The first shredder ever

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:26 am

To avoid taking the YJM topic too far off, I started this instead. Finding "Firsts" is always a tad difficult, so there's bound to be lots of debate, I'd of course nominate Ritchie Blackmore as the father of the shred, as he was ripping nasty solos as early as 1968, however, I think the earliest, and most undeniable example of "Shredding" is the intro to 1970's "Speed King"

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AGAG · Post by **AGAG** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:06 am

I beg to differ

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adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:33 am

this discussion is actually pretty interesing.
and now that agag put that link it really makes me think twice.
can we first define what is shred and his characteristics because what I understand as shred is solely (as I posted early) a guitar movement from the 80s.
but you can shred in flute also.

so.. this is what i know.
from wiki

wiki wrote:Shred guitar or shredding is lead electric guitar playing that relies heavily on fast guitar solos. While one critic argues that shred guitar is associated with "... sweep-picked arpeggios, diminished and harmonic minor scales, finger-tapping and ... whammy-bar abuse",[1] several guitar writers argue that rather than being a musical definition, it is a fairly subjective cultural term used by guitarists and enthusiasts of guitar music. It is usually used with reference to heavy metal guitar playing, where it is associated with rapid tapping solos and special effects such as whammy bar "dive bombs".

from everything I ve read i think that definition is pretty acurate. although they credit in that article Uli roth (something I differ,because then blackmore will be a shredder too)

what I understand as a shred began with this guy

wiki wrote:Mike Varney is an American musician, record producer, music publisher and impresario. He is the founder of the Shrapnel Label Group, which includes Shrapnel Records, Tone Center Records and Blues Bureau International. He also has a 50% stake in Magna Carta Records, a New York-based label.[1] Amazon.com currently lists over 790 albums as being released by record labels founded or owned by Mike Varney.[2] He is often credited with being the most responsible individual for the mid-1980s shred guitar boom,[3] and has continuously specialized in producing highly acclaimed musicians within the genres of instrumental rock, hard rock, jazz, jazz fusion, blues, blues-rock, progressive metal and speed metal.

Damien Thorn · Post by **Damien Thorn** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:39 am

Here's the very first shredder ever...

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And this little ditty started shred as we know it - and ended seventies guitar noodling in the process...

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Cheers,

Damien

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:03 am

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:22 am

TBH, the two handed tapping in Eruption is a nice touch, and the alternate picking, but the intro to Speed King, at least to me, sounds much more "Shreddy", I'd define that, but it would take an amount of time I do not have right now.
Shredding of course, is an artform that developed from many influences, and even today is developing new touches and twists, but if we look at history, I think RB is more responsible than anyone else for bringing it into metal.

(And while I'm talking RB, let's not forget that without him, Ian Gillan, David Coverdale, Joe Lynn Turner, and Dio wouldn't have careers, he's probably the best ear for finding great but unheard of vocalists ever).

Interesting also to note, in some interviews Ritchie claims that he never taps, not because he hadn't heard of it or couldn't do it, just that he thought himself "Above it", like that he could play the same material without the technique.

NeonVomit · Post by **NeonVomit** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 am

If you really want to get into semantics, it all started here...

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Oh wait...

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Actually maybe...

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Hang on a second...

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It never ends, man!

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:01 am

THOSE SHREDDERS AIN'T EVEN MADE OUT OF METAL!!!!

J- さ& · Post by **J- さ&** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:45 am

robocop656 wrote:THOSE SHREDDERS AIN'T EVEN MADE OUT OF METAL!!!!

METAL!

Damien Thorn · Post by **Damien Thorn** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 pm

NeonVomit wrote:If you really want to get into semantics, it all started here...

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Oh wait...

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Actually maybe...

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Hang on a second...

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It never ends, man!

So you're basically saying it started with Paganini...

Cheerio,

Damien

Damien Thorn · Post by **Damien Thorn** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:24 pm

Rebel wrote:TBH, the two handed tapping in Eruption is a nice touch, and the alternate picking, but the intro to Speed King, at least to me, sounds much more "Shreddy". [...]

