being attacked by Uncle Momo's forces? What evidence did Sarko have that French sovereignty was threatened?

Here is a file photo that provides an excellent example of Flinch naval 'power'. The U.S.S. Enterprise is in the top of the photo, while France's S.S. Charlie DeGolly is in the lower part of the photo.



My biggest concern is the possibility of Somali pirates capturing this midget aircraft carrier and holding its crew for ransom. In that event, drastic measures will have to be taken- up to and including the scuttling of the ship while a real navy- the U.S. Navy, is busy fishing the frogs out of the pond.

I suspect that the French bombing sorties will lead to thousands of additional Peugeots and Renaults being torched by disenfranchised immigrants, followed by a capitulation ceremony.

Sacre fucking bleu!

[Shurik]

It still looks pretty big to me ...

I don't understand something about this whole Libya deal. OK, Gaddafi killing his own people is truly bad and he should've been dealt with 25 years ago. But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone? Who's really behind them? Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny? Is it something I missed on the news?

[Rebel]

Isn't this all about Libyan oil and French imperialism on the continent of Africa? Was France in danger of being attacked by Uncle Momo's forces? What evidence did Sarko have that French sovereignty was threatened?

Here is a file photo that provides an excellent example of Flinch naval 'power'. The U.S.S. Enterprise is in the top of the photo, while France's S.S. Charlie DeGolly is in the lower part of the photo.



My biggest concern is the possibility of Somali pirates capturing this midget aircraft carrier and holding its crew for ransom. In that event, drastic measures will have to be taken- up to and including the scuttling of the ship while a real navy- the U.S. Navy, is busy fishing the frogs out of the pond.

I suspect that the French bombing sorties will lead to thousands of additional Peugeots and Renaults being torched by disenfranchised immigrants, followed by a capitulation ceremony.

Sacre fucking bleu!

Have you had anything to say about Elysium, or even Polaris?

[NeverendingAbyss]

It still looks pretty big to me ...

I don't understand something about this whole Libya deal. OK, Gaddafi killing his own people is truly bad and he should've been dealt with 25 years ago. But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone? Who's really behind them? Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny? Is it something I missed on the news?

Oil.

[Kecos]

a

[AAAAAAAAAA]

As long as I've been here I've never heard him talk about Strato at all

No one really talks that much about Strato here. How much is there really to say? You either went to a concert and enjoyed it, or you heard the latest album and formed some arbitrary and uninteresting opinion about it. And that happens once every 3 years.

[miditek]

It still looks pretty big to me ...

The DeGaulle carries about 20 jets, whereas the Enterprise carries about 80+, in addition to auxiliary aircraft, such as AWACS and helicopters. Just a little jab at the French, that's all- they bitched and cried for years about Iraq, and now they go charging into Libya. I think that the oil flow to Europe, particularly France has at least something to do with all of this, so they deserve a slap or two at the very least. lol

I don't understand something about this whole Libya deal. OK, Gaddafi killing his own people is truly bad and he should've been dealt with 25 years ago. But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone? Who's really behind them? Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny? Is it something I missed on the news?

Qadaffi killing his own people is certainly bad, but I still smell a rat here. I was angry when he was not deposed during the Reagan administration after the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103- that was an act of war, but we were told by the government that a few sorties over Tripoli had to be sufficient. I disagree with the government's assessment on that, just as I disagreed with the decision allowing any of Hezbollah to even remain alive in the wake of the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon.

So you certainly pose some very pertinent and timely questions regarding the entire NATO intervention in what is essentially, an internal Libyan affair.

Q. "But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone?"

A. I have no idea how organized the rebel forces actually are, or if they actually have the ability to effectively govern following the power vacuum that will inevitably result if and when the Colonel is finally deposed.

Q. Who's really behind them?

A. Probably more than one player, since it is likely that more that one group of people comprise the rebel units.

It would seem to me that Qadaffi being overthrown could potentially help al-Qaeda. They are probably thinking, "yes, we'll certainly be glad to allow the West to destroy Qadaffi." It's very possible that al-Qaeda considers Qadaffi to be a troublesome, secular infidel that does not share their vision of a world without America and Israel.

