Timo Tolkki's Avalon Pt. 3 and tour

[robocop]

Speaking of Angra, I went to go take a look at their Metal Archives page and was stunned to see so many 90+ rated albums! I've never listened to them before, but based on those reviews, I think I'm going to change that now.

One of the first albums I heard from them in the early 2000s. Impulse buy from a cd store.

https://youtu.be/Ds8W3eQ5-Io

[NeverendingAbyss]

I'll have to listen to Angra's Holy Land, then. I never got into Angra. At least the songs I've listened to were kind of generic.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Speaking of Angra, I went to go take a look at their Metal Archives page and was stunned to see so many 90+ rated albums! I've never listened to them before, but based on those reviews, I think I'm going to change that now.

I checked and the sample size of reviews is so small < 10 that its probably not very meaningful. In that respect I think rym.com is much better as there are far more reviews.

But yes, its a fantastic band:

Angels Cry / Holy Land are two albums that are as strong as Episode / Visions (and there are not many!). My favorite of the two is Holy Land as its a concept album with a unique vibe. Very curious what your thoughts are on it.

The album Robocop posted, Temple of Shadows, is also widely considered their magnum opus- though because the lead singer had changed by this time, the fans are torn between the old era (Matos) and the new era (Falaschi).

They have a lot of other great albums, but those three (Angels Cry, Holy Land, and Temple of Shadows) are probably the strongest.

What NeverendingAbyss calls "generic" is probably the first album after the major lineup change, Rebirth. Still a great album (excellent production by Dennis Ward, incredible musicianship, melodies, and solos...but admittedly the songwriting is a bit generic).

Their most recent lineup actually has Fabio Lione on vocals. Still good but less essential.

[ZenithMC]

I checked and the sample size of reviews is so small < 10 that its probably not very meaningful. In that respect I think rym.com is much better as there are far more reviews.

That's a fairly average sample size for Metal Archives, but fair point. I went on rateyourmusic.com and I felt like a complete idiot trying to understand the rating system. After digging around, it turns out that albums are rated out of 5.0... After checking out some of my favorite bands, it seems like "god tier" is anything around or above 3.5.

It seems like the problem with having a huge sample size is that almost all the bands that I checked out are rated around the 3.5 range... even the ones that I despise! Therefore, it's an unreliable source for determining that information. I think it's way more reliable to read reviews of even just one guy, if I know for a fact that he has the exact same tastes as myself.

Also, lmao that Awaken the Guardian is the highest rated Fate's Warning album on RYM. It also has the most ratings, by far.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

That's a fairly average sample size for Metal Archives, but fair point. I went on rateyourmusic.com and I felt like a complete idiot trying to understand the rating system. After digging around, it turns out that albums are rated out of 5.0... After checking out some of my favorite bands, it seems like "god tier" is anything around or above 3.5.

When it comes to RYM, there are various biases to consider- same with any rating system.

It is most useful for comparing the quality of a band's albums to one another, or comparing the output of one band from a particular era to a band in the same genre and era. You'll notice all the highest ratest stuff in RYM is really old material: all the classic stuff is really inflated by nostalgic boomers.

There are various other biases but I want bore you!

It seems like the problem with having a huge sample size is that almost all the bands that I checked out are rated around the 3.5 range... even the ones that I despise! Therefore, it's an unreliable source for determining that information.

Well, whatever it is you're trying to measure, more ratings is better than less ratings. Obviously the site can't tell you what YOU are going to like. If there are many albums in the 3.5 range it just means there are a lot of albums that some people like and some people don't.

Also, lmao that Awaken the Guardian is the highest rated Fate's Warning album on RYM. It also has the most ratings, by far.

I hate that album. What awful singing and production. Fate's Warning has better albums with Ray Alder, like Disconnected for example.

Still, you can't deny that Awaken the Guardian is one of their most influential works.

[ZenithMC]

Welp, RYM just locked me out of the site by accusing me of being a robot. What, they can't handle like 10 band searches in 20 minutes? Give me a break...

It is most useful for comparing the quality of a band's albums to one another

This is definitely true.

or comparing the output of one band from a particular era to a band in the same genre and era.

This is less reliable, but maybe...