(And while I'm talking RB, let's not forget that without him, Ian Gillan, David Coverdale, Joe Lynn Turner, and Dio wouldn't have careers, he's probably the best ear for finding great but unheard of vocalists ever).

Interesting also to note, in some interviews Ritchie claims that he never taps, not because he hadn't heard of it or couldn't do it, just that he thought himself "above it", like that he could play the same material without the technique.

Typical Blackmore... He's probably above and beyond Vai and Satriani as well then. I realize you like Blackmore, and don't worry, I think he's great too, in a sentimental seventies-nostalgia kind of way. However, we're talking about shred metal here. That's the style of music that was invented and brought to prominence by Edward Van Halen and honed to perfection by all those virtuoso guitarists (including Malmsteeen) on Mike Varney's Shrapnel label. Credit where credit is due...

Cheerio,

Damien

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:15 pm

agree with my boy damien here,
Ritchie is also well known for his big ego. there is no doubt he was the best from his time, nobody could touch him back in 73-77.
now, eddie van halen is way more fast and more complex guitar player than ritchie. they also differ in too many ways (from the music they play to the gear they use)
that is why I want to define shred in the very first place.
in an interview with joe satriani on guitar world (I think was in january or the december edition) he stated that for him , the first shredder was Hendrix!

TwilightEagle · Post by **TwilightEagle** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:39 pm

This might sound some kind of cliche, but for me Blackmore and Tolkki are the greatest shredders ever.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:41 pm

TwilightEagle wrote:This might sound some kind of cliche, but for me Blackmore and Tolkki are the greatest shredders ever.

maybe blackmore is a cliché...but tolkki - shred....I dont think so.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:59 pm

adrian9 wrote:agree with my boy damien here,
Ritchie is also well known for his big ego. there is no doubt he was the best from his time, nobody could touch him back in 73-77.
now, eddie van halen is way more fast and more complex guitar player than ritchie. they also differ in too many ways (from the music they play to the gear they use)
that is why I want to define shred in the very first place.
in an interview with joe satriani on guitar world (I think was in january or the december edition) he stated that for him , the first shredder was Hendrix!

By the EVH logic, Tech Deth guitarist invented shred because they played even faster and more complex than EVH. Shredding is something that developed over time, there are different levels of development for it, but at some point it transitions from "Playing fast", to "Shredding", and what I'm trying to do is pinpoint where that happens. I was kind of hoping people had examples from before 1975, because after '75, you see shredding popularize as a movement, not because it was created then, but because that's when the imitators (Malmsteen, EVH, ect...) start to crop up.

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:10 pm

Music ain't a big contest. IT IS for some people, though. Some people think if you play the fastest and most complex you are "THE GREATEST FUCKING BAND IN THE WORLD!" Other people like cheese shredders. Other people listen to pop music and don't give a rats ass if you can play a Chopin etude on your harmonica with your butt. In other words, nobody gives a shit!

:drop: :drop: :drop: :drop:

AAAAAAAAAA · Post by **AAAAAAAAAA** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:08 am

I mainly just put the intro music to "Judge Judy" on repeat. Can I still contribute to this thread?

J.S. Bach · Post by **J.S. Bach** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:18 am

Not even worms shit this often!

Better go back to that coffin with Maggy V.!
Boy! Does she know how to make fucking omelettes... :laff:

TwilightEagle · Post by **TwilightEagle** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:05 pm

adrian9 wrote:
TwilightEagle wrote:This might sound some kind of cliche, but for me Blackmore and Tolkki are the greatest shredders ever.
maybe blackmore is a cliché...but tolkki - shred....I dont think so.

Without Tolkki there wouldn't be nowaday's Power Metal.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:19 pm

TwilightEagle wrote:
adrian9 wrote:
TwilightEagle wrote:This might sound some kind of cliche, but for me Blackmore and Tolkki are the greatest shredders ever.
maybe blackmore is a cliché...but tolkki - shred....I dont think so.
Without Tolkki there wouldn't be nowaday's Power Metal.