So in essence, they could potentially allow the protesters and rebels to form a weak, Weimar-like republic, and then launch a violent, Islamic counterrevolution as soon as NATO forces have cleared the area. That is one possible scenario.

Q. "Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny?"

A. Because there are a fairly significant number of Americans and Europeans that are quite simply, extremely gullible. They have these visions of liberal, western-style democracies in a part of the world that (with the sole exception of Israel) that is not used to having freedom or democracy, and culturally speaking, may find an Islamic republic to be more of their liking.

You didn't miss anything on the news, but there are too many people that are putting too high of an expectation on what is likely to happen in Libya after Qadaffi is gone. In other words, Tripoli is not going to become the next South Beach. :/

[NeverendingAbyss]

Is it true his son died from burns?

[adrian9]

You didn't miss anything on the news, but there are too many people that are putting too high of an expectation on what is likely to happen in Libya after Qadaffi is gone. In other words, Tripoli is not going to become the next South Beach. :/

of course not, but you know what, at least this people are going to have the chance of building (from scratch) whatever they want to be from now on.

after 42 years of dictatorSHIT, and this nice words

life on earth will be hell , Occident will never have peace, traitors!! people who doesnt love me can not live

how could you let this guy still running Lybia..no fucking way.
of course NATO, Usa ,france, etc are not going to do the dirty job for free. Freedom for Oil...I think is a good trade.

[BBBBBBBBB]

This thread just isn't complete without this...

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Just Sayin'

[AAAAAA]

[Carcass]

I think that the oil flow to Europe, particularly France has at least something to do with all of this, so they deserve a slap or two at the very least. lol

Italy and Libya are (were?) important business partners, that's also where the lion's share of Libyan oil went.

Q. Who's really behind them?

A. Probably more than one player, since it is likely that more that one group of people comprise the rebel units.

I fear that if and when Qaddafi is toppled, the opposition will have difficult to find agreement. Clan loyalties, frustration and men armed to the teeth are not a good combination.

[Shurik]

I fear that if and when Qaddafi is toppled, the opposition will have difficult to find agreement. Clan loyalties, frustration and men armed to the teeth are not a good combination.

So essentially, what's going on there is a civil war, and not sure whether the final outcome will better than the current situation (look at Iraq for example). Taking sides in such a situation is not a very good idea, IMO.

[browneyedgirl]

This is disgusting :sick: but, unfortunately very true. Citizens are the lowest rung of the ladder, and do get shit on, so to speak, from the higher ups on the economic pecking order. We are just about up to $4 a gallon of gas where I live. Good thing I have an economically good mpg vehicle. And, two healthy legs!

[Rebel]

The DeGaulle carries about 20 jets, whereas the Enterprise carries about 80+, in addition to auxiliary aircraft, such as AWACS and helicopters. Just a little jab at the French, that's all- they bitched and cried for years about Iraq, and now they go charging into Libya. I think that the oil flow to Europe, particularly France has at least something to do with all of this, so they deserve a slap or two at the very least. lol

Qadaffi killing his own people is certainly bad, but I still smell a rat here. I was angry when he was not deposed during the Reagan administration after the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103- that was an act of war, but we were told by the government that a few sorties over Tripoli had to be sufficient. I disagree with the government's assessment on that, just as I disagreed with the decision allowing any of Hezbollah to even remain alive in the wake of the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon.

So you certainly pose some very pertinent and timely questions regarding the entire NATO intervention in what is essentially, an internal Libyan affair.

Q. "But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone?"

A. I have no idea how organized the rebel forces actually are, or if they actually have the ability to effectively govern following the power vacuum that will inevitably result if and when the Colonel is finally deposed.

Q. Who's really behind them?

A. Probably more than one player, since it is likely that more that one group of people comprise the rebel units.

It would seem to me that Qadaffi being overthrown could potentially help al-Qaeda. They are probably thinking, "yes, we'll certainly be glad to allow the West to destroy Qadaffi." It's very possible that al-Qaeda considers Qadaffi to be a troublesome, secular infidel that does not share their vision of a world without America and Israel.

So in essence, they could potentially allow the protesters and rebels to form a weak, Weimar-like republic, and then launch a violent, Islamic counterrevolution as soon as NATO forces have cleared the area. That is one possible scenario.