You'll notice all the highest ratest stuff in RYM is really old material: all the classic stuff is really inflated by nostalgic boomers.

Yes!

Well anyway, time to go waste my time by solving a goddamned captcha...

[robocop]

I'll have to listen to Angra's Holy Land, then. I never got into Angra. At least the songs I've listened to were kind of generic.

I'd like to listen to Angra on a beach in Brazil surrounded by oiled up AI sex bots while chugging a bottle of the cheapest beer.

Talking serious...I was never a huge fan either. I kind of weave in and out of different music all the time. If that is the album I'm thinking of, the production didn't sound very good to my ears and it kept me from even listening to any more of the album.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I'll have to listen to Angra's Holy Land, then. I never got into Angra. At least the songs I've listened to were kind of generic.

Talking serious...I was never a huge fan either. I kind of weave in and out of different music all the time. If that is the album I'm thinking of, the production didn't sound very good to my ears and it kept me from even listening to any more of the album.

Give it another listen. I think the production is pristine, though its not a very heavy album.

It was produced by Charlie Bauerfeind and Sascha Paeth: two really famous producers you probably already heard of.

Temple of Shadows is a lot more conventional progressive/power metal album and I can respect if you like that more, but for me- Angels Cry/Holy Land are pure gold.

[robocop]

Give it another listen. I think the production is pristine, though its not a very heavy album.

It was produced by Charlie Bauerfeind and Sascha Paeth: two really famous producers you probably already heard of.

Temple of Shadows is a lot more conventional progressive/power metal album and I can respect if you like that more, but for me- Angels Cry/Holy Land are pure gold.

I haven’t heard Temple of Shadows for so long. Other than when I posted it here. So..I listened to the early albums. Well, just a tiny bit. I’m not satisfied with the quality on the streaming app I use. Looking around for high quality rips of it. I do like the shred/wank over the top at the first songs start on holy land. That always surprised me hearing that originally. I’ll check back when I have time I sit down and listen to the full early albums on my good headphones and interface.

[SentineLEX]

I am a huge fan of Rebirth but Temple of Shadows has always been forgettable for me. No matter how many times I try to listen I always zone out and forget what I've heard. Same thing with the last two - love Secret Garden, can't remember a thing from Omni.

Love Angels Cry - it sounds like a completely different band recorded it.

[thefreeone]

I am a huge fan of Rebirth but Temple of Shadows has always been forgettable for me. No matter how many times I try to listen I always zone out and forget what I've heard. Same thing with the last two - love Secret Garden, can't remember a thing from Omni.

Love Angels Cry - it sounds like a completely different band recorded it.

Alongside Rebirth, Temple of Sahdows is Angra's best album so far.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I am a huge fan of Rebirth but Temple of Shadows has always been forgettable for me. No matter how many times I try to listen I always zone out and forget what I've heard. Same thing with the last two - love Secret Garden, can't remember a thing from Omni.

Love Angels Cry - it sounds like a completely different band recorded it.

Alongside Rebirth, Temple of Sahdows is Angra's best album so far.

Rebirth is another classic. A bit too generic power metal at times, but its so well executed and catchy that you have to love it.

[robocop]

Give it another listen. I think the production is pristine, though its not a very heavy album.

It was produced by Charlie Bauerfeind and Sascha Paeth: two really famous producers you probably already heard of.

Temple of Shadows is a lot more conventional progressive/power metal album and I can respect if you like that more, but for me- Angels Cry/Holy Land are pure gold.

Tried to listen to those 2 albums. Could not get through the songs.

I'm going to save the albums for when I'm in more of a different mood for songs like this.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Give it another listen. I think the production is pristine, though its not a very heavy album.

It was produced by Charlie Bauerfeind and Sascha Paeth: two really famous producers you probably already heard of.

Temple of Shadows is a lot more conventional progressive/power metal album and I can respect if you like that more, but for me- Angels Cry/Holy Land are pure gold.

Tried to listen to those 2 albums. Could not get through the songs.

I'm going to save the albums for when I'm in more of a different mood for songs like this.

I see. Well thanks for giving it a whirl. I guess you're more into a traditional riff-oriented heavy metal sound rather than the orchestral/symphonic excesses of early Angra

I also have phases.