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TwilightEagle · Post by **TwilightEagle** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:02 pm

adrian9 wrote:
TwilightEagle wrote:
adrian9 wrote:
TwilightEagle wrote:This might sound some kind of cliche, but for me Blackmore and Tolkki are the greatest shredders ever.
maybe blackmore is a cliché...but tolkki - shred....I dont think so.
Without Tolkki there wouldn't be nowaday's Power Metal.
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.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
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.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
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...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
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Guitar World magazine ranked him in the top 50 fastest guitar players in the world. I'd post faceplam about your comment too, but I won't do that.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:26 pm

ok first that was years ago, and second...50th!! come on.
and... Im not saying he is a bad player or he didnt started a trend on power metal music. but of course there are many other bands that helped to make power metal what it is today. you can tell the influence of Helloween on early stratovarius songs , like in We are the future, etc.

TwilightEagle · Post by **TwilightEagle** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:51 pm

adrian9 wrote:ok first that was years ago, and second...50th!! come on.
and... Im not saying he is a bad player or he didnt started a trend on power metal music. but of course there are many other bands that helped to make power metal what it is today. you can tell the influence of Helloween on early stratovarius songs , like in We are the future, etc.

Why you guys and girls can just stop the stupid "I hate Tolkki game"? He hasn't kill anyone. I just don't understand, that at the same time people are complaining, that he left Stratovarius and at the same time they're saying, that "current lineup is better, than Tolkki" and "he has lost it".

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:07 pm

i dont hate tolkki, but not because I love him im gonna worship him and make him the #1 in everything and make him the most important person in power metal ..that had to be kai hansen,tolkki might be in the top 5 for sure., I have a stratovarius tatoo on my shoulder, who can I hate tolkki, kiddo?!

TwilightEagle · Post by **TwilightEagle** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:13 pm

adrian9 wrote:i dont hate tolkki, but not because I love him im gonna worship him and make him the #1 in everything and make him the most important person in power metal ..that had to be kai hansen,tolkki might be in the top 5 for sure., I have a stratovarius tatoo on my shoulder, who can I hate tolkki, kiddo?!

I didn't mean you, but some persons here. You know, what I mean.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:00 pm

TwilightEagle wrote:
adrian9 wrote:i dont hate tolkki, but not because I love him im gonna worship him and make him the #1 in everything and make him the most important person in power metal ..that had to be kai hansen,tolkki might be in the top 5 for sure., I have a stratovarius tatoo on my shoulder, who can I hate tolkki, kiddo?!
I didn't mean you, but some persons here. You know, what I mean.

mm no I dont, but whatever dude.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:55 pm

if you don't notice the difference between what malmsteen brings to what Richie brought, i don't think you are listening well at all. they simply have different influences and it shows. malmsteen brought influences into his play that blackmore does not

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:02 pm

icecab21 wrote:if you don't notice the difference between what malmsteen brings to what Richie brought, i don't think you are listening well at all. they simply have different influences and it shows. malmsteen brought influences into his play that blackmore does not

like who? Ritchie if anything has a great deal more influences than Yngwie. Everything about Yngwie, the style, the clothing, the stage antics, even the fucking guitar down to the color, it's all Ritchie.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:56 pm

Rebel wrote:
icecab21 wrote:if you don't notice the difference between what malmsteen brings to what Richie brought, i don't think you are listening well at all. they simply have different influences and it shows. malmsteen brought influences into his play that blackmore does not
like who? Ritchie if anything has a great deal more influences than Yngwie. Everything about Yngwie, the style, the clothing, the stage antics, even the fucking guitar down to the color, it's all Ritchie.

Im gonna back it up my boy rebel here, and Yngwie has acknowledge this in many occasions, often stating that in sweden Deep purple was bigger than Kiss and Led Zep (which I doubt but, whatever.)
there is not denial in ritchies HUGE influence on malmsteen, but..
malmsteen brought the guitar playing to extreme places.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:21 pm

paganini is a start.

malmsteen brought the guitar playing to extreme places.

if he is more extreme than blackmore, that is doing a bad job at copying blackmore, as blackmore would be less extreme.

as for the guitars, the two use different guitars
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... n-scallops

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The first shredder ever

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