Q. "Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny?"

A. Because there are a fairly significant number of Americans and Europeans that are quite simply, extremely gullible. They have these visions of liberal, western-style democracies in a part of the world that (with the sole exception of Israel) that is not used to having freedom or democracy, and culturally speaking, may find an Islamic republic to be more of their liking.

You didn't miss anything on the news, but there are too many people that are putting too high of an expectation on what is likely to happen in Libya after Qadaffi is gone. In other words, Tripoli is not going to become the next South Beach. :/

Q. Tell us some opinions about Stratovarius

[NeonVomit]

France's historical ties to North Africa (i.e. the fact it used to be a French colony) are the reason they're getting involved this time, exactly because it could affect regional stability... floods of refugees will hardly help the already delicate situation in Egypt and Tunisia. This is within the EU's sphere of influence and what affects North Africa inevitably affects Europe. Anyone who lived here would know that, which is why there's been pretty high public support for the matter, even after Iraq and Afghanistan. Many (usually older) British people see this as belated revenge for the Lockerbie bombing.

Yes, of course the issue of oil arises... it would be naive to believe it doesn't.

As to what will happen afterwards, who knows, but at least it won't be another Iraq or Afghanistan, that's for sure. People forget that Libya is a pretty small country population wise (only around 6 million) and has the highest HDI on the African continent (53rd in the world, around the same as Romania and higher than Russia, Bulgaria and Uruguay) along with some of the highest literacy rates. While there are tribes present, it's essentially ethnically homogenous, and virtually all Libyans are Sunni muslim, meaning there will be less reason for blowing each other up like we all know these whacky muslims like to do so much. Not much simmering ethnic or religious tension here.

As for the CDG, it's currently the second largest non-US aircraft carrier in the world and the only non-US nuclear-powered carrier. It too deploys the EC-2 AWACS, I think again the only non-US carrier to be able to do so. I like how miditek hates anything to do with Fra-



oh.

[miditek]

[robocop656]

The DeGaulle carries about 20 jets, whereas the Enterprise carries about 80+, in addition to auxiliary aircraft, such as AWACS and helicopters. Just a little jab at the French, that's all- they bitched and cried for years about Iraq, and now they go charging into Libya. I think that the oil flow to Europe, particularly France has at least something to do with all of this, so they deserve a slap or two at the very least. lol

Qadaffi killing his own people is certainly bad, but I still smell a rat here. I was angry when he was not deposed during the Reagan administration after the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103- that was an act of war, but we were told by the government that a few sorties over Tripoli had to be sufficient. I disagree with the government's assessment on that, just as I disagreed with the decision allowing any of Hezbollah to even remain alive in the wake of the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon.

So you certainly pose some very pertinent and timely questions regarding the entire NATO intervention in what is essentially, an internal Libyan affair.

Q. "But what's the final goal of the Libyan opposition, after the Mad Hatter is gone?"

A. I have no idea how organized the rebel forces actually are, or if they actually have the ability to effectively govern following the power vacuum that will inevitably result if and when the Colonel is finally deposed.

Q. Who's really behind them?

A. Probably more than one player, since it is likely that more that one group of people comprise the rebel units.

It would seem to me that Qadaffi being overthrown could potentially help al-Qaeda. They are probably thinking, "yes, we'll certainly be glad to allow the West to destroy Qadaffi." It's very possible that al-Qaeda considers Qadaffi to be a troublesome, secular infidel that does not share their vision of a world without America and Israel.

So in essence, they could potentially allow the protesters and rebels to form a weak, Weimar-like republic, and then launch a violent, Islamic counterrevolution as soon as NATO forces have cleared the area. That is one possible scenario.

Q. "Why do Europeans and Americans blindly assume that the opposition will build democracy and everything will be peachy and shiny?"

A. Because there are a fairly significant number of Americans and Europeans that are quite simply, extremely gullible. They have these visions of liberal, western-style democracies in a part of the world that (with the sole exception of Israel) that is not used to having freedom or democracy, and culturally speaking, may find an Islamic republic to be more of their liking.

You didn't miss anything on the news, but there are too many people that are putting too high of an expectation on what is likely to happen in Libya after Qadaffi is gone. In other words, Tripoli is not going to become the next South Beach. :/

Q. Tell us some opinions about Stratovarius

LOL.