I listened to Rhapsody of Fire and all derivative bands obsessively for like 5 months, and got so burned out that I'm into bands like Running Wild and Axel Rudi Pell now.

[robocop]

I like lots of type of stuff. Doesn’t have to be like a US riff oriented power metal sound.

This is something like I’d enjoy for symphonic type:

https://youtu.be/2GckrYjWsH4

I mean, I went through a phase where I even listened to Nightwish a lot. Mainly with Annette since I cannot stand the opera type of vocal.

I don’t want to spam with vids. Got to look up Tolkki to see if he’s still selling Avon, lmao.

FIELDSss Offff AVON!!!

[SentineLEX]

I like lots of type of stuff. Doesn’t have to be like a US riff oriented power metal sound.

This is something like I’d enjoy for symphonic type:

https://youtu.be/2GckrYjWsH4

I mean, I went through a phase where I even listened to Nightwish a lot. Mainly with Annette since I cannot stand the opera type of vocal.

I don’t want to spam with vids. Got to look up Tolkki to see if he’s still selling Avon, lmao.

FIELDSss Offff AVON!!!

I preferred Anette as well

Although I'm sad Stratovarius didn't fully explore elementary-school-oriented-metal alongside their vocalist. That's the best kind of all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyufrVrG23c

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Bizarre interview with Claudia Perl as she tells her side of the story...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoyr1xHiJiE

[robocop]

Thanks for the link. He's been with some many randoms so this is going to be exciting.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Thanks for the link. He's been with some many randoms so this is going to be exciting.

I saw your comment in Youtube:

Arnold Layne here. Tolkki told me to send him new underwear and five gallons of coca cola. His Avon and Herbalife business must be going well! Not a scam, duh. Self made.

I did hear the other song by Claudia Perl linked in the comments. Between her song and Robocop's anthem on burgers, I'd go with Robo.

[robocop]

Forgot on thing. “Cheers from Leeds.”

You know what I’m noticing about these Angra albums again, there’s way more twists and turns with more dynamics than what I’m used to hearing. Even the Latin drum patterns I’m digging. Always wanted to learn how to play those. Got to dive in multiple listens here over a period of time for a more thorough listen.

I preferred Anette as well

Although I'm sad Stratovarius didn't fully explore elementary-school-oriented-metal alongside their vocalist. That's the best kind of all.

Maybe I’m just leaning toward the more straight forward type of Episode songs when I’m thinking about my favorite power metal.
There is a time and place for it all. I’m sure they will try out different things eventually.

I mean, with the nightwish, I can also listen to the old stuff with the classic production that I love. It’s just that I prefer the Annette vocal style for some reason.

Are you into amazing quality audio? I’ve been looking for higher quality strato albums to buy. I found this and I’m excited to buy it:

https://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/22493


https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5dc310 ... f49b955a10

They also have visions of Europe on the hdtracks site.

I’ve got to eventually get better speakers. But my Studio headphones and interface will be fine for now. Destiny is also on one of those sites.

[NeverendingAbyss]

I wonder who was second choice for vocalist after Dreamspace, and third choice for that matter.

I listened to Holy Land while driving back to campus. It's a solid album! Clean, curvy, and with lots of good rythm.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I wonder who was second choice for vocalist after Dreamspace, and third choice for that matter.

I listened to Holy Land while driving back to campus. It's a solid album! Clean, curvy, and with lots of good rythm.

Awesome, thanks for checking it out! At first, what I found most moving about Holy Land was the bombastic tracks like ZITO, Nothing to Say, Carolina IV, but now I find myself enjoying some of the more low key tunes like Deep Blue and Holy Land as well.

Angels Cry is not any less of an album either: its just not as cohesive.

The second choice for vocalist of Stratovarius (or rather, the only other choice) was Nils Patrik Johansson. Not very well known, perhaps best known for his time in Wuthering Heights.

But it became clear that he was not a standard power metal singer: more Dio than Kiske.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I like lots of type of stuff. Doesn’t have to be like a US riff oriented power metal sound.

This is something like I’d enjoy for symphonic type:

https://youtu.be/2GckrYjWsH4

That tune really resonated with me actually. Very epic and dramatic. I'm going to check out Dimmu Borgir. Heard their name a lot over the years but never gave them their due.

[SentineLEX]

Maybe I’m just leaning toward the more straight forward type of Episode songs when I’m thinking about my favorite power metal.
There is a time and place for it all. I’m sure they will try out different things eventually.

I mean, with the nightwish, I can also listen to the old stuff with the classic production that I love. It’s just that I prefer the Annette vocal style for some reason.

I think in my case I liked the more poppy sound she brought with her voice. Not to say I want the sound itself to go completely in the pop direction like she's doing with Jani, but Dark Passion Play was right around my ideal balance.

When I first got into Strato back in like 2009 or 10 I listened to Black Diamond, didn't like it, found Hunting High and Low, loved it, and ended up falling in love with Infinite in particular. So I guess I just like poppy metal

Are you into amazing quality audio? I’ve been looking for higher quality strato albums to buy. I found this and I’m excited to buy it:

https://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/22493

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5dc310 ... f49b955a10

They also have visions of Europe on the hdtracks site.

I’ve got to eventually get better speakers. But my Studio headphones and interface will be fine for now. Destiny is also on one of those sites.

Very much so! But I too need to get some better headphones in order to get a good listen.

I wonder who was second choice for vocalist after Dreamspace, and third choice for that matter.

I listened to Holy Land while driving back to campus. It's a solid album! Clean, curvy, and with lots of good rythm.

Awesome, thanks for checking it out! At first, what I found most moving about Holy Land was the bombastic tracks like ZITO, Nothing to Say, Carolina IV, but now I find myself enjoying some of the more low key tunes like Deep Blue and Holy Land as well.

Angels Cry is not any less of an album either: its just not as cohesive.

The second choice for vocalist of Stratovarius (or rather, the only other choice) was Nils Patrik Johansson. Not very well known, perhaps best known for his time in Wuthering Heights.

But it became clear that he was not a standard power metal singer: more Dio than Kiske.

What could have been

Vocals: Nils Patrik Johansson
Keys: Jens Johansson
Drums: Anders Johansson
Guitar: Timo Tolkki
Bass: Jari Behm

[robocop]

Which headphones are you interested in? Price range? Senheiser has always been a durable brand for me.

Now...of course there’s tip top pro ones. But I’m a broke bastard.
Do you have an audio interface?

Funny you mention the band with Jani. I seen some guy selling vinyl near me and in a mix of old records sealed there was that album!! Weird.

With pop infused...
I personally get bored to hell if I hear the verses with the plain ass beat and just a bass line over it.

[robocop]

I like lots of type of stuff. Doesn’t have to be like a US riff oriented power metal sound.

This is something like I’d enjoy for symphonic type:

https://youtu.be/2GckrYjWsH4

That tune really resonated with me actually. Very epic and dramatic. I'm going to check out Dimmu Borgir. Heard their name a lot over the years but never gave them their due.

Got another one for you.

https://youtu.be/d9EF5KABUm0

That Dimmu album had a older keyboard composer and is way more epic than any of their other albums imho. You may like others but that’s my fav.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I like lots of type of stuff. Doesn’t have to be like a US riff oriented power metal sound.

This is something like I’d enjoy for symphonic type:

https://youtu.be/2GckrYjWsH4

That tune really resonated with me actually. Very epic and dramatic. I'm going to check out Dimmu Borgir. Heard their name a lot over the years but never gave them their due.

Got another one for you.

https://youtu.be/d9EF5KABUm0

That Dimmu album had a older keyboard composer and is way more epic than any of their other albums imho. You may like others but that’s my fav.

That was pretty cool!!!!! I will check out the full album. Really mesmerizing.

[RazielSR]

Jaja!!

A "normal" conversation in stratoforum...wat????? Between robolol and A10!!!

[NeverendingAbyss]

Jaja!!

A "normal" conversation in stratoforum...wat????? Between robolol and A10!!!

Do you believe in hope and faith?

[RazielSR]

Jaja!!

A "normal" conversation in stratoforum...wat????? Between robolol and A10!!!

Do you believe in hope and faith?

Thanks to robo...yes